4ft drain cover hinders my moat build
Discussion
Silent1 said:
Whilst we're on it why the f
k are all manholes in verges just dumped on top and not concreted it, every time I hit one cutting the verge I end up moving it off the hole completely, I can usually shove it back with the tractor but if I can't I've taken to calling BT, the water company or the power network to tell them about it, a lot of the time now they don't even dig down the surface access hatches for stopcock and just dump the whole thing on the earth so it stuck up a good 6 inches and isn't retained by anything 
In the case of surface water and foul sewerage manholes, it's generally a weak mortar, which gets weaker over time. k are all manholes in verges just dumped on top and not concreted it, every time I hit one cutting the verge I end up moving it off the hole completely, I can usually shove it back with the tractor but if I can't I've taken to calling BT, the water company or the power network to tell them about it, a lot of the time now they don't even dig down the surface access hatches for stopcock and just dump the whole thing on the earth so it stuck up a good 6 inches and isn't retained by anything Utility manholes, because they want to get away with as shallow a dig as possible, and they don't want to have to resort to metal detectors to find the manhole on ten years time when it's been buried under 8 inches of soil and bushes, like in the OP's case.
OpulentBob said:
... Utility manholes... they don't want to have to resort to metal detectors to find the manhole on ten years time when it's been buried under 8 inches of soil and bushes, like in the OP's case.
Or in my experience (10 years with a telecoms contractor), the inability to react by BT whenever their plant is discovered by builders and developers normally results in their plant just being buried because "if they can't be arsed...". So many times we ended up faffing about for hours on development sites with cable location kit because nobody bothered to mark or record where plant was 
. darren f said:
OpulentBob said:
... Utility manholes... they don't want to have to resort to metal detectors to find the manhole on ten years time when it's been buried under 8 inches of soil and bushes, like in the OP's case.
Or in my experience (10 years with a telecoms contractor), the inability to react by BT whenever their plant is discovered by builders and developers normally results in their plant just being buried because "if they can't be arsed...". So many times we ended up faffing about for hours on development sites with cable location kit because nobody bothered to mark or record where plant was . 
One memorable time, I found a 100mm duct, buried 200mm at the side of the road. Grey, plastic, about as obvious a BT duct as you could get. After a week of trying to get them out, and them refusing, saying "It's 100% not our duct, we have no plant there whatsoever, no point us coming" etc, I decided to take the edge of a shovel to it, busted it open only to find a lovely new length of fibre optic in it, with guess who's labels tied to it...
OpulentBob said:
One memorable time, I found a 100mm duct, buried 200mm at the side of the road. Grey, plastic, about as obvious a BT duct as you could get. After a week of trying to get them out, and them refusing, saying "It's 100% not our duct, we have no plant there whatsoever, no point us coming" etc, I decided to take the edge of a shovel to it, busted it open only to find a lovely new length of fibre optic in it, with guess who's labels tied to it...
Oh boy, did that bring back some bad memories! (I don't work with them anymore thankfully). The best of it is had you nicked that fibre with the edge of your shovel there'd have been 4 BT vans and 4 Network Managers there inside half a day and a month later you'd have gotten presented a bill for £20k (... "it's a fibre mate, we have to replace those in 2000m lengths" 
) darren f said:
OpulentBob said:
One memorable time, I found a 100mm duct, buried 200mm at the side of the road. Grey, plastic, about as obvious a BT duct as you could get. After a week of trying to get them out, and them refusing, saying "It's 100% not our duct, we have no plant there whatsoever, no point us coming" etc, I decided to take the edge of a shovel to it, busted it open only to find a lovely new length of fibre optic in it, with guess who's labels tied to it...
Oh boy, did that bring back some bad memories! (I don't work with them anymore thankfully). The best of it is had you nicked that fibre with the edge of your shovel there'd have been 4 BT vans and 4 Network Managers there inside half a day and a month later you'd have gotten presented a bill for £20k (... "it's a fibre mate, we have to replace those in 2000m lengths" ) 
You've had the 2000m length claptrap too!
OpulentBob said:
Silent1 said:
Whilst we're on it why the fk are all manholes in verges just dumped on top and not concreted it, every time I hit one cutting the verge I end up moving it off the hole completely, I can usually shove it back with the tractor but if I can't I've taken to calling BT, the water company or the power network to tell them about it, a lot of the time now they don't even dig down the surface access hatches for stopcock and just dump the whole thing on the earth so it stuck up a good 6 inches and isn't retained by anything
In the case of surface water and foul sewerage manholes, it's generally a weak mortar, which gets weaker over time. k are all manholes in verges just dumped on top and not concreted it, every time I hit one cutting the verge I end up moving it off the hole completely, I can usually shove it back with the tractor but if I can't I've taken to calling BT, the water company or the power network to tell them about it, a lot of the time now they don't even dig down the surface access hatches for stopcock and just dump the whole thing on the earth so it stuck up a good 6 inches and isn't retained by anything Utility manholes, because they want to get away with as shallow a dig as possible, and they don't want to have to resort to metal detectors to find the manhole on ten years time when it's been buried under 8 inches of soil and bushes, like in the OP's case.
although grip digging is worse as quite often they're less than an inch down and you hit it with the spinning drum...
I don't mean to sound all mumsnet but best to have 2 of you do the lifting when you do pop it, just in case. They're not THAT heavy but if you have to do some awkward manoeuvring then it's a lot easier. Also, lifting alone, when they swing and smack you in the shins it'll bloody hurt... 
OpulentBob said:
I don't mean to sound all mumsnet but best to have 2 of you do the lifting when you do pop it, just in case. They're not THAT heavy but if you have to do some awkward manoeuvring then it's a lot easier. Also, lifting alone, when they swing and smack you in the shins it'll bloody hurt...
Not mumsnet at all old chap. I value my intervertebral discs.I've bought these;
Plan is to tie them together when inserted in the cover using a tow rope then pull the cover off with the car.
Getting it back on may involve the use of an assistant.
(sucking eggs mode - apologies if you're a bit more knowledgeable than my following words assume!)
If you're planning to drag the frame and cover off in one, and if there is any mortar around the Base of the frame, chip as much away as you can first. It'll be a sand based mortar and will most likely be very weak by now.
Your initial post about having a mini digger would have probably been most effective - if jammed, the best way I've ever found is to lower the front blade and literally bulldoze the whole lot off. A tonne and a half of mini digger is plenty of force.
Be careful with the car/keys plan. The lugs on the keys aren't that big and can splay the holes in the lid out without too much effort (the water board won't thank you for it), the keys would then spring out and could hurt the car or you. You could also bend them, and lifting covers with bent keys is a pita. I've got a collection of bent keys which are only good for scrap! There looks like there may be enough clearance to lift them and get them out from under the fence panel - your assistant doesn't need to be strong to help, as said before its more for stability and manoeuvrability than brute force. If you have a good lady wife then she should be all the additional strength you need.
Again, apologies if this is all a bit obvious but having spent many a night finding and trying to get manholes up from strange places, sometimes the most obvious solutions aren't the wisest.
Good luck!
If you're planning to drag the frame and cover off in one, and if there is any mortar around the Base of the frame, chip as much away as you can first. It'll be a sand based mortar and will most likely be very weak by now.
Your initial post about having a mini digger would have probably been most effective - if jammed, the best way I've ever found is to lower the front blade and literally bulldoze the whole lot off. A tonne and a half of mini digger is plenty of force.
Be careful with the car/keys plan. The lugs on the keys aren't that big and can splay the holes in the lid out without too much effort (the water board won't thank you for it), the keys would then spring out and could hurt the car or you. You could also bend them, and lifting covers with bent keys is a pita. I've got a collection of bent keys which are only good for scrap! There looks like there may be enough clearance to lift them and get them out from under the fence panel - your assistant doesn't need to be strong to help, as said before its more for stability and manoeuvrability than brute force. If you have a good lady wife then she should be all the additional strength you need.
Again, apologies if this is all a bit obvious but having spent many a night finding and trying to get manholes up from strange places, sometimes the most obvious solutions aren't the wisest.
Good luck!
Sound advice and much appreciated.
Car would be the last resort, but potentially the most fun.
If it can't be lifted easily with assistance, then I may use my scaffold tower base to throw 2 tow ropes over (one on each key, keys firmly wedged in place with hardwood splints).
That would give me vertical lift from horizontal pulling.
The base isn't going to move - I've already tried a few heavy blows using a wooden block and a lumphammer.
Car would be the last resort, but potentially the most fun.
If it can't be lifted easily with assistance, then I may use my scaffold tower base to throw 2 tow ropes over (one on each key, keys firmly wedged in place with hardwood splints).
That would give me vertical lift from horizontal pulling.
The base isn't going to move - I've already tried a few heavy blows using a wooden block and a lumphammer.
Lifter keys arrived, evening sun shining, so playtime ....
1st step was to lock the keys into a wood block to ease lifting, get an edge up and secure
didn't need this baby
closer peek - can see a large surface water drainage pipe entering the manhole and the steps
stuck the camera in - possibly stones in there for a soakaway
I'll get an inspection lamp down there and take more piccies on Friday.
1st step was to lock the keys into a wood block to ease lifting, get an edge up and secure
didn't need this baby
closer peek - can see a large surface water drainage pipe entering the manhole and the steps
stuck the camera in - possibly stones in there for a soakaway
I'll get an inspection lamp down there and take more piccies on Friday.
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