First time refurbishment 1960's flat
Discussion
blindswelledrat said:
kiethton said:
Total floor area is ~575 sqft
Bed 1 will be ~ 3.4m x 3.8m
Bed 2 will be ~ 3.4m x 2.6m
Kitchen will be ~ 2.7m x 2.5m (no door)
Reception will be ~4.8m long and between ~2.7 and ~4.0m wide depending on where abouts you are in it
So all rooms are a fair size but not huge, efinately bigger than most flats on the market.
We do really need the second room for now and the future, initially as a guest bedroom & home office for me.
In the future we intend to hold onto it as a BTL when we eventually move on. As a 2 bed it would add ~£250pm to the rent in this location (£1,100pm 1 bed, £1,350pm 2 bed) but shorter-term we'll be remortgaging, so as a 2 bed it'll be worth ~18% more and therefore drop us into a far lower mortgage rate in a few months time, our way of trying to scale that ladder I guess.
How big is your new bathroom? Its looks problematic to meBed 1 will be ~ 3.4m x 3.8m
Bed 2 will be ~ 3.4m x 2.6m
Kitchen will be ~ 2.7m x 2.5m (no door)
Reception will be ~4.8m long and between ~2.7 and ~4.0m wide depending on where abouts you are in it
So all rooms are a fair size but not huge, efinately bigger than most flats on the market.
We do really need the second room for now and the future, initially as a guest bedroom & home office for me.
In the future we intend to hold onto it as a BTL when we eventually move on. As a 2 bed it would add ~£250pm to the rent in this location (£1,100pm 1 bed, £1,350pm 2 bed) but shorter-term we'll be remortgaging, so as a 2 bed it'll be worth ~18% more and therefore drop us into a far lower mortgage rate in a few months time, our way of trying to scale that ladder I guess.
I am not expert on rents, but looking at investment properties to buy this year it was apparent that there was little to no premium on flats where an extra bedroom had so obviously been shoehorned into a 1 bedroom flat. The negatives caused outweighed the extra bedroom. OUr search suggested that £ per square foot price was pretty constant regardless of number of bedrooms.
This was London so may not be directly relevant, but just a point to note.
Checked and it does seem to be a bedroom thing although not may have marked floorplans/total sqft but:
There are hardly any 1 bed's on the market on the road and the one parallel- only a couple of dilapidated small ones (~450sqft) @ ~1k pm
Fair number of 2 beds, ranging from £1,200 to £1650pm, more expensive was a lot bigger and to a very high standard, cheapest would be a similar size but delapidated.
hornetrider said:
In the new layout, are you keeping it open and effectively the two bedrooms open off the lounge? I think that's a bit odd.
In a way, table outside the kitchen would create a 'soft' corridor? either that or could keep a wall/half wall but then its a bit enclosed and not maximising the space kiethton said:
There are hardly any 1 bed's on the market on the road and the one parallel- only a couple of dilapidated small ones (~450sqft) @ ~1k pm
Fair number of 2 beds, ranging from £1,200 to £1650pm, more expensive was a lot bigger and to a very high standard, cheapest would be a similar size but delapidated.
Doesn't that make my point?Fair number of 2 beds, ranging from £1,200 to £1650pm, more expensive was a lot bigger and to a very high standard, cheapest would be a similar size but delapidated.
Dilapidated 1 bedroom = £1k per month. One in reasonable state, therefore, would be £1200+ per month?
2 beds ranging from £1200 and it is likely yours will be in that bottom bracket because of a tiny bathroom and bedroom?
Im just guessing - it's just something to bear in mind when you are costing up the conversion as to whether you are actually better off having a decent 1 bedroom flat or a very compromised 2 bedroom flat that has cost a lot of money to convert.
Looking again, if you want to keep the costs down then switching the bathroom and kitchen around is not the best option.
Personally I would want access to the balcony off the lounge rather than the bedroom so if you have people over and its a nice day/evening you can get to it without going through the bedroom. Same if you wanted to get drinks, dinner from the kitchen onto the balcony as well.
Why not something like this (in a crude MS Paint fashion) and then split the bedroom into two as its long enough to do that?
Edit: I found the original advert as well. I would post it to give a better impression of the rooms, current state but better to ask first
Personally I would want access to the balcony off the lounge rather than the bedroom so if you have people over and its a nice day/evening you can get to it without going through the bedroom. Same if you wanted to get drinks, dinner from the kitchen onto the balcony as well.
Why not something like this (in a crude MS Paint fashion) and then split the bedroom into two as its long enough to do that?
Edit: I found the original advert as well. I would post it to give a better impression of the rooms, current state but better to ask first
Edited by KTF on Friday 18th September 14:45
My guess is that his current priority is to maximise the future value of the flat, and whilst I agree about the balcony, I don't think it has much relevance to that.
Keithton, to simplify everything, why not just swap the bedroom with the lounge, halve the lounge without encroaching on the kitchen?
You would be left with one bedroom of 11x10 which is a reasonable size and another of perhaps 8x10 (allowing for a corridor to the second bedroom) which is small but fine.
THat will have cost next to nothing to do and achieved exactly what you are trying to achieve anyway?
Keithton, to simplify everything, why not just swap the bedroom with the lounge, halve the lounge without encroaching on the kitchen?
You would be left with one bedroom of 11x10 which is a reasonable size and another of perhaps 8x10 (allowing for a corridor to the second bedroom) which is small but fine.
THat will have cost next to nothing to do and achieved exactly what you are trying to achieve anyway?
Thanks, sounds like a good idea...
Like this but with the kitchen/bathroom in the same places? - This was a previous version and I'd just stripped the corridor out.
Although we plan to live here for a few years final value is the most important consideration and on sale values a 2 bed would see an extra £50k over a 1 bed, even if of similar size (a 2 bed built on the same total footprint but differently orientated in the same building that sold for over £75k more).
For the sake of a couple of £K would it be worth swapping the two over to keep the kitchen and the reception together, away from the bedroom?
Like this but with the kitchen/bathroom in the same places? - This was a previous version and I'd just stripped the corridor out.
Although we plan to live here for a few years final value is the most important consideration and on sale values a 2 bed would see an extra £50k over a 1 bed, even if of similar size (a 2 bed built on the same total footprint but differently orientated in the same building that sold for over £75k more).
For the sake of a couple of £K would it be worth swapping the two over to keep the kitchen and the reception together, away from the bedroom?
The kitchen is going to be very dark. No windows and furthest away from the light source.
Id rather have a window in the kitchen than the bathroom as it will get used more.
I realise its not to scale but there seems to be a lot of wasted space in the bathroom as well. Take the cupboard out the way and you could make the second bedroom bigger with access to the bathroom where the cupboard currently is.
Id rather have a window in the kitchen than the bathroom as it will get used more.
I realise its not to scale but there seems to be a lot of wasted space in the bathroom as well. Take the cupboard out the way and you could make the second bedroom bigger with access to the bathroom where the cupboard currently is.
You've not mentioned it and it doesn't say on the advert, but is it leasehold or freehold? If leasehold, the type of thing you are talking about (adding a bedroom and moving walls) can be tricky to get permission for.
I am involved in the refurb of a 1500sq ft 1 bed flat at the moment that has been rumbling on for almost 3 years because the freeholders are refusing permission to turn it into a 2 bed. It has sat stripped out and empty for that entire time whilst they argue back and forth via lawyers.
I am involved in the refurb of a 1500sq ft 1 bed flat at the moment that has been rumbling on for almost 3 years because the freeholders are refusing permission to turn it into a 2 bed. It has sat stripped out and empty for that entire time whilst they argue back and forth via lawyers.
^^^^
That's it, I think it's early 70's based on remaining lease length.
Kitchen, would be like the one in our current place which stayed pretty light despite having no windows (but was closer to one). The plan is to get downlights in all rooms then add the undercounter and under wallcabinet lights, which, with the cooker hood should be good enough?
That's it, I think it's early 70's based on remaining lease length.
Kitchen, would be like the one in our current place which stayed pretty light despite having no windows (but was closer to one). The plan is to get downlights in all rooms then add the undercounter and under wallcabinet lights, which, with the cooker hood should be good enough?
jke11y said:
You've not mentioned it and it doesn't say on the advert, but is it leasehold or freehold? If leasehold, the type of thing you are talking about (adding a bedroom and moving walls) can be tricky to get permission for.
I am involved in the refurb of a 1500sq ft 1 bed flat at the moment that has been rumbling on for almost 3 years because the freeholders are refusing permission to turn it into a 2 bed. It has sat stripped out and empty for that entire time whilst they argue back and forth via lawyers.
Thankfully its a share of F/Hold & remainder of 999 year leaseI am involved in the refurb of a 1500sq ft 1 bed flat at the moment that has been rumbling on for almost 3 years because the freeholders are refusing permission to turn it into a 2 bed. It has sat stripped out and empty for that entire time whilst they argue back and forth via lawyers.
Put bed 2 where the kitchen is, you could nobble a bit of the lounge for a built in cupboard to help the small room then have an L shaped kitchen in the lounge. You could if you wanted move the WC door round and create a "double box" or figure 8 room for bed 2, OR move the WC across the hall to the cupboards where it'll use existing soil stack and amake bigger room that way (could move hall cupboard to internal wall between bed 2/lounge)
Doing the above would be less work, leave you the original bigger/better shaped lounge and bed 1, and give you 2 doors of separation between beds/living/bathroom which is much better.
Don't underestimate the usefullness of large inbuilt cupboards in a small flat
Doing the above would be less work, leave you the original bigger/better shaped lounge and bed 1, and give you 2 doors of separation between beds/living/bathroom which is much better.
Don't underestimate the usefullness of large inbuilt cupboards in a small flat
hairyben said:
Put bed 2 where the kitchen is, you could nobble a bit of the lounge for a built in cupboard to help the small room then have an L shaped kitchen in the lounge. You could if you wanted move the WC door round and create a "double box" or figure 8 room for bed 2, OR move the WC across the hall to the cupboards where it'll use existing soil stack and amake bigger room that way (could move hall cupboard to internal wall between bed 2/lounge)
MS Paint version of the above(ish) 
If you're getting tradesmen in to do all this, it'll cost an arm and a leg. As already suggested, soil pipe resiting is difficult and expensive unless you're doing it yourself. Same goes for the kitchen - if you're a Part P fan I'd try and keep cooker movement about as far as the existing cable will stretch. Hob - gas or elec? Either will cost £££ to move.
Stud walls - but 70's build may well mean they also do a bit of supporting - worth checking what happens to the ceiling joists over those walls - they may not support anything apart from the ceiling but they may also have a joint over the walls. Unless it's concrete beam/block floors? If it is concrete 60/70s build, running new cables and pipes will be difficult as there's no voids anywhere. It's leasehold - check with solicitor if you can do this stuff without asking l-holders permission/paying through the nose for approval.
If you're wanting to rent it out in the future just keep it simple - 8' sqr bed 2 off reception lit by the smaller recep window - but only add it if you think the figures stack up, enlarge kitchen sideways into wc space if you want, cupboard behind f door into utility space (easy plumbing/waste to bathroom other side of wall). That lot will keep you busy for a while, and be a lot cheaper than moving everything in the flat that happens to have a wire or a pipe sticking out of it
Stud walls - but 70's build may well mean they also do a bit of supporting - worth checking what happens to the ceiling joists over those walls - they may not support anything apart from the ceiling but they may also have a joint over the walls. Unless it's concrete beam/block floors? If it is concrete 60/70s build, running new cables and pipes will be difficult as there's no voids anywhere. It's leasehold - check with solicitor if you can do this stuff without asking l-holders permission/paying through the nose for approval.
If you're wanting to rent it out in the future just keep it simple - 8' sqr bed 2 off reception lit by the smaller recep window - but only add it if you think the figures stack up, enlarge kitchen sideways into wc space if you want, cupboard behind f door into utility space (easy plumbing/waste to bathroom other side of wall). That lot will keep you busy for a while, and be a lot cheaper than moving everything in the flat that happens to have a wire or a pipe sticking out of it
Having converted a studio to a one bed; it is not as easy as you say.
I used to work for a developer and bought already converted, rented straight away and applied for permission to be classified as one bed, not easy... got there in the end, solicitor costs to me were £5k uplift in value was much more.
I used to work for a developer and bought already converted, rented straight away and applied for permission to be classified as one bed, not easy... got there in the end, solicitor costs to me were £5k uplift in value was much more.
Thanks for all of the pointers all
This was our preferred layout:
and it should be an awful lot less work and not compramise the living space...it is all, however, dependent on being able to get the water and waste connection from the current kitchen (through the wall)
This was our preferred layout:
and it should be an awful lot less work and not compramise the living space...it is all, however, dependent on being able to get the water and waste connection from the current kitchen (through the wall)
Edited by kiethton on Thursday 24th September 18:50
And with exchange hopefully happening this week (yes 14 weeks so far...) I though that I'd better update this.
I've been back to the flat, made some minor alterations to prior plans and have marked the location of the services on the below image (water - blue, gas - red), drains are in various places along bottom wall...
Now the decision, given our fondness for cooking is the trade-off between breakfast bar (with extra cupboard/worktop space - yellow bold block) and a freestanding dining table as I don't think both will fit with our sofa in...
I've been back to the flat, made some minor alterations to prior plans and have marked the location of the services on the below image (water - blue, gas - red), drains are in various places along bottom wall...
Now the decision, given our fondness for cooking is the trade-off between breakfast bar (with extra cupboard/worktop space - yellow bold block) and a freestanding dining table as I don't think both will fit with our sofa in...
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