Oil heating and water - options?
Discussion
Hi All,
We are very close to exchanging contracts on our new home. It is a large 1908 bungalow, which is in the countryside and has oil, with a large old floor standing boiler for the heating and hot water.
As this is our final move and there is going to be a comprehensive list of works, modernisation and a small extension, what are your thoughts on the best system for heating and hot water for the house, with oil?
1. Combi-oil fired boiler?
2. Mega-flow type system?
3. Stick with a similar system to what we have now, which is floor standing boiler with hot-water tank
Are there any other consideration that I should think about?
The property is 2500sq ft, with 3 bathrooms and kitchen, I also gather that the walls will not be very well insulated although we will upgrade the loft insulation.
IceBoy
We are very close to exchanging contracts on our new home. It is a large 1908 bungalow, which is in the countryside and has oil, with a large old floor standing boiler for the heating and hot water.
As this is our final move and there is going to be a comprehensive list of works, modernisation and a small extension, what are your thoughts on the best system for heating and hot water for the house, with oil?
1. Combi-oil fired boiler?
2. Mega-flow type system?
3. Stick with a similar system to what we have now, which is floor standing boiler with hot-water tank
Are there any other consideration that I should think about?
The property is 2500sq ft, with 3 bathrooms and kitchen, I also gather that the walls will not be very well insulated although we will upgrade the loft insulation.
IceBoy
IceBoy said:
1. Combi-oil fired boiler?
2. Mega-flow type system?
3. Stick with a similar system to what we have now, which is floor standing boiler with hot-water tank
All 3 will be a floor standing boiler in 99% of cases (you can get wall hung oil boilers, but they weigh a tonne and are huge). 2. Mega-flow type system?
3. Stick with a similar system to what we have now, which is floor standing boiler with hot-water tank
You can get external oil boilers, so the same thing sat outside on a base rather than inside. It might be green.
A Megaflo is pressurised, an unvented system. No cistern in the loft, but you require an incomming cold mains with a strong pressure and flow. Nice sysrem though.
If the water main doesn't meet standards, you'll have a choice of a low pressure system like you currently have by the sounds of it, or a combination boiler.
A combi is more suited to a 1 bathroom, low occupancy house in my view.
A combination boiler heats water and circulates it around your rads. It also heats your hot water as it flows through the boiler, like an electric shower. No cylinder.
A cylinder comes in two basic forms. Gravity fed (low pressure) or mains fed (high pressure).
A gravity fed cylinder is typically copper. Cold water fed from the mains to a cold water cistern. This water displaces the hot water in the cylinder when you open a hot tap via gravity. Showers may need noisey pumps.
A mains fed unvented cylinder which Megaflo is a brand of, works on mains water displacing the hot in the cylinder upon opening a tap. No loft tank. High pressure so no pumps needed.
Both cylinders are fed by a heat only boiler. So like a combi but without the hot water aspect built in.
There is a valve or two involved to divert the water heated by the boiler to the cylinder, the rads or both.
Both a combi and unvented cylinder have no backup upon a very rare water cut where as a loft tank would buffer this for the gravity system.
To make it easier. You've too many bathrooms to run a combi boiler. They can't really run more than one hot tap at once, so no showers while a hot tap is open elsewhere etc. There are some combi's which try to overcome this but....ignore the combi route.
An unvented cylinder is brill. But you need an incomming cold mains (kitchen cold tap) to have good flow and pressure. If it's crap, the cylinder won't have much to power it as it were.
So if an unvented system is out of the running due to your mains. Look at a gravity fed system. Tank in the loft. Copper cistern elsewhere (airing cupboard?). Showers will need a pump one way or another to get a 'good' shower. But a cylinder can feed multiple outlets at once.
A cylinder comes in two basic forms. Gravity fed (low pressure) or mains fed (high pressure).
A gravity fed cylinder is typically copper. Cold water fed from the mains to a cold water cistern. This water displaces the hot water in the cylinder when you open a hot tap via gravity. Showers may need noisey pumps.
A mains fed unvented cylinder which Megaflo is a brand of, works on mains water displacing the hot in the cylinder upon opening a tap. No loft tank. High pressure so no pumps needed.
Both cylinders are fed by a heat only boiler. So like a combi but without the hot water aspect built in.
There is a valve or two involved to divert the water heated by the boiler to the cylinder, the rads or both.
Both a combi and unvented cylinder have no backup upon a very rare water cut where as a loft tank would buffer this for the gravity system.
To make it easier. You've too many bathrooms to run a combi boiler. They can't really run more than one hot tap at once, so no showers while a hot tap is open elsewhere etc. There are some combi's which try to overcome this but....ignore the combi route.
An unvented cylinder is brill. But you need an incomming cold mains (kitchen cold tap) to have good flow and pressure. If it's crap, the cylinder won't have much to power it as it were.
So if an unvented system is out of the running due to your mains. Look at a gravity fed system. Tank in the loft. Copper cistern elsewhere (airing cupboard?). Showers will need a pump one way or another to get a 'good' shower. But a cylinder can feed multiple outlets at once.
Edited by Gingerbread Man on Wednesday 5th August 13:38
We moved into something similar, albeit older, 4 years ago.
Oil boiler was 40 years old and went pop (flooded the boiler room) the following year. We swapped for a secondhand 2008 Grant Utility Condensing boiler (cost £150 iirc) as we were advised that oil boilers have less things to go wrong than a typical gas combi.
We have since updated the rest of the system to include a 400L thermal store, which is also going to be fed by a multi fuel boiler stove this coming winter, so that might be worth a look. The thermal store feeds around 10-12 large double rads and 75m2 of UFH, then on the DHW side it feeds two en suites and a bathroom. All our water is at mains pressure, so the showers are really impressive. Need a 32mm incoming supply ideally though.
We pay around £800-£1200 per annum for oil, so not too bad for a early 18th century, 5 bed farmhouse to heat up.
We did look at going down the GSHP or pellet boiler route, but it didn't work out cost effective enough for us.
Oil boiler was 40 years old and went pop (flooded the boiler room) the following year. We swapped for a secondhand 2008 Grant Utility Condensing boiler (cost £150 iirc) as we were advised that oil boilers have less things to go wrong than a typical gas combi.
We have since updated the rest of the system to include a 400L thermal store, which is also going to be fed by a multi fuel boiler stove this coming winter, so that might be worth a look. The thermal store feeds around 10-12 large double rads and 75m2 of UFH, then on the DHW side it feeds two en suites and a bathroom. All our water is at mains pressure, so the showers are really impressive. Need a 32mm incoming supply ideally though.
We pay around £800-£1200 per annum for oil, so not too bad for a early 18th century, 5 bed farmhouse to heat up.
We did look at going down the GSHP or pellet boiler route, but it didn't work out cost effective enough for us.
Every oil combi that I have had in a particular property has been nothing but trouble. Every oil fired conventional boiler I have had has been OK. I currently have a 20 odd year old Trianco 28/32 that is doing my hot water and heating no problem and running at about 2500 litres per year.
Gingerbread Man said:
To make it easier. You've too many bathrooms to run a combi boiler. They can't really run more than one hot tap at once, so no showers while a hot tap is open elsewhere etc.
I disagree, I had a 32KW combi in my last house - 3 bathrooms.Yes it can't run two good showers at the same time - the question is - is that an issue ?
It never was for us - 2 adults, 2 kids.
V8RX7 said:
Gingerbread Man said:
To make it easier. You've too many bathrooms to run a combi boiler. They can't really run more than one hot tap at once, so no showers while a hot tap is open elsewhere etc.
I disagree, I had a 32KW combi in my last house - 3 bathrooms.Yes it can't run two good showers at the same time - the question is - is that an issue ?
It never was for us - 2 adults, 2 kids.
You've no backup if the boiler breaks. No hot water. Ideally you'd have at least one electric shower in the house as your backup for washing.
In bigger houses it can be nice to have a hot water loop which is possible with a cylinder.
I wouldn't advise to fit one in the situation, but have before when the customer is happy with their decision to.
Each to their own. Boilers aren't a concern for me now.
V8RX7 said:
Gingerbread Man said:
To make it easier. You've too many bathrooms to run a combi boiler. They can't really run more than one hot tap at once, so no showers while a hot tap is open elsewhere etc.
I disagree, I had a 32KW combi in my last house - 3 bathrooms.Yes it can't run two good showers at the same time - the question is - is that an issue ?
It never was for us - 2 adults, 2 kids.
Worth noting though, that oil combis have higher flow rates than their gas counterparts, as they store primary water to make hot tap water, rather than heating it instantaneously like a gas combo.
Being into home automation I can now put some actual figures around flow and pressure for a megaflow;
My static mains incoming pressure is around 55psi (measured at ground level). My hot water pressure which is after the pressure reducing valve and measured in the loft height is 36psi
(which means i have plenty of pressure in hand)
My shower flows around 15LPM and running a bath is around 21LPM
The pressure does drop when taps are flowing.
I'm also graphing the pressures, as they seem to vary slighty at different times of the day.
I live on a main road and I've got a new pipe from the stopcock.
My static mains incoming pressure is around 55psi (measured at ground level). My hot water pressure which is after the pressure reducing valve and measured in the loft height is 36psi
(which means i have plenty of pressure in hand)
My shower flows around 15LPM and running a bath is around 21LPM
The pressure does drop when taps are flowing.
I'm also graphing the pressures, as they seem to vary slighty at different times of the day.
I live on a main road and I've got a new pipe from the stopcock.
Rickyy said:
It is for many people. Another issue with combis, is that they are priority hot water, so if you have everyone showering in the mornings, that leaves little time for the heating to come on.
Worth noting though, that oil combis have higher flow rates than their gas counterparts, as they store primary water to make hot tap water, rather than heating it instantaneously like a gas combo.
I agree.Worth noting though, that oil combis have higher flow rates than their gas counterparts, as they store primary water to make hot tap water, rather than heating it instantaneously like a gas combo.
Though one other consideration with combis/system boilers is space. Decent sized hot water tanks take up room that some properties can ill afford.
That said, I would only ever put a combi in as a last resort.
We have an oil powered system boiler, gravity fed system. Pumped power showers (noise can be minimised and the pumps can often be housed "remotely").
I've considered ground source but I really don't think the numbers add up no matter how long you live! And am not convinced they suit older properties.
I live in a converted old barn and have oil boiler with mega flow system. Works really well and copes with multiple users at any one time.
As others have said check your water pressure before you make final choice.
Regarding oil boiler choice .. I have only ever seen floor mounted ones and a friend of mine has just had a new outdoor one fitted but I dont really see much benefit to the boiler being on the outside wall, especially as it gives off some heat itself which is then "wasted" outside. Maybe there are some other benefits such as gaining some space inside and if you dont have a utility/boiler room it can be noisy I guess to have in a kitchen for example.
As others have said check your water pressure before you make final choice.
Regarding oil boiler choice .. I have only ever seen floor mounted ones and a friend of mine has just had a new outdoor one fitted but I dont really see much benefit to the boiler being on the outside wall, especially as it gives off some heat itself which is then "wasted" outside. Maybe there are some other benefits such as gaining some space inside and if you dont have a utility/boiler room it can be noisy I guess to have in a kitchen for example.
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