First time refurbishment 1960's flat
Discussion
So thankfully I've now sold my current flat. Following 12 months of near constant annoyance with daily antisocial behavior, neighborly DV and the theft of my motorbike a few months back, mostly documented here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gAssing/topic.asp?h=0&a... the flat is now sold STC.
After much searching I've found somewhere new. Its on a nice, quiet, well-to-do private road and is currently only a 1 bedroom flat (I intend to change this) but it gets me out....
Currently in Legals which should be done in the next few weeks and then the fun begins!
I'm ok with most aspects of DIY (doing a few bits where I am now) but this is another level. The flat is an executor sale with all that it entails, avocado bathroom, 25 year old boiler, carpets, kitchen etc. but has been well maintained. I'll get some of the photo's up asap but need to start planning the refurbishment now as I'd have to do the work before moving in for my girlfriends sanity and to avoid the hassle/procrastination factor when you're living in it (plus its a good motivation to get out of the GF's parents sooner!)
Thankfully all walls are stud's which makes layout changes easier but with moving walls around it adds a further layer of complexity.
Its currently a big 1 bed (just under 600 sqft) and the plan is to completely reconfigure the space (who needs 2 bathrooms & 3 storage cupboards in a 1 bedroom flat?) to make the most of it, adding a second bedroom along the way.
Current:
Planned:
Some challenges remain - Swapping the bathroom and kitchen over shouldn't be too difficult but need to:
- Fit a 'false' wall to the lower part of the (full height) window in what will be the main bedroom whilst keeping it looking like a full window externally (some sort of vinyl then insulate to level inside, plasterboard and add a faux cill?)
- Get a plumber in to add rad's to the new bedroom and add a new boiler to the existing system - maybe move rad's but this should be easier when the studs are fully exposed and in position - in effect 1st Fix
- Get a plasterer in to skim the ceilings (spots) and the new plasterboard stud walls
- Get a sparky in to wire the new circuits for the bed 2 sockets, add a few in other rooms (lacking), wire the kitchen hob & oven (plus mood lighting?) and wire for ceiling spotlights
- keep the water connection in the hall cupboard and buy a stacker unit so the washing machine & tumble dryer are out of the way and quiet (I will sound insulate).
Then its just the normal kitchen/bathroom fitting, tiling and floor laying that I intend to do myself...
Any pointers for a relative novice?
As I'm currently at the planning stage I'm trying to absorb as much information as possible so I can get going on the work immediately, without forgetting anything now that I'll later forget!
I'll do my upmost to keep this thread updated as we go along - think I'm going to be knackered by the end of it!
I'm also aiming to do it as cost effectively as possible because A, I'm broke and B, I'm tight.....hoping I can sort it for <£10-12k? (any good 0% balance transfer cards going?
)
Kitchen:
We were thinking DIY kitchens for the units and then sourcing appliances/worktops/lighting separately?
Mood lighting - would it be worth the sparky wiring a couple of plugs hidden behind the units at skirting level for transformers and then wiring this circuit to a bank of the main light switch? (double)
Best place for the mood lighting? - under cabinets top and bottom
Internal Doors - who is best for these?
Window:
What would you use to keep it looking like a window externally (can't alter) yet looking like a normal wall and half height window internally? (the fake cill would be matched to the height of the split half way up the current floor - ceiling window)
Bathroom:
Power shower - any recommended make?
Boiler - I presume that a combi is the way to go - again any recommendations?
Tiles - I presume that travertine is fairly uniform by supplier and price is the main comp (local discount store/topps/tile mountain)
Flooring:
Presume that solid oak or at least engineered is the best way to go here? - bathroom is tiled and bedrooms carpeted so its just for the living areas?
Sound insulation -
What is best to use - only so we can't hear the washing machine!
After much searching I've found somewhere new. Its on a nice, quiet, well-to-do private road and is currently only a 1 bedroom flat (I intend to change this) but it gets me out....
Currently in Legals which should be done in the next few weeks and then the fun begins!
I'm ok with most aspects of DIY (doing a few bits where I am now) but this is another level. The flat is an executor sale with all that it entails, avocado bathroom, 25 year old boiler, carpets, kitchen etc. but has been well maintained. I'll get some of the photo's up asap but need to start planning the refurbishment now as I'd have to do the work before moving in for my girlfriends sanity and to avoid the hassle/procrastination factor when you're living in it (plus its a good motivation to get out of the GF's parents sooner!)
Thankfully all walls are stud's which makes layout changes easier but with moving walls around it adds a further layer of complexity.
Its currently a big 1 bed (just under 600 sqft) and the plan is to completely reconfigure the space (who needs 2 bathrooms & 3 storage cupboards in a 1 bedroom flat?) to make the most of it, adding a second bedroom along the way.
Current:
Planned:
Some challenges remain - Swapping the bathroom and kitchen over shouldn't be too difficult but need to:
- Fit a 'false' wall to the lower part of the (full height) window in what will be the main bedroom whilst keeping it looking like a full window externally (some sort of vinyl then insulate to level inside, plasterboard and add a faux cill?)
- Get a plumber in to add rad's to the new bedroom and add a new boiler to the existing system - maybe move rad's but this should be easier when the studs are fully exposed and in position - in effect 1st Fix
- Get a plasterer in to skim the ceilings (spots) and the new plasterboard stud walls
- Get a sparky in to wire the new circuits for the bed 2 sockets, add a few in other rooms (lacking), wire the kitchen hob & oven (plus mood lighting?) and wire for ceiling spotlights
- keep the water connection in the hall cupboard and buy a stacker unit so the washing machine & tumble dryer are out of the way and quiet (I will sound insulate).
Then its just the normal kitchen/bathroom fitting, tiling and floor laying that I intend to do myself...
Any pointers for a relative novice?
As I'm currently at the planning stage I'm trying to absorb as much information as possible so I can get going on the work immediately, without forgetting anything now that I'll later forget!
I'll do my upmost to keep this thread updated as we go along - think I'm going to be knackered by the end of it!
I'm also aiming to do it as cost effectively as possible because A, I'm broke and B, I'm tight.....hoping I can sort it for <£10-12k? (any good 0% balance transfer cards going?
)Kitchen:
We were thinking DIY kitchens for the units and then sourcing appliances/worktops/lighting separately?
Mood lighting - would it be worth the sparky wiring a couple of plugs hidden behind the units at skirting level for transformers and then wiring this circuit to a bank of the main light switch? (double)
Best place for the mood lighting? - under cabinets top and bottom
Internal Doors - who is best for these?
Window:
What would you use to keep it looking like a window externally (can't alter) yet looking like a normal wall and half height window internally? (the fake cill would be matched to the height of the split half way up the current floor - ceiling window)
Bathroom:
Power shower - any recommended make?
Boiler - I presume that a combi is the way to go - again any recommendations?
Tiles - I presume that travertine is fairly uniform by supplier and price is the main comp (local discount store/topps/tile mountain)
Flooring:
Presume that solid oak or at least engineered is the best way to go here? - bathroom is tiled and bedrooms carpeted so its just for the living areas?
Sound insulation -
What is best to use - only so we can't hear the washing machine!
Looks an interesting project, and can see how the new design would work quite nicely. Can I ask why you have decided against opening the lounge to the balcony and having the only access via the bedroom? To me, it's asking for a set of folding doors to the balcony from the lounge.
Only other comment is regarding the flooring, in that I'd go for engineered wood as it is more stable in a kitchen environment.
Only other comment is regarding the flooring, in that I'd go for engineered wood as it is more stable in a kitchen environment.
Thanks for the suggestion, think it's a little more cost effective too and every little helps!
That would definitely be the optimum solution, however being in a block I'd have to get freeholder permission as it changes the external aesthetic and is think the cost would be prohibitive?
That would definitely be the optimum solution, however being in a block I'd have to get freeholder permission as it changes the external aesthetic and is think the cost would be prohibitive?
Today's thoughts/pricing up surrounds the bathroom...
L-Shaped bath, sink/cabinet & bog are easily found thankfully, however we are wanting a power shower.
With a new combi boiler in a cupboard behind where the shower will be it makes sense to go with a concealed system, given the space available.
As we'll be doing away with a tank We'll need it to be electric and ideally powerful - whats the recommended system to go for? - do they do this or is it a case of looking at a pump, heater, head, controls etc separately?
L-Shaped bath, sink/cabinet & bog are easily found thankfully, however we are wanting a power shower.
With a new combi boiler in a cupboard behind where the shower will be it makes sense to go with a concealed system, given the space available.
As we'll be doing away with a tank We'll need it to be electric and ideally powerful - whats the recommended system to go for? - do they do this or is it a case of looking at a pump, heater, head, controls etc separately?
kiethton said:
What is best to use - only so we can't hear the washing machine!
Unless you move the door to the kitchen off the hallway so you can seal it off, no amount of sound insulation will prevent you from hearing the washing machine with the current open to the lounge layout you have in mind 
Total floor area is ~575 sqft
Bed 1 will be ~ 3.4m x 3.8m
Bed 2 will be ~ 3.4m x 2.6m
Kitchen will be ~ 2.7m x 2.5m (no door)
Reception will be ~4.8m long and between ~2.7 and ~4.0m wide depending on where abouts you are in it
So all rooms are a fair size but not huge, efinately bigger than most flats on the market.
We do really need the second room for now and the future, initially as a guest bedroom & home office for me.
In the future we intend to hold onto it as a BTL when we eventually move on. As a 2 bed it would add ~£250pm to the rent in this location (£1,100pm 1 bed, £1,350pm 2 bed) but shorter-term we'll be remortgaging, so as a 2 bed it'll be worth ~18% more and therefore drop us into a far lower mortgage rate in a few months time, our way of trying to scale that ladder I guess.
Bed 1 will be ~ 3.4m x 3.8m
Bed 2 will be ~ 3.4m x 2.6m
Kitchen will be ~ 2.7m x 2.5m (no door)
Reception will be ~4.8m long and between ~2.7 and ~4.0m wide depending on where abouts you are in it
So all rooms are a fair size but not huge, efinately bigger than most flats on the market.
We do really need the second room for now and the future, initially as a guest bedroom & home office for me.
In the future we intend to hold onto it as a BTL when we eventually move on. As a 2 bed it would add ~£250pm to the rent in this location (£1,100pm 1 bed, £1,350pm 2 bed) but shorter-term we'll be remortgaging, so as a 2 bed it'll be worth ~18% more and therefore drop us into a far lower mortgage rate in a few months time, our way of trying to scale that ladder I guess.
Edited by kiethton on Friday 18th September 13:02
It's a good concept, but I'd mirror it around a centre line.
Leave the bathroom where it is, but rotate it so instead of the current long and thin, it is short and fat. This should enable you to make two bedrooms out of the increased space in the current one. The reason for this is moving soil stacks for toilers is a big job and very hard to do successfully.
You can then remove the second toiler and expand the kitchen into this space. This way, you also have balcony access from the lounge, which is how it will get most use.
Leave the bathroom where it is, but rotate it so instead of the current long and thin, it is short and fat. This should enable you to make two bedrooms out of the increased space in the current one. The reason for this is moving soil stacks for toilers is a big job and very hard to do successfully.
You can then remove the second toiler and expand the kitchen into this space. This way, you also have balcony access from the lounge, which is how it will get most use.
Megaflow said:
It's a good concept, but I'd mirror it around a centre line.
Leave the bathroom where it is, but rotate it so instead of the current long and thin, it is short and fat. This should enable you to make two bedrooms out of the increased space in the current one. The reason for this is moving soil stacks for toilers is a big job and very hard to do successfully.
You can then remove the second toiler and expand the kitchen into this space. This way, you also have balcony access from the lounge, which is how it will get most use.
You'd then loose the window for the second bedroom unless I'm mis-understanding?Leave the bathroom where it is, but rotate it so instead of the current long and thin, it is short and fat. This should enable you to make two bedrooms out of the increased space in the current one. The reason for this is moving soil stacks for toilers is a big job and very hard to do successfully.
You can then remove the second toiler and expand the kitchen into this space. This way, you also have balcony access from the lounge, which is how it will get most use.
Very good point above about the soil pipe above though, everything in the second diagram in the bathroom can be re-organised to keep that toilet pretty close to where it is now which helps
The kitchen hobs were just to get the approx width of units, even for a porker like me that'd be too much!
kiethton said:
Today's thoughts/pricing up surrounds the bathroom...
L-Shaped bath, sink/cabinet & bog are easily found thankfully, however we are wanting a power shower.
With a new combi boiler in a cupboard behind where the shower will be it makes sense to go with a concealed system, given the space available.
As we'll be doing away with a tank We'll need it to be electric and ideally powerful - whats the recommended system to go for? - do they do this or is it a case of looking at a pump, heater, head, controls etc separately?
If you have good water pressure and a combi that can heat it sufficiently, you'll find a normal shower sufficient. Remember a combi heats water on demand, so the water will flow as fast as mains pressure will allow.L-Shaped bath, sink/cabinet & bog are easily found thankfully, however we are wanting a power shower.
With a new combi boiler in a cupboard behind where the shower will be it makes sense to go with a concealed system, given the space available.
As we'll be doing away with a tank We'll need it to be electric and ideally powerful - whats the recommended system to go for? - do they do this or is it a case of looking at a pump, heater, head, controls etc separately?
Also - listen to the advice re: soil stacks; it might not be possible to fit a new one in your block which then puts you into the realm of the Saniflow. You really, really don't want to head in that direction.....
The Moose said:
kiethton said:
Bed 1 will be ~ 3.4m x 3.8m
Bed 2 will be ~ 3.4m x 2.6m
How will both bedrooms have one length of 3.4m when they're rather different on the drawing?!Bed 2 will be ~ 3.4m x 2.6m
Bed 1 will be ~ 3.4m x 3.6m
Bed 2 will be ~ 2.6m x 3.2m
Good advice re combi boiler above.
Also, I would keep the small loo. This means that someone can go to the loo whilst the bathroom is being used: trust me, this is a good thing. For a tiny WC, loos are available with a built-in basin on top to save space. Hardly amazing design, but fairly practical.
It also means you could if you wished to avoid having a loo in the new bathroom, meaning more space, meaning a spa-like bathroom with both bath and a walk-in shower enclosure, rather than having to shower in the tub.
Also, I would keep the small loo. This means that someone can go to the loo whilst the bathroom is being used: trust me, this is a good thing. For a tiny WC, loos are available with a built-in basin on top to save space. Hardly amazing design, but fairly practical.
It also means you could if you wished to avoid having a loo in the new bathroom, meaning more space, meaning a spa-like bathroom with both bath and a walk-in shower enclosure, rather than having to shower in the tub.
zollburgers said:
I think 3 cookers in a kitchen that size and a separate built in cooker in its own room is a bit much personally.
Can you do this?
|http://thumbsnap.com/JEEtsMsa[/url]
Good idea, although wouldn't the reception then become a little too small/lack the airiness?Can you do this?
|http://thumbsnap.com/JEEtsMsa[/url]Edited by zollburgers on Friday 18th September 13:14
Harry Flashman said:
Good advice re combi boiler above.
Also, I would keep the small loo. This means that someone can go to the loo whilst the bathroom is being used: trust me, this is a good thing. For a tiny WC, loos are available with a built-in basin on top to save space. Hardly amazing design, but fairly practical.
It also means you could if you wished to avoid having a loo in the new bathroom, meaning more space, meaning a spa-like bathroom with both bath and a walk-in shower enclosure, rather than having to shower in the tub.
At the risk of this becoming a mutual backslapping session; This is also good advice, if you live with a member of the opposite sex who likes making a simple wash last an entire evening, a separate loo is invaluable.Also, I would keep the small loo. This means that someone can go to the loo whilst the bathroom is being used: trust me, this is a good thing. For a tiny WC, loos are available with a built-in basin on top to save space. Hardly amazing design, but fairly practical.
It also means you could if you wished to avoid having a loo in the new bathroom, meaning more space, meaning a spa-like bathroom with both bath and a walk-in shower enclosure, rather than having to shower in the tub.
Nothing sours a relationship faster than last night's curry permeating 'the sanctuary'.
I'll speak to the GF re. the separate toilet, I can see the benefit but to date she has been dead against it when viewing other places prior...
re. the boiler and washer dryer etc. there is a separate cupboard - boiler within the bathroom (not shown but in bottom right of plan), washer and dryer (stacked) in the cupboard, hopefully with space for an ironing board
re. the boiler and washer dryer etc. there is a separate cupboard - boiler within the bathroom (not shown but in bottom right of plan), washer and dryer (stacked) in the cupboard, hopefully with space for an ironing board
kiethton said:
Total floor area is ~575 sqft
Bed 1 will be ~ 3.4m x 3.8m
Bed 2 will be ~ 3.4m x 2.6m
Kitchen will be ~ 2.7m x 2.5m (no door)
Reception will be ~4.8m long and between ~2.7 and ~4.0m wide depending on where abouts you are in it
So all rooms are a fair size but not huge, efinately bigger than most flats on the market.
We do really need the second room for now and the future, initially as a guest bedroom & home office for me.
In the future we intend to hold onto it as a BTL when we eventually move on. As a 2 bed it would add ~£250pm to the rent in this location (£1,100pm 1 bed, £1,350pm 2 bed) but shorter-term we'll be remortgaging, so as a 2 bed it'll be worth ~18% more and therefore drop us into a far lower mortgage rate in a few months time, our way of trying to scale that ladder I guess.
How big is your new bathroom? Its looks problematic to meBed 1 will be ~ 3.4m x 3.8m
Bed 2 will be ~ 3.4m x 2.6m
Kitchen will be ~ 2.7m x 2.5m (no door)
Reception will be ~4.8m long and between ~2.7 and ~4.0m wide depending on where abouts you are in it
So all rooms are a fair size but not huge, efinately bigger than most flats on the market.
We do really need the second room for now and the future, initially as a guest bedroom & home office for me.
In the future we intend to hold onto it as a BTL when we eventually move on. As a 2 bed it would add ~£250pm to the rent in this location (£1,100pm 1 bed, £1,350pm 2 bed) but shorter-term we'll be remortgaging, so as a 2 bed it'll be worth ~18% more and therefore drop us into a far lower mortgage rate in a few months time, our way of trying to scale that ladder I guess.
I am not expert on rents, but looking at investment properties to buy this year it was apparent that there was little to no premium on flats where an extra bedroom had so obviously been shoehorned into a 1 bedroom flat. The negatives caused outweighed the extra bedroom. OUr search suggested that £ per square foot price was pretty constant regardless of number of bedrooms.
This was London so may not be directly relevant, but just a point to note.
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