Renovation - what are your "must dos"
Discussion
Mobile Chicane said:
Harry Flashman said:
Some great points here. Still not sold on wet UFH due to cost of install and hassle, but then I like my old school-type tubular rads in raw metal finish, so radiators are a design feature for me.
Maybe for you. However enough PHers are saying that UFH would be a plus point for them. Listen to the advice you are being given here.
If it's for resale at any point, then you need to keep all decor and 'features' as neutral as possible. Personalise the place with well-chosen furniture and rugs which you can take with you.
It's cheap to install but eye-wateringly expensive to run and as a result I don't use it as much as I'd like and get cold feet in the winter.
- sigh*
AC43 said:
Mobile Chicane said:
Harry Flashman said:
Some great points here. Still not sold on wet UFH due to cost of install and hassle, but then I like my old school-type tubular rads in raw metal finish, so radiators are a design feature for me.
Maybe for you. However enough PHers are saying that UFH would be a plus point for them. Listen to the advice you are being given here.
If it's for resale at any point, then you need to keep all decor and 'features' as neutral as possible. Personalise the place with well-chosen furniture and rugs which you can take with you.
It's cheap to install but eye-wateringly expensive to run and as a result I don't use it as much as I'd like and get cold feet in the winter.
- sigh*
But this is a renovation, and the house has lovely original parquet floors, which I won't be replacing. Not suitable for UFH - except the tiled kitchen, where we will probably fit it. Bedrooms upstairs are not being touched for a while. I will fit it in the loft conversion though - 2 beds, a shower and dressing room going up there that could benefit from not having radiators...
Harry Flashman said:
AC43 said:
Mobile Chicane said:
Harry Flashman said:
Some great points here. Still not sold on wet UFH due to cost of install and hassle, but then I like my old school-type tubular rads in raw metal finish, so radiators are a design feature for me.
Maybe for you. However enough PHers are saying that UFH would be a plus point for them. Listen to the advice you are being given here.
If it's for resale at any point, then you need to keep all decor and 'features' as neutral as possible. Personalise the place with well-chosen furniture and rugs which you can take with you.
It's cheap to install but eye-wateringly expensive to run and as a result I don't use it as much as I'd like and get cold feet in the winter.
- sigh*
But this is a renovation, and the house has lovely original parquet floors, which I won't be replacing. Not suitable for UFH - except the tiled kitchen, where we will probably fit it. Bedrooms upstairs are not being touched for a while. I will fit it in the loft conversion though - 2 beds, a shower and dressing room going up there that could benefit from not having radiators...
Sadly the developer who did my current house ignored the original 30's parquet and lay cheap-looking laminate on top. We lifted some of the flooring recently and I couldn't believe he'd not tried to save it.
I'm effectively renovating a property that's just been done....
So I am stuck with the leccie UFH - far too much hassle and expense to retro fit water UFH, unfortuately.
But yes, leccie UFH makes sense in small areas like bathrooms and shower rooms
Harry Flashman said:
dxg said:
Any opinions on Honeywell's Evohome system? I'm giving it serious thought...
Me too - so opinions welcome!Any specific questions let me know and I'll ask him.
Blue Oval84 said:
Harry Flashman said:
dxg said:
Any opinions on Honeywell's Evohome system? I'm giving it serious thought...
Me too - so opinions welcome!Any specific questions let me know and I'll ask him.
Does the system satisfy the building regs for separate heating zones?
How noisy are the motorised radiator valves, and if noisy, can you disable individual ones at night time?
Can the control interface do anything apart from heating?
Harry Flashman said:
How easy is it to spec wet UFH in a loft conversion? Suspended wood floors (obviously with structural bracing etc...
Dead easy.You have metal plates between the joists that support the pipes and reflect the heat upwards, then you put your floor over the top.
I looked at it in depth while I was planning my renovation and discounted it though, it's quite expensive as these things go and I wasn't convinced they wouldn't be expensive to run. The systems quote 70w per square metre, which means you have to do the full area to get close to the output that you need to heat the room.
The two issues for me were:
The pipes aren't fully encased like they are when screeded over, so you have an immediate insulator in the air gap that's left.
On top of that you end up putting an inch of chipboard over the top, another insulator, then unless you tile you've got a wooden floor or carpet on top of that which is further insulation.
Yes you have some thermal mass and a lot of the heat hits the room eventually, but you have to heat the floor before the room starts to warm up and then the room will continue to keep you warm long after you've gone to bed.
I think under-floor in general will work out more costly to run because you end up keeping the house a lot warmer (due to the thermal mass effect) when you're not in the house. If you're out at work most of the day and need quick heat then the radiators are going to be more efficient.
That's what I ended up doing, and then added woodburner(s) for heat when you're in for a long time and let the heat soak upwards to keep the bedrooms at a nice temperature.
NorthDave said:
Bill said:
Add a 5 amp lighting circuit to living rooms.
This is a good one if not going with a lighting control system. Switched from the main room switches at the doorway obviously!
paulrockliffe said:
Dead easy.
You have metal plates between the joists that support the pipes and reflect the heat upwards, then you put your floor over the top.
I looked at it in depth while I was planning my renovation and discounted it though, it's quite expensive as these things go and I wasn't convinced they wouldn't be expensive to run. The systems quote 70w per square metre, which means you have to do the full area to get close to the output that you need to heat the room.
The two issues for me were:
The pipes aren't fully encased like they are when screeded over, so you have an immediate insulator in the air gap that's left.
On top of that you end up putting an inch of chipboard over the top, another insulator, then unless you tile you've got a wooden floor or carpet on top of that which is further insulation.
Yes you have some thermal mass and a lot of the heat hits the room eventually, but you have to heat the floor before the room starts to warm up and then the room will continue to keep you warm long after you've gone to bed.
I think under-floor in general will work out more costly to run because you end up keeping the house a lot warmer (due to the thermal mass effect) when you're not in the house. If you're out at work most of the day and need quick heat then the radiators are going to be more efficient.
That's what I ended up doing, and then added woodburner(s) for heat when you're in for a long time and let the heat soak upwards to keep the bedrooms at a nice temperature.
Very helpful, thanks.You have metal plates between the joists that support the pipes and reflect the heat upwards, then you put your floor over the top.
I looked at it in depth while I was planning my renovation and discounted it though, it's quite expensive as these things go and I wasn't convinced they wouldn't be expensive to run. The systems quote 70w per square metre, which means you have to do the full area to get close to the output that you need to heat the room.
The two issues for me were:
The pipes aren't fully encased like they are when screeded over, so you have an immediate insulator in the air gap that's left.
On top of that you end up putting an inch of chipboard over the top, another insulator, then unless you tile you've got a wooden floor or carpet on top of that which is further insulation.
Yes you have some thermal mass and a lot of the heat hits the room eventually, but you have to heat the floor before the room starts to warm up and then the room will continue to keep you warm long after you've gone to bed.
I think under-floor in general will work out more costly to run because you end up keeping the house a lot warmer (due to the thermal mass effect) when you're not in the house. If you're out at work most of the day and need quick heat then the radiators are going to be more efficient.
That's what I ended up doing, and then added woodburner(s) for heat when you're in for a long time and let the heat soak upwards to keep the bedrooms at a nice temperature.
Harry Flashman said:
Thanks:
Does the system satisfy the building regs for separate heating zones?
How noisy are the motorised radiator valves, and if noisy, can you disable individual ones at night time?
Can the control interface do anything apart from heating?
I'd also like to know if there is any way to interface with it using an external home automation controller? Does it have some kind of API? I'd like to be able to trigger heating on and off based on events rather than just a timer.Does the system satisfy the building regs for separate heating zones?
How noisy are the motorised radiator valves, and if noisy, can you disable individual ones at night time?
Can the control interface do anything apart from heating?
WET Underfloor heatings.
Vera Edge - Controlling Home Automation
2 power circuits, one for critical always on, the other of off
Centralized hoover
Hot air circulation system
Home automation lights, security, firealarm, water alarm, home irrigation
Air conditioning.
LED lighting
Cat6 throughout
Comms room for all the Cat6 to trace back to
Coaxil locations
CCTV
UPS to power CCTV, ADSL, CCTV
I installed about 700m of Cat6, i don't think i installed enough in my build
Vera Edge - Controlling Home Automation
2 power circuits, one for critical always on, the other of off
Centralized hoover
Hot air circulation system
Home automation lights, security, firealarm, water alarm, home irrigation
Air conditioning.
LED lighting
Cat6 throughout
Comms room for all the Cat6 to trace back to
Coaxil locations
CCTV
UPS to power CCTV, ADSL, CCTV
I installed about 700m of Cat6, i don't think i installed enough in my build
Re loft and UFH.
We've recently done a two bed/ one bathroom loft extension in an Edwardian house in London and eventually went the route of one tall but slender wall mounted rad ( a bit like this http://www.bathempire.com/radiators/vertical-radia... that we hung behind the bedroom doors at the end of a wardrobe run. This didn't impinge on the usable floor space and still chucks out more than enough heat. As the top of the house is very well insulated now, the biggest issue is keeping it cool as all the heat in the house rises up there.
We have electric underfloor heating in the bathroom and an electric towel rail, but to be honest the UFH is off for 90% of the year as the little towel rail produces loads of heat on its own.
We've recently done a two bed/ one bathroom loft extension in an Edwardian house in London and eventually went the route of one tall but slender wall mounted rad ( a bit like this http://www.bathempire.com/radiators/vertical-radia... that we hung behind the bedroom doors at the end of a wardrobe run. This didn't impinge on the usable floor space and still chucks out more than enough heat. As the top of the house is very well insulated now, the biggest issue is keeping it cool as all the heat in the house rises up there.
We have electric underfloor heating in the bathroom and an electric towel rail, but to be honest the UFH is off for 90% of the year as the little towel rail produces loads of heat on its own.
red_slr said:
I heard they weren't up to much.NorthDave said:
Harry Flashman said:
I've been thinking about home automation. It seems reasonably useful, but to me seems rather expensive (Control4 etc) for what you get - but is it a valuable investment, and how disruptive is it to do it when you are already chasing walls and ripping things out? And what can you really automate? Given the usefulness of wifi apps and home devices these days, is there really any need to?
What else are things you would do (or indeed have done) that you are glad you did. Or did you fail to do something you should have done?
Regardless of whether you go for a full home automation system I would make sure the house is wired right. Things like wiring correctly for TVs in the right places, audio round the house will cost peanuts to cable yet leave your options open. If you were so minded you could design the wiring yourself - there have been loads of threads in the past about how to wire - some make more sense than others. If not you could get an AV Consultant to do the designs for you.What else are things you would do (or indeed have done) that you are glad you did. Or did you fail to do something you should have done?
Kitchen and conservatory are having wet UFH, as the floors had to come up anyway for various reasons.
While I did not go for full home automation, I will be trying the newer Lightwave RF light switches to see if they are OK. Installing 50+ ECOLed ZEP1 dimmable LEDs around the place, after much helpful advice from PH's own E36Guy and various reviews from people who have put them in.
Have paid huge attention to wiring and cabling, as a few have suggested. New sockets in may places, lighting plan (task, mood, security), and data - lots of data. I was originally going to rely on wifi, but with all the walls out this seemed a bit shortsighted for the minimal cost at that stage of running data cables. So Cat 6a cable, 2 per room, with 6 to reception rooms and TV room, and an extra 2 on the kitchen island. Seems like a lot, but you run one cable to a location, you may as well run a few.
Similar story with ceiling speakers - we have wired for them where ceilings have been down. We likely won't use them all, as a Bluesound multiroom active speaker system will likely be where the money goes - but the wiring is there, as it cost beans to do.
Trying to find a decent wireless sensor alarm. A lot easier than chasing walls for wiring where I do not have to. Any recommendations? Keypad controlled would be fine, I will not be using mobile phone apps control, due to some fundamental security issues with doing so that no alarm company seems to have sorted out. And even remotes seem to lack basic anti-grab technology...
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