Any disadvantages to installing a smart electricity meter?
Discussion
I'm in the middle of a house refurb, including a full electrical rewire.
Ideally, I'd like to move the existing analogue meter to a new location (approx 1m higher), and was thinking to go for a new smart meter as part of the works.
The simple question is are there any disadvantages to swapping over?
Ideally, I'd like to move the existing analogue meter to a new location (approx 1m higher), and was thinking to go for a new smart meter as part of the works.
The simple question is are there any disadvantages to swapping over?
Benefits: You can see what you're spending. Turn something off. Bill goes down.
Downside: They want to be able to charge you more, during peak periods. Cheaper than building power stations.
I'm sure they will be mandatory within a few years. But anything with 'smart' or 'strategic' in it's name probably isn't.
Downside: They want to be able to charge you more, during peak periods. Cheaper than building power stations.
I'm sure they will be mandatory within a few years. But anything with 'smart' or 'strategic' in it's name probably isn't.
Eric The Camel said:
Have a read of the draft proposals for SMETS2 (Smart Metering Equipment Technical Specifications).
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Particularly section 5, ESME Load limiting (5.5.6) and half hourly tariff changing (5.5.8).
Yeah I know someone involved in the role out of these meters.https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Particularly section 5, ESME Load limiting (5.5.6) and half hourly tariff changing (5.5.8).
Energy usage is the least of my worries !
They can addle your brain , imagined or otherwise
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
Sorry I've not read this yet but the headline doesn't sound promising:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
its going to cost 11bn to roll out the smart meter system by 2020.
who is going to pay this cost - clue, look in the mirror .
Pointless costly exercise IMO and hopefully it'll get squashed at some stage.
Wake up people, these meters are only being fitted to allow Power Companies to eventually charge different rates for different times of the day.
Once the meters are in, a power company will be able to tell when, during the day or night, you are using most gas or electricity and charge accordingly.
Power will be cheaper from say nine o'clock in the evening and through the night but God help us when we switch on our central heating at breakfast time when the cost may have trebled.
Just refuse to have these meters fitted in your homes, these power companies aren't doing this without expecting to make a huge profit eventually.
who is going to pay this cost - clue, look in the mirror .
Pointless costly exercise IMO and hopefully it'll get squashed at some stage.
Wake up people, these meters are only being fitted to allow Power Companies to eventually charge different rates for different times of the day.
Once the meters are in, a power company will be able to tell when, during the day or night, you are using most gas or electricity and charge accordingly.
Power will be cheaper from say nine o'clock in the evening and through the night but God help us when we switch on our central heating at breakfast time when the cost may have trebled.
Just refuse to have these meters fitted in your homes, these power companies aren't doing this without expecting to make a huge profit eventually.
Edited by dingg on Wednesday 25th November 21:19
Edited by dingg on Wednesday 25th November 21:21
As above - industry work on (or used to) pool pricing - kwh price changes half hourly.
With a smart meter, tracking those changes in price and charging accordingly will be easy in the future.
Then there's the potential to limit your usage or switch you off altogether - not sure if current smart meters can do this?
Mobile phone signals are used for comms at quite a high level if you're in a poor signal area - no thanks.
Cost - again, as above, the consumer will ultimately pay for the installation.
Once you have one, afaik you can't get rid of it and go back to non-smart. That, for me, is enough to want to avoid the things - if an existing smart meter can't load shed or limit, it'll be swapped out for one that can when the final few powerstations are part ex'd for some more windmills.
I'm not paranoid by any means, but do I want the staff of a call centre halfway round the world knowing what time I usually cook tea? No ta.
Go buy an owl meter
With a smart meter, tracking those changes in price and charging accordingly will be easy in the future.
Then there's the potential to limit your usage or switch you off altogether - not sure if current smart meters can do this?
Mobile phone signals are used for comms at quite a high level if you're in a poor signal area - no thanks.
Cost - again, as above, the consumer will ultimately pay for the installation.
Once you have one, afaik you can't get rid of it and go back to non-smart. That, for me, is enough to want to avoid the things - if an existing smart meter can't load shed or limit, it'll be swapped out for one that can when the final few powerstations are part ex'd for some more windmills.
I'm not paranoid by any means, but do I want the staff of a call centre halfway round the world knowing what time I usually cook tea? No ta.
Go buy an owl meter
So many half-truths, so little time.
1) Energy companies haven't ever pressed the government to roll these things out, the business case is negative, they're doing it because they have to.
2) Time of Use pricing is made possible by the Smart meter, but it's not mandatory. In the UK we don't have a network that lends itself to this (no A/C and relatively high gas C/H usage), the main benefit of Time of Use will be for those with night storage heating (obviously), Electric cars, and at some point in the future, potentially smart appliances that switch on themselves. If managed correctly then TOU has the potential to help smooth out network demand without affecting the end user in any noticeable way, which is good for us all as it means we don't need to pay to upgrade the network as much, just use what we have more efficiently. Not sure why this would be a bad thing?
3) The "call centre staff in a far off land" can't see your usage unless you give permission. The data is stored in the meter and the supplier only gets one reading a month unless you give permission for more regular reads. Quite frankly, even if my supplier could see my usage in real time I'm unsure why this would interest them, I get home and turn the oven on at roughly the same time as the rest of the country. Big deal.
4) They don't irradiate your brain.
5) Load limiting and disconnection are features in the meters, suppliers aren't legally allowed to use them unless you're on a Prepayment tariff anyway (meaning that if you pay for your energy, you'll never know those features are there). If they need to cut you off under a rota disconnection due to power shortages then they can and will do this whether you have a Smart meter or not.
1) Energy companies haven't ever pressed the government to roll these things out, the business case is negative, they're doing it because they have to.
2) Time of Use pricing is made possible by the Smart meter, but it's not mandatory. In the UK we don't have a network that lends itself to this (no A/C and relatively high gas C/H usage), the main benefit of Time of Use will be for those with night storage heating (obviously), Electric cars, and at some point in the future, potentially smart appliances that switch on themselves. If managed correctly then TOU has the potential to help smooth out network demand without affecting the end user in any noticeable way, which is good for us all as it means we don't need to pay to upgrade the network as much, just use what we have more efficiently. Not sure why this would be a bad thing?
3) The "call centre staff in a far off land" can't see your usage unless you give permission. The data is stored in the meter and the supplier only gets one reading a month unless you give permission for more regular reads. Quite frankly, even if my supplier could see my usage in real time I'm unsure why this would interest them, I get home and turn the oven on at roughly the same time as the rest of the country. Big deal.
4) They don't irradiate your brain.
5) Load limiting and disconnection are features in the meters, suppliers aren't legally allowed to use them unless you're on a Prepayment tariff anyway (meaning that if you pay for your energy, you'll never know those features are there). If they need to cut you off under a rota disconnection due to power shortages then they can and will do this whether you have a Smart meter or not.
Blue Oval84 said:
So many half-truths, so little time.
1) Energy companies haven't ever pressed the government to roll these things out, the business case is negative, they're doing it because they have to.
I'm glad someone mentioned that one. Whatever your views you better get used to it, as pointed out numerous times the meter isn't your property so if you are that set against it all your lights will be going out anyway.1) Energy companies haven't ever pressed the government to roll these things out, the business case is negative, they're doing it because they have to.
"We aim for all homes and small businesses to have smart meters by 2020. Energy suppliers will be required to install smart meters and take all reasonable steps to install them for everybody.
Consumers with smart meters will be offered an in-home display (IHD) that lets them see how much energy they are using and what it will cost. This will let them have more control over their energy use and help them save energy and money.
Between now and 2020 energy suppliers will be responsible for replacing over 53 million gas and electricity meters. This will involve visits to 30 million homes and small businesses.
Most householders will have smart meters installed by their energy supplier between 2016 and 2020, although some energy companies are starting to install smart meters now."
In the days of "climate change" I very much doubt this will be back tracked.
Consumers with smart meters will be offered an in-home display (IHD) that lets them see how much energy they are using and what it will cost. This will let them have more control over their energy use and help them save energy and money.
Between now and 2020 energy suppliers will be responsible for replacing over 53 million gas and electricity meters. This will involve visits to 30 million homes and small businesses.
Most householders will have smart meters installed by their energy supplier between 2016 and 2020, although some energy companies are starting to install smart meters now."
In the days of "climate change" I very much doubt this will be back tracked.
Blue Oval84 said:
So many half-truths, so little time.
1) Energy companies haven't ever pressed the government to roll these things out, the business case is negative, they're doing it because they have to.
2) Time of Use pricing is made possible by the Smart meter, but it's not mandatory. In the UK we don't have a network that lends itself to this (no A/C and relatively high gas C/H usage), the main benefit of Time of Use will be for those with night storage heating (obviously), Electric cars, and at some point in the future, potentially smart appliances that switch on themselves. If managed correctly then TOU has the potential to help smooth out network demand without affecting the end user in any noticeable way, which is good for us all as it means we don't need to pay to upgrade the network as much, just use what we have more efficiently. Not sure why this would be a bad thing?
3) The "call centre staff in a far off land" can't see your usage unless you give permission. The data is stored in the meter and the supplier only gets one reading a month unless you give permission for more regular reads. Quite frankly, even if my supplier could see my usage in real time I'm unsure why this would interest them, I get home and turn the oven on at roughly the same time as the rest of the country. Big deal.
4) They don't irradiate your brain.
5) Load limiting and disconnection are features in the meters, suppliers aren't legally allowed to use them unless you're on a Prepayment tariff anyway (meaning that if you pay for your energy, you'll never know those features are there). If they need to cut you off under a rota disconnection due to power shortages then they can and will do this whether you have a Smart meter or not.
I like you.1) Energy companies haven't ever pressed the government to roll these things out, the business case is negative, they're doing it because they have to.
2) Time of Use pricing is made possible by the Smart meter, but it's not mandatory. In the UK we don't have a network that lends itself to this (no A/C and relatively high gas C/H usage), the main benefit of Time of Use will be for those with night storage heating (obviously), Electric cars, and at some point in the future, potentially smart appliances that switch on themselves. If managed correctly then TOU has the potential to help smooth out network demand without affecting the end user in any noticeable way, which is good for us all as it means we don't need to pay to upgrade the network as much, just use what we have more efficiently. Not sure why this would be a bad thing?
3) The "call centre staff in a far off land" can't see your usage unless you give permission. The data is stored in the meter and the supplier only gets one reading a month unless you give permission for more regular reads. Quite frankly, even if my supplier could see my usage in real time I'm unsure why this would interest them, I get home and turn the oven on at roughly the same time as the rest of the country. Big deal.
4) They don't irradiate your brain.
5) Load limiting and disconnection are features in the meters, suppliers aren't legally allowed to use them unless you're on a Prepayment tariff anyway (meaning that if you pay for your energy, you'll never know those features are there). If they need to cut you off under a rota disconnection due to power shortages then they can and will do this whether you have a Smart meter or not.
jon- said:
Blue Oval84 said:
So many half-truths, so little time.
1) Energy companies haven't ever pressed the government to roll these things out, the business case is negative, they're doing it because they have to.
2) Time of Use pricing is made possible by the Smart meter, but it's not mandatory. In the UK we don't have a network that lends itself to this (no A/C and relatively high gas C/H usage), the main benefit of Time of Use will be for those with night storage heating (obviously), Electric cars, and at some point in the future, potentially smart appliances that switch on themselves. If managed correctly then TOU has the potential to help smooth out network demand without affecting the end user in any noticeable way, which is good for us all as it means we don't need to pay to upgrade the network as much, just use what we have more efficiently. Not sure why this would be a bad thing?
3) The "call centre staff in a far off land" can't see your usage unless you give permission. The data is stored in the meter and the supplier only gets one reading a month unless you give permission for more regular reads. Quite frankly, even if my supplier could see my usage in real time I'm unsure why this would interest them, I get home and turn the oven on at roughly the same time as the rest of the country. Big deal.
4) They don't irradiate your brain.
5) Load limiting and disconnection are features in the meters, suppliers aren't legally allowed to use them unless you're on a Prepayment tariff anyway (meaning that if you pay for your energy, you'll never know those features are there). If they need to cut you off under a rota disconnection due to power shortages then they can and will do this whether you have a Smart meter or not.
I like you.1) Energy companies haven't ever pressed the government to roll these things out, the business case is negative, they're doing it because they have to.
2) Time of Use pricing is made possible by the Smart meter, but it's not mandatory. In the UK we don't have a network that lends itself to this (no A/C and relatively high gas C/H usage), the main benefit of Time of Use will be for those with night storage heating (obviously), Electric cars, and at some point in the future, potentially smart appliances that switch on themselves. If managed correctly then TOU has the potential to help smooth out network demand without affecting the end user in any noticeable way, which is good for us all as it means we don't need to pay to upgrade the network as much, just use what we have more efficiently. Not sure why this would be a bad thing?
3) The "call centre staff in a far off land" can't see your usage unless you give permission. The data is stored in the meter and the supplier only gets one reading a month unless you give permission for more regular reads. Quite frankly, even if my supplier could see my usage in real time I'm unsure why this would interest them, I get home and turn the oven on at roughly the same time as the rest of the country. Big deal.
4) They don't irradiate your brain.
5) Load limiting and disconnection are features in the meters, suppliers aren't legally allowed to use them unless you're on a Prepayment tariff anyway (meaning that if you pay for your energy, you'll never know those features are there). If they need to cut you off under a rota disconnection due to power shortages then they can and will do this whether you have a Smart meter or not.
It's obvious what will happen re. charging and brown outs, anyone that professes otherwise is an idiot.
Laws change in emergencies, especially when there is a security issue like national energy supply.
Most people should avoid a smart meter, until they are compulsory.
KTF said:
In an emergency they are not going to use smart meters to turn off an individual house, they will just shut down the sub station and take out a street, area, whatever. Just like they can do at the moment if they so wish.
You've completely missed the point.I'm not talking about an instantaneous emergency. I'm talking about a prolonged generating deficit.
You only have to look at countries that already have smart meters to see how they are used just as some people 'fear'.
It has resulted in a complex pricing structure and massive bill hikes.
BG has already had UK trials, almost doubling the price of electricity at peaks (they claimed their is no intention to roll out.....).
Mr GrimNasty said:
You've completely missed the point.
I'm not talking about an instantaneous emergency. I'm talking about a prolonged generating deficit.
Good job your Tin Hat doesnt require any electricity then isnt it. I'm not talking about an instantaneous emergency. I'm talking about a prolonged generating deficit.
Seriously, we can buy power from abroad if needs be. Do you really think we will ever get into a situation (assuming nothing big like tsunami, terrorist attack, WW3) where one of the richest economies in the world, who already pay just about the most in the world for their electric, get into a situation where we cant generate or buy electric for everyone?
In 2012 there were 89GW of generating capacity connected to the grid, as well as about 5GW we can buy in from abroad. At this very second the UK is drawing about 33GW. Granted capacity will have changed over the last few years, but we are nowhere near the point at which any 'prolonged generating deficit' is a real problem.
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