Party Wall Agreements????

Author
Discussion

Mark300zx

Original Poster:

1,353 posts

251 months

Sunday 2nd August 2015
quotequote all
I am getting some walls knocked down and steels installed, and I have been told I might need a PWA, the intrusion into the party wall seems minimal, what are the costs of getting one and what are the consequences if I don't?

Too Late

5,092 posts

234 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Mark300zx said:
I am getting some walls knocked down and steels installed, and I have been told I might need a PWA, the intrusion into the party wall seems minimal, what are the costs of getting one and what are the consequences if I don't?
Go online
Get a template
Download it
Both sign 2 copies.
Job done


alex_rsa

127 posts

198 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
...that is assuming you have a good relationship with your neighbour....

If not a Party Wall Surveyor is over £1k and in the worst case you can end up with 3 of them (one per party and a third to act independently).

It is not a legal requirement to have a PWA (last time I checked) but the idea is to protect both parties from being sued for damage which may/may not of been caused by the building work.

I am still waiting for the final inspection by the PWS but so far he has been pragmatic.


Alex

Harry Flashman

19,283 posts

241 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Are you sure it is not a legal requirement? As I understand it, it is, but the only way to enforce an infringement is to apply to a court for an injunction to prevent the work...

Watching this with interest, as I'll be needing one of these soon too. Going to start by introducing myself to the new neighbours and having a chat with them - the vendor says that they have a good relationship and that she will introduce us. Seems like a civilised way to start.

Too Late

5,092 posts

234 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Too Late said:
Mark300zx said:
I am getting some walls knocked down and steels installed, and I have been told I might need a PWA, the intrusion into the party wall seems minimal, what are the costs of getting one and what are the consequences if I don't?
Go online
Get a template
Download it
Both sign 2 copies.
Job done
Saying this, we did have a good relationship with out neighbour so it made this easy and cheap.
The quotes we got were closer to £1,500..

I used this website for help
http://www.mypropertyguide.co.uk/partywall/notice/...

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Harry Flashman said:
Are you sure it is not a legal requirement? As I understand it, it is, but the only way to enforce an infringement is to apply to a court for an injunction to prevent the work...
+1 and the advisory booklet agrees with you as well; from another thread:
anonymous said:
[redacted]

untruth

2,834 posts

188 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Yes, if you get on with your neighbour do as above and get a template online. It is free and it covers the basics unless it is complex.

We just did this with our neighbour who we don't know that well, but get along very well with. She was pretty overwhelmed when we took it around but a couple of days later she posted it through the door.

Generally speaking the line is that it makes it easier (and cheaper) for the both of you in the long run if you have it signed.


Legend83

9,947 posts

221 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
I just went through this and had the opposite of what TN is hoping for - my neighbour disputed the notice.

She also wanted her own party wall surveyor so I had to pay for two - £1,700 later...

One point to note - if your neighbour does dispute the notice bear in mind the delay it will cause to your works and keep the contractor informed so they don't decide to bugger off onto another job. Our PW process took best part of 4 weeks to process from dispute to award - you at risk if you touch the party wall in the interim.

I see you are based in London - PM me if you want a recommendation for a good value PW surveyor if you end up needing one.

L83

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
The remedy for work, or intended work, to a party wall that has not been agreed by an award is and injunction stopping the works to the wall and/or damages for any loss incurred.

Many party wall agreements, particularly on residential works, are quickly and simply agreed between the parties using standard pro-formae. In any event it is worth asking the adjoining owner if you can mutually agree the existing condition of the areas in their demise likely to be affected by the works so that, if there is any damage, it can be easily determined whether this was pre-existing or caused by your works. If the neighbours are in anyway awkward, the small amount of money spent in appointing surveyors is well worth it. You should note that 'the third surveyor' is a contingent appointment and only asked to act - and therefore get paid - if the surveyors acting for each owner cannot agree. In twenty-odd years in practice, I can count on the fingers of one hand that the third surveyor has been engaged and then always to determine the reasonableness of the adjoining owner's costs; never on anything technical.

In short, a simple, inexpensive process and nothing to be worried about.

Mark300zx

Original Poster:

1,353 posts

251 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Many thanks for all the repies, Mr Clapham strangely enough the property is in this area, would you like to give me a quote on costs if I forward you the plans?

Harry Flashman

19,283 posts

241 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
My prospective property is also in the area!

ClaphamGT3 could well be being pestered for quotes...

Mark300zx

Original Poster:

1,353 posts

251 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Maybe we should have a PH PWA meet at the windmill, stuff the cars biggrin

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
Thank you very much for the offer Mark but, because I only deal with commercial property professionally these days, I don't think I would be best placed to give you more than general guidance. If you are interested, I would be happy to PM you the details of reputable surveyors who practice in residential propert in SW London

dxg

8,125 posts

259 months

Monday 3rd August 2015
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It is possible to insure against that liability? Presumably for the duration of the works and then a few years afterwards.

If so, does anyone have any recommendations?

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Tuesday 4th August 2015
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Normally that insurance would be carried by the contractor. I suppose that the difficulty would be if the contractor went bump. I'd say most problems would occur within the first two years and you'd hope that the contractor is still around at that stage so the risk must be low meaning the insurance should be cheap.

Harry Flashman

19,283 posts

241 months

Tuesday 4th August 2015
quotequote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
Thank you very much for the offer Mark but, because I only deal with commercial property professionally these days, I don't think I would be best placed to give you more than general guidance. If you are interested, I would be happy to PM you the details of reputable surveyors who practice in residential propert in SW London
Yes please...?

And if you ever want a pint at the Windmill by way of payment for the recommendation, just shout.

puff

1 posts

85 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Hi am totally new to this so not even sure if this thread is still active? I wanted my own advice or support from others who have been through a dispute under the party wall act 1996. This is a very raw issue for me and dont know where to get the correct advise from.
We are planning to get a single storey kitchen extension build within permitted dev. We have send hand drawn plans to the local building control (oxford) if that helps? Which have been passed under building control regs. The guy at the planning dept says we are well within permitted dev rights and dont need planning permission. We went for a quote with a local builder he advised us to get a party wall act consent with the neighbour [semi detatched ] she wont sign it. Has got her dad involved who is an architect and he says we are in infridgement of the pdr! As such they wont sign the consent. To save a bit of cash we went with their agreed surveyor. Who asked for all the drawings and info we had so far. Fine all sent to him but his response is this is only building control approval. He needs a response from the planning department and a full copy of the plans we send them. We dont have such plans.. as we were told by building control that are plans have been approved. And there is no need for planning permission! I dont know how to respond to his letter? Surely he must have to provide me with a reason why he believes what the council planning dept have told us is not valid? Can i ask this aka what reasonable grounds does he have to dispute that we are within pdr? Please help.

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
In circumstances such as this you need to apply for a certificate of lawful development from your planning authority which confirms your right to exercise your permitted development entitlement.

An adjoining owner has no right per se under the PWA to prevent works to the party wall, only to not be disadvantaged by them. A good PWS or building surveyor with PWS knowledge will know how to act with an adjoining owner who seeks to frustrate your works. Bear in mind that the remedy for breach of the PWA is an injunction and, if they haven't adhered to the act, they are unlikely to get one - as any solicitor would advise them.

As the developing owner, you will have to pay for their PWS, who's fees should be reasonable. You will also need to appoint, on a contingent basis, a third surveyor who will adjudicate any disagreement between the two surveyors. They are only paid if they actually do any work

Harry Flashman

19,283 posts

241 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
quotequote all
By the way, as an update, we went through this process.

Our neighbours wished to use a surveyor rather than do a pro-forma and take our own photos. They also wanted one they had been recommended, rather than one provided by us. This was a bit more £100 or so more expensive, but I did not object.

The surveyor was excellent - courteous, thorough and professional, with great communication.

There was some slight damage to our neighbours' property, which we had our builders fix. As some of it was painting over some cracks that appeared (surface in paint only), we offered to, and did, paint their front room properly for them again. We are now about to rebuild the (about to fall down) party garden wall with them, sharing the costs.

Frankly we tried to be as reasonable as possible - they have put up with over a year of noise and dust, and have barely complained at all, and when they have, it was entirely reasonable. We have so far been lucky with them.

I think much depends on your neighbours - ours have turned out to be nice, reasonable people. But a good surveyor certainly smoothed the process and made everyone feel like their interests were being represented.

Edited by Harry Flashman on Thursday 23 February 15:20

Ej74

1,038 posts

184 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
quotequote all
We don't get on with our neighbour but they signed the party wall template I was supplied by the builder
Subsequently we had 9 complaints from the neighbour about damage and the construction
We have full plans and consent from the LA for PD

We addressed all the alleged issues - such as us building on their side of the property - its quite simple to see by eye, also a massive hole put in the party wall - it turned out to be a bit of mortar (1.5") put in the wall on their side that had blown out

The demand of damage to their bedroom wall I don't accept based on the fact we have had no damage to the adjoining wall - which was stripped back and plastered after the construction

My position is provide evidence of no damage prior to work commencing and the rooms have been plastered since construction (1960's houses)

I await a response from my neighbour....