Homebuyers Survey has found rising damp

[Galsia]

Hi guys,

I'm a first-time buyer and have just made an offer on terraced house built circa 1900. The Homebuyers Survey has found out the the property is suffering from rising damp.

Homebuyers Report said:

The property is considered to be a reasonable purchase at the agreed price of £***,*** provided that you are prepared to accept the cost and inconvenience of dealing with the various repair/improvement works reported. These deficiencies are quite common in properties of this age and type and as long as the necessary works are carried out to a satisfactory standard and the property is kept in good repair, we can see no reason why there should be any special difficulties on resale in normal market conditions.

Homebuyers Report said:

High damp meter readings were recorded under the staircase, in the kitchen and to chimney breasts at ground floor level. We believe this is the result of rising dampness. The chemical damp-proof course to the front of the property has been inserted above floor timbers.

Homebuyers Report said:

The levels of dampness encountered are not unusual in older properties even when a replacement damp course has been installed (chemical, mentioned above). Condensation can also be a factor. However, the possibility of future repairs cannot be discounted and this is therefore a risk to the property.

Homebuyers Report said:

We noted salt deposits, eroded mortar and high damp meter readings to the chimney breasts within the roof space.

Homebuyers Report said:

High damp meter readings were recorded in the understairs cupboard, in the kitchen and to chimney breasts as reported previously. The wall plaster in several rooms is blown/loose.

Homebuyers Report said:

Ventilation to the air space beneath the timber floor in the front living room is inadequate and appears to be partly blocked. We also noted a gap between the timber floor and skirting board, indicating the floor has suffered some settlement in the past.

This is serious and could lead to timber decay and damage to the property. This is a risk to the building, see Section J1.

As the sub-floor ventilation is inadequate the quality of support to the floor is suspect. The floor and other hidden areas in near proximity should be opened up and examined in more detail. Condition Rating 3. Further Investigation.

The house is in a flood-risk area and last flooded sometime in the 1960s. The council is about to start building flood defences so future flooding will not be an issue.

From having a quick Google, it appears that rising damp is pretty rare and might have been misdiagnosed.

It this something to worry about? I need a second opinion on it but if I get a damp-proofing company to have a look, they're going to find damp whether it is there or not, they are in it for the money afterall?

[Snake the Sniper]

The best bet is to lift a few floor boards (if possible) and see for sure what's going on under there. If it's flooded in the past and NOT dried out properly or dried out very slowly, it could be a rotten floor, especially if the air vents are blocked/partially blocked as that's what stops any condensation forming and then damaged the wood.
The high meter levels in the walls aren't possibly such an issue as old houses are supposed to get wet and then breathe/dry in a way that modern houses don't. More investigation would be needed here to say for sure either way.
The damp chimney in the loft could be a few different things, depending upon it's outer condition. It might need re-pointing, it could be fked, it could just be a loose or missing mortar bed/piece of lead.

[anonymous-user]

I bet it's not rising damp

[northwest monkey]

MonkeyMatt said:

I bet it's not rising damp

Agreed.

The last "survey" I paid for came up with the "potential rising damp" but only in one corner of the front room. It turned out the front garden had flags down & they had gone above the air brick so when it rained, water came straight in.

Took about 10 minutes to fix and about a week to dry out properly.

[Countdown]

Lots of houses in East Lancs are built using millstone grit. This has a high salt content and tends to suck up groundwater so a lot suffer from rising damp. Can be a PITA to fix - even chemical injection can be hit and miss.

[Paul Drawmer]

Galsia said:

The house is in a flood-risk area and last flooded sometime in the 1960s. The council is about to start building flood defences so future flooding will not be an issue.

In my opinion, this is a bigger issue, since flood risk areas tend to get bigger not smaller, and 'in the future' may be longer than currently planned.

Whilst the property is within a flood risk area, you will be restricted on getting flood cover insurance.

[Robertj21a]

I'd avoid it, too many potential problems.

[dingg]

use the report as a negotiating tool to get the price down

- there's probably nothing too much to be concerned about though

general surveyors arse covering bks IMO

[FailHere]

"The council is about to start building flood defences so future flooding will not be an issue."

Flood defences do not prevent flooding entirely, they just reduce the liklihood/frequency of flooding. All flood defences will have been designed to a standard of event that it should cope with. Nowhere is entirely without risk of flooding, although the types of flooding (fluvial, pluvial, sea, groundwater, to blocked drains/burst water mains) and liklihood (1 in 30, 1 in 100, 1 in 200, 1 in 1000) vary hugely. If the defences are designed to a 1 in 100 standard (plus an allowance for climate change) this means that there is a 1 in 100 chance in any year that the defence will be exceeded, not that it is safe for 100 years.

Rising damp in the areas mentioned is not that surprising as those areas probably did not benefit from the chemical damp-course especially if they adjoin other houses at those points, which may not have been treated or been treated at a different level. It looks like the one you are looking at has a suspended floor, is that also true for the adjoining houses as it was popular a while ago to rip them out and put a concrete slab down.

Edited by FailHere on Monday 31st August 17:24

[TorqueVR]

Rising damp has nothing to do with flood risk, so put the flood risk to one side. The surveyor seems to me (as another surveyor) to have given pretty straight advice. He's found some high damp meter readings, blown plaster and dodgy under-floor ventilation. He's brought it to your attention and has not apparently blown it up out of proportion. Give him a phone and have a chat and he'll probably fill in the blanks for you.

[Galsia]

First of all, thank you all for the replies. It is much appreciated! Obviously every house has it's faults but as a first-time buyer I haven't had a survey done before and the whole process is a little daunting.

Snake the Sniper said:

The best bet is to lift a few floor boards (if possible) and see for sure what's going on under there. If it's flooded in the past and NOT dried out properly or dried out very slowly, it could be a rotten floor, especially if the air vents are blocked/partially blocked as that's what stops any condensation forming and then damaged the wood.
The high meter levels in the walls aren't possibly such an issue as old houses are supposed to get wet and then breathe/dry in a way that modern houses don't. More investigation would be needed here to say for sure either way.
The damp chimney in the loft could be a few different things, depending upon it's outer condition. It might need re-pointing, it could be fked, it could just be a loose or missing mortar bed/piece of lead.

I agree that the next step is to get somebody to have a look under there. I'd be very surprised if there was any rot because the whole house feels absolutely solid. There is no creaking or movement of the floors at all. You never know though.

MonkeyMatt said:

I bet it's not rising damp

Maybe not. From what I gather, rising damp is incredibly rare and is usually indicated by a visible damp line not just a quick go with a damp meter.

northwest monkey said:

Agreed.

The last "survey" I paid for came up with the "potential rising damp" but only in one corner of the front room. It turned out the front garden had flags down & they had gone above the air brick so when it rained, water came straight in.

Took about 10 minutes to fix and about a week to dry out properly.

The areas that where highlighted were the chimney breasts and under the stairs (which in some houses on the estate leads to a basement but in this case has apparantly been filled in).

Paul Drawmer said:

In my opinion, this is a bigger issue, since flood risk areas tend to get bigger not smaller, and 'in the future' may be longer than currently planned.

Whilst the property is within a flood risk area, you will be restricted on getting flood cover insurance.

The council have got the funding and have proposed building a 2.5m wall around the estate which I think is overkill. It may take several years to complete but it will get done.

This estate has a 1/100 change of flooding every year apparantly.

dingg said:

use the report as a negotiating tool to get the price down

- there's probably nothing too much to be concerned about though

general surveyors arse covering bks IMO

Perhaps. I know that they have to cover their arses. This chap knows more about houses than I do though.

FailHere said:

"The council is about to start building flood defences so future flooding will not be an issue."

Flood defences do not prevent flooding entirely, they just reduce the liklihood/frequency of flooding. All flood defences will have been designed to a standard of event that it should cope with. Nowhere is entirely without risk of flooding, although the types of flooding (fluvial, pluvial, sea, groundwater, to blocked drains/burst water mains) and liklihood (1 in 30, 1 in 100, 1 in 200, 1 in 1000) vary hugely. If the defences are designed to a 1 in 100 standard (plus an allowance for climate change) this means that there is a 1 in 100 chance in any year that the defence will be exceeded, not that it is safe for 100 years.

Rising damp in the areas mentioned is not that surprising as those areas probably did not benefit from the chemical damp-course especially if they adjoin other houses at those points, which may not have been treated or been treated at a different level. It looks like the one you are looking at has a suspended floor, is that also true for the adjoining houses as it was popular a while ago to rip them out and put a concrete slab down.

Edited by FailHere on Monday 31st August 17:24

Yep, 1/100 as said above. All of the houses on this row of terraced houses are over 100 years old. It is in a conservation area so everyone at least appears to take pride in their houses from the outside. Inside thoughh is a different story.

TorqueVR said:

Rising damp has nothing to do with flood risk, so put the flood risk to one side. The surveyor seems to me (as another surveyor) to have given pretty straight advice. He's found some high damp meter readings, blown plaster and dodgy under-floor ventilation. He's brought it to your attention and has not apparently blown it up out of proportion. Give him a phone and have a chat and he'll probably fill in the blanks for you.

The surveyor seems like a decent guy. I'll have a chat with him tomorrow.

Phew, doing multiple quotes sucks.

[TA14]

Galsia said:

Yep, 1/100 as said above.

One other thing to bear in mind is that the chance is based on long term stats and recently (say the last ten years) climate change (whether you believe that it's man made or natural) has meant considerably worse and more frequent flooding so 1/100 should perhaps be read as say 1/35.

[FD3Si]

Another one for 'bet it's not rising damp'.
Check the outside gutters for leaks etc for starters - easy check.

Sounds very similar to our house TBH - we had a suspended floor that was basically completely rotten. Due to ventilation issues mainly, and lying very close to a flood risk area. We had a 20m2 floor which had 1 floor vent, and was mostly filled with rubble! Due to the construction of the rest of the house (1 side on to flag floor, 1/2 a side on to concrete floor, other 2 sides level with neighbour's property so couldn't install vents) we had to make the decision to rip the floor up and replace with a solid one. IIRC the total cost was about 2.5 to 3k for the work (but some other bits were done as well, and bits needed shoring up, mini digger needed hiring, needed digging out and then filling) And then floor was another 2.5k or so on top of that (engineered Oak).
That was 3 years ago, no problems since

[williredale]

Even if it is rising damp it's not that big a problem as it can be treated. Just keep on top of it and don't ignore it like my wife's grandmother did and it will be fine. Even if you do ignore it it will just cost more to fix.

[Galsia]

Finally got the damp guy in. It isn't rising damp but there is a problem with damp on the outside wall in the dining room.

He said that is isn't really a concern at the moment and that it would be many years before it needs doing. There is no sign of blown plaster or anything like that. He quoted £700 to fix it which would consist of stripping back the plaster to a height of 1 metre, putting a membrane in and then replastering.

Here is the room in question. Forgive the colour, it is being whitewashed as soon as I move in!



The thing is though, it is a lot of work and as the room is quite dark anway (its a small window but the room is south-facing) would it make more sense to take this opportunity to replace the window with a set of french doors instead? I presume the the remainder of the wall on either side would still need doing but the damp-proofing would cost less anyway because there would be less wall to do, right? I've got a mate who is a joiner/window fitter too.

Or is this just man maths?

[JimM169]

I'm no expert but I would have thought putting a membrane over the wall would only hide the issue and actually make things worse. If you're going to strip back to 1m I'd just replaster using lime plaster and allow the walls to breathe as intended.

This make interesting reading

http://www.heritage-house.org/managing-damp-in-old...

I've no connection with the above, it just seemed like sensible advice to me

[TA14]

If you're going to go ahead and buy the place at some stage you need to determine what is causing the damp. Initially you've got your survey which says that you need more ventilation:

Galsia said:

Homebuyers Report said:

The levels of dampness encountered are not unusual in older properties even when a replacement damp course has been installed (chemical, mentioned above). Condensation can also be a factor. However, the possibility of future repairs cannot be discounted and this is therefore a risk to the property. ... Ventilation to the air space beneath the timber floor in the front living room is inadequate and appears to be partly blocked. We also noted a gap between the timber floor and skirting board, indicating the floor has suffered some settlement in the past.

This is serious and could lead to timber decay and damage to the property. This is a risk to the building, see Section J1.

As the sub-floor ventilation is inadequate the quality of support to the floor is suspect. The floor and other hidden areas in near proximity should be opened up and examined in more detail. Condition Rating 3. Further Investigation.

And in my experience it's almost always a good move to also stop the ground water getting into the wall in the first place so put in a nice French drain to go with your French doors and a 6' width of paving sloping away from the house at least 6" below dpc.

[Galsia]

The specialist who visited after said that the ventilation is clean as a whislte (not in those words )

Ensuring that there is a place for run-off is a great idea though, thanks.

[TA14]

Galsia said:

The specialist who visited after said that the ventilation is clean as a whislte (not in those words )

Well who knows. It wouldn't stop me from buying the place; check that the air bricks are clear and that there are plenty of gaps in the dwarf walls. I can't see it being a big job unless someone has bodged in a concrete floor somewhere and in that case it's probably easier to install conc floors through out - unless the under floor space is unusually deep or you have cellars.

[C Lee Farquar]

Did the damp guy do a sub floor inspection?

The impact of damp and poor ventilation on the floor timbers is the critical issue, these can't be properly assessed without lifting a floorboard or two.