Am I being mugged? Extra charges from the builder

[No Bend]

Fab32 said:

The only point I'm not happy with on the parts bill is the 650m of cable they are charging me for, everything else is fine.

Well, like a few other have said, over half a kilometre of cable does seem just a bit excessive. Have you pointed that measurement out to the builder?

[worsy]

Fab32 I got stung exactly the same by my builder's sparky. Original quote was to wire the house and we added more sockets, Cat6 etc. In the end we got a bill for labour which was 3 times the original quote. I think I had a thread on here about it. Ultimately the original quote looked on the low side and the final bill was a little toppy.

Apart from refusing to pay, going to court and waving good bye to any snagging all we could do was pay up.

[Royce44]

Ive fitted 22 downlights in a weekend and this was an existing house so floorboards up etc. 1 day to do the consumer unit. 1 day to wire the rest and say another day for testing. Add a 6th day for good measure and im still wondering where the other 5 days have gone?

Also agree on the cable usage, 6mm at 100m is suspect for sure.

[dav123a]

Not just the 6mm , he won't have used anywhere near a drum of 3 core. Sounds like they have billed you for all that cable then the part drums go in the van and to be used somewhere else. That said I would agree with others the bill seems a bit high but not crazy high.

[Gav147]

OP in your first post you say the builder quoted for the electrics at £1200 on initial plan. Now for a normal double garage, 5x5 room and staircase plus the board I would say he quoted you about spot on. However you then say you upped the plan with electrics to the point you have near as damn it as many sockets and lights as the average house.

What did you tell him to price for first off? It seems to me he priced for a normal install and you have changed it significantly and at least doubled the amount of work. I will say the Sparky's bill still seems over the top.

If it were me I would be getting the builder and sparky together on site and go over it with them.

Edited by Gav147 on Wednesday 26th August 20:43

[roofer]

Get him round to show you the 6mm cable. If he can't.....

[Murph7355]

You've left yourself in a very weak position by not insisting the extra work was also priced in the same way the original was. Changing scope through any project is usually the biggest cause of time and cost creep.

If you have a good relationship with the builder, and he with the electrician, ask them to pop round for a coffee to answer your queries. I'm sure they'll be able to justify their costs and the amount of product required. As mentioned by a previous poster you could also price up the materials costs yourself. Keep it civil, compliment them on their work etc.

But you're on the back foot and may end up needing to chalk it down to experience...the end price might not also be that bad!

[Spudler]

Murph7355 said:

I'm sure they'll be able to justify their costs and the amount of product required.

You reckon!

From the OPs brief the 96 hours alone needs some justifying.

As mentioned, get them both round and let them tell you where and why so much cable was used, especially the 6.

[shtu]

Fab32 said:

shtu said:

stuff

All points taken on board.

I have a breakdown of each individual part they have supplied and then a bill for 96 hours labour

The only point I'm not happy with on the parts bill is the 650m of cable they are charging me for, everything else is fine.

There are only 4 light switches one in the garage one the games room and two on the stairs (top and bottom).

how relevant is the comparison to a full house rewire? Given the fact that all the first fix was done when it was a shell so no access problems and the spot lights are not much over a meter apart?

I didn't mention a rewire, just normal first and second fix.

As mentioned, while the building is small on plan, the sheer number of fittings is easily comparable to a full house.

You can buy a 100m reel of 6mm for £90, so it's not exactly a massive part of the bill.

[Neil - YVM]

Spudler said:

Murph7355 said:

I'm sure they'll be able to justify their costs and the amount of product required.

You reckon!

From the OPs brief the 96 hours alone needs some justifying.

As mentioned, get them both round and let them tell you where and why so much cable was used, especially the 6.

An on site meet would prob be a good idea, and then calmly ask them to explain where the 6mm cable was used, where they managed to use 100mm of 3 and earth. (3+E will only be used for the switch drops for the lighting circuits.
And what exact dates where the 12 man days ?

The spark may well get defensive , but he will no doubt squirm knowing he is trying it on. Especially if his customer , ie the builder clocks that he is trying to have you both over.

[Sheepshanks]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

As there's so many sockets, I wonder if they've done something wacky like wired them in groups fed initially with 6mm from the board?

OP: How many socket circuits are there? If there are multiple, then might explain the amount of cable.


I have to say that charging £50 per socket seems fair enough if doing a couple of them but when doing lots there should some economy of scale - they'd only take a few mins each.

[Neil - YVM]

shtu said:

You can buy a 100m reel of 6mm for £90, so it's not exactly a massive part of the bill.

So its ok to be billed for best part of £100 for materials that have not been used?

[TA14]

Neil - YVM said:

shtu said:

You can buy a 100m reel of 6mm for £90, so it's not exactly a massive part of the bill.

So its ok to be billed for best part of £100 for materials that have not been used?

He's not saying that; he's saying that when a bill goes from £1,200 to £4,100 don't spend too much time worrying about where £90 has gone out of the £2,900 extra because it's only 3% of the increase.

[dazwalsh]

That's a steload of cable! They are taking the piss I reckon. If it were the rewire of the whole house I could understand that bill but not for two rooms and you funding the cost of lights and whatnot

[yellowtang]

All this talk of £50 per socket is irrelevant - they've billed him hourly.

As they've billed you for 96 hours and they were only there for two visits (days?) - I assume they had 5 men working each day. You must have an idea how many men were there each visit/day?

Regarding the cable, if what you say is correct then I can't see how they've used more than 1m of 6mm and as you only have 4 light switches I imagine they used no more than circa 20m of 3+earth.

They have been pretty rude/arrogant in charging you whole drums for each cable used. That alone makes me suspect that they've taken liberties with the labour as well.

I'd email these points to them/your builder and give them the opportunity to correct the bill. A face to face meeting will only make it more awkward for them to admit they've tried to rip you off.

[PH5121]

How long were the electricians on site and how many of them were there? 96 hours equates roughly to a couple of men for a full week. How local were they to you, if they spent a couple of hours a day getting to and from the job that time in the van will be included in your bill.

If they are charging for full drums even if they haven't used them it is a bit off side, unless they have left you a pile of part used coils in your garage.

Could they have looked at the materials installed and worked the labour cost backwards rather than based the cost on their time on site. If the 650m figure is wrong the labour cost would be wrong.

[Chris Type R]

yellowtang said:

They have been pretty rude/arrogant in charging you whole drums for each cable used. That alone makes me suspect that they've taken liberties with the labour as well.

Even if they have used some 6mm, it's certainly possibly to buy in shorter lengths from e.g. Screwfix.

If I'd paid for reels of cable, I'd expect them to leave the unused cable behind.

[Neil - YVM]

TA14 said:

Neil - YVM said:

shtu said:

You can buy a 100m reel of 6mm for £90, so it's not exactly a massive part of the bill.

So its ok to be billed for best part of £100 for materials that have not been used?

He's not saying that; he's saying that when a bill goes from £1,200 to £4,100 don't spend too much time worrying about where £90 has gone out of the £2,900 extra because it's only 3% of the increase.

The OP Fab32 has already stated that one aspect of the parts bill he is not happy with is the cable used, and as from the description of the works no 6mm cable has be used, then I would suggest that was a good place to start questioning?

[TA14]

Neil - YVM said:

TA14 said:

Neil - YVM said:

shtu said:

You can buy a 100m reel of 6mm for £90, so it's not exactly a massive part of the bill.

So its ok to be billed for best part of £100 for materials that have not been used?

He's not saying that; he's saying that when a bill goes from £1,200 to £4,100 don't spend too much time worrying about where £90 has gone out of the £2,900 extra because it's only 3% of the increase.

The OP Fab32 has already stated that one aspect of the parts bill he is not happy with is the cable used, and as from the description of the works no 6mm cable has be used, then I would suggest that was a good place to start questioning?

That's right: it's not OK and it's a good place to start. HTH

[netherfield]

End of the day you should have asked for a quote, an estimate leaves you stuffed.