London 1930s semi renovation
Discussion
Looking good, FH, nice to see all that space opening up.
I'd suggest that before you put any ceilings back in you (if you are going to) to pack out the void with rockwool - acts as a good sound insulator.
I assume that you already know where all your a/v kit and cabling is going to go?
I'd suggest a hefty amp running 2.1 through decent speakers & sub for a space like that. Streaming from Spotify via Chromecast Audio.
I've now done three major open plans areas in three houses and that set up works for me.
EDIT - just seen your comment about Lutron. I put that in the 2nd renovation and didn't think it was work the cost and hassle. On my third I've been quite happy to going back to flicking switches on and off and varying dimmers. I mean how hard it it?
Save your money for something more useful (see amp/speakers/sub).
I'd suggest that before you put any ceilings back in you (if you are going to) to pack out the void with rockwool - acts as a good sound insulator.
I assume that you already know where all your a/v kit and cabling is going to go?
I'd suggest a hefty amp running 2.1 through decent speakers & sub for a space like that. Streaming from Spotify via Chromecast Audio.
I've now done three major open plans areas in three houses and that set up works for me.
EDIT - just seen your comment about Lutron. I put that in the 2nd renovation and didn't think it was work the cost and hassle. On my third I've been quite happy to going back to flicking switches on and off and varying dimmers. I mean how hard it it?
Save your money for something more useful (see amp/speakers/sub).
Edited by AC43 on Tuesday 9th February 12:58
Thanks for feedback, guys.
Conservatory - we very much want a glass roof rather than a solid roof and extra room. The back of the house is actually pretty boxy due to a rather ugly 1990s extension, so actually the structural, modernist glass box works very well here, especially with the modern glazing going into the back of the house. I fully agree that tacking these onto the back of a pretty period house is a bit incongruous. Our house is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde - pretty on one side, rather ugly on the other. The current boxy rear (very obvious from the park behind the house) will take the glass box, dark paint to blend it (currently white) and modern glass with black frames. The pretty, 1920s front will be restored and tidied, but not modernised, so that from the street, the house looks very original to the Victorian/Edwardian/1920s street.
AC43 - very interesting. Rockwool already specified for the void. However, I was not going to bother with cabling for speakers, as we are going to use a Bluesound wireless system. On the ground floor, ceilings are only coming down in the kitchen and WC, and not the reception rooms or hallway, so I did not think it worth running speaker cable everywhere as frankly, the cost of that and integrated ceiling speakers will be equivalent to the Bluesound System that, unlike wired-in kit, we can take with us when leaving the house.
However, I guess that there is no harm in running speaker cable to blanks, so that the next owners at least have the wiring for an installation in the kitchen (and the new loft too, I guess?), right? If so, I guess cabling will come out into the garage (see floorplan on p1 of the thread), where a multichannel amp could sit, out of sight. Interested in your thoughts.
I will be running some Cat 6 cables to kitchen, reception, AV room and new top bedrooms, as these are rooms which are being stripped/built from scratch.
Any other ideas for when walls/ceilings are out?
Conservatory - we very much want a glass roof rather than a solid roof and extra room. The back of the house is actually pretty boxy due to a rather ugly 1990s extension, so actually the structural, modernist glass box works very well here, especially with the modern glazing going into the back of the house. I fully agree that tacking these onto the back of a pretty period house is a bit incongruous. Our house is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde - pretty on one side, rather ugly on the other. The current boxy rear (very obvious from the park behind the house) will take the glass box, dark paint to blend it (currently white) and modern glass with black frames. The pretty, 1920s front will be restored and tidied, but not modernised, so that from the street, the house looks very original to the Victorian/Edwardian/1920s street.
AC43 - very interesting. Rockwool already specified for the void. However, I was not going to bother with cabling for speakers, as we are going to use a Bluesound wireless system. On the ground floor, ceilings are only coming down in the kitchen and WC, and not the reception rooms or hallway, so I did not think it worth running speaker cable everywhere as frankly, the cost of that and integrated ceiling speakers will be equivalent to the Bluesound System that, unlike wired-in kit, we can take with us when leaving the house.
However, I guess that there is no harm in running speaker cable to blanks, so that the next owners at least have the wiring for an installation in the kitchen (and the new loft too, I guess?), right? If so, I guess cabling will come out into the garage (see floorplan on p1 of the thread), where a multichannel amp could sit, out of sight. Interested in your thoughts.
I will be running some Cat 6 cables to kitchen, reception, AV room and new top bedrooms, as these are rooms which are being stripped/built from scratch.
Any other ideas for when walls/ceilings are out?
Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 9th February 13:12
The only thing I would say is think again about more cat 6 wires.
We use Sonos and streaming services for TV and films etc and sometimes we can have ridiculous amounts of devices hammering the wifi.
Phones/laptops/sonos/desktop computers/tablets. Loads of the things.
We refurbed a couple of years ago and that is my only regret.
Although we also put loads os soundproofing in which is a the best thing we did. Apart from the fact I have to bellow at the kids at top note to get them out of bed in the morning.
We use Sonos and streaming services for TV and films etc and sometimes we can have ridiculous amounts of devices hammering the wifi.
Phones/laptops/sonos/desktop computers/tablets. Loads of the things.
We refurbed a couple of years ago and that is my only regret.
Although we also put loads os soundproofing in which is a the best thing we did. Apart from the fact I have to bellow at the kids at top note to get them out of bed in the morning.
Harry Flashman said:
=The current boxy rear (very obvious from the park behind the house) will take the glass box, dark paint to blend it (currently white) and modern glass with black frames. The pretty, 1920s front will be restored and tidied, but not modernised, so that from the street, the house looks very original to the Victorian/Edwardian/1920s street.
Makes sense to me. Harry Flashman said:
However, I was not going to bother with cabling for speakers, as we are going to use a Bluesound wireless system. On the ground floor, ceilings are only coming down in the kitchen and WC, and not the reception rooms or hallway, so I did not think it worth running speaker cable everywhere as frankly, the cost of that and integrated ceiling speakers will be equivalent to the Bluesound System that, unlike wired-in kit, we can take with us when leaving the house.
I'm a bit old school in that I've collected amps, speakers and subs over the years (and take them with me from house to house).Then I work out various ways of hiding/discretely fitting the big black boxes and run speaker cables as appropriate. Even if you don't end up using them running cables is cheap at strip down stage. I'm running a CA Azure amp which IIRC in 3.1 mode runs something like 140 watts right and 140 watts left and then there a sub (70 watts? 100 watts?). Sometimes I like it quiet and controlled, sometimes a lot louder.
I don't know anything about Bluesound but, generally, I've been a bit underwhelmed when I've heard the various wireless/Sonos type setups some of my mates have gone for. Sometimes I think you're paying for the convenience rather that the grunt and audio quality. And it you have a bare shell you have more choice.
FWIW I've never bothered with muti-room but if I wanted it I'd just start chaining my Chromecasts together - at £30 a pop they make any system open to streaming and multi room.
You can see where the various a/v bits are.
Still need to get a cabinet to finish off the install. Speakers are Monitor Audio Golds. Sub is in far corner behind couch. Cables chased into walls.
In other installs I've combined TV and audio. Here, because of room shape, I split them.
No reason why the amp, etc, couldn't be in another room in your case.
Still need to get a cabinet to finish off the install. Speakers are Monitor Audio Golds. Sub is in far corner behind couch. Cables chased into walls.
In other installs I've combined TV and audio. Here, because of room shape, I split them.
No reason why the amp, etc, couldn't be in another room in your case.
Edited by AC43 on Tuesday 9th February 14:06
Edited by AC43 on Tuesday 9th February 14:10
AC43 said:
Harry Flashman said:
=The current boxy rear (very obvious from the park behind the house) will take the glass box, dark paint to blend it (currently white) and modern glass with black frames. The pretty, 1920s front will be restored and tidied, but not modernised, so that from the street, the house looks very original to the Victorian/Edwardian/1920s street.
Makes sense to me. Harry Flashman said:
However, I was not going to bother with cabling for speakers, as we are going to use a Bluesound wireless system. On the ground floor, ceilings are only coming down in the kitchen and WC, and not the reception rooms or hallway, so I did not think it worth running speaker cable everywhere as frankly, the cost of that and integrated ceiling speakers will be equivalent to the Bluesound System that, unlike wired-in kit, we can take with us when leaving the house.
I'm a bit old school in that I've collected amps, speakers and subs over the years (and take them with me from house to house).Then I work out various ways of hiding/discretely fitting the big black boxes and run speaker cables as appropriate. Even if you don't end up using them running cables is cheap at strip down stage. I'm running a CA Azure amp which IIRC in 3.1 mode runs something like 140 watts right and 140 watts left and then there a sub (70 watts? 100 watts?). Sometimes I like it quiet and controlled, sometimes a lot louder.
I don't know anything about Bluesound but, generally, I've been a bit underwhelmed when I've heard the various wireless/Sonos type setups some of my mates have gone for. Sometimes I think you're paying for the convenience rather that the grunt and audio quality. And it you have a bare shell you have more choice.
FWIW I've never bothered with muti-room but if I wanted it I'd just start chaining my Chromecasts together - at £30 a pop they make any system open to streaming and multi room.
I think for ambient music the Bluesound is pretty good (I agree with you on Sonos - sound quality is really weak; Bluesound is a great deal better sounding)
However, one channel on the lossless Bluesound stream will be straight into my beloved Musical Fidelity/PMC hi-fi set up, for when I want to listen to music
Harry Flashman said:
I think for ambient music the Bluesound is pretty good ....one channel on the lossless Bluesound stream will be straight into my beloved Musical Fidelity/PMC hi-fi set up listen to music
Just had a quick look at Bluesound - it looks great. Proper set-up. FWIW the listing that came up was for it was from Sevenoaks. I have to stay out of Sevenoaks. The stuff in there is just too tempting.
AC43 said:
Harry Flashman said:
I think for ambient music the Bluesound is pretty good ....one channel on the lossless Bluesound stream will be straight into my beloved Musical Fidelity/PMC hi-fi set up listen to music
Just had a quick look at Bluesound - it looks great. Proper set-up. FWIW the listing that came up was for it was from Sevenoaks. I have to stay out of Sevenoaks. The stuff in there is just too tempting.
Looks great.
desolate said:
AC43 said:
Harry Flashman said:
I think for ambient music the Bluesound is pretty good ....one channel on the lossless Bluesound stream will be straight into my beloved Musical Fidelity/PMC hi-fi set up listen to music
Just had a quick look at Bluesound - it looks great. Proper set-up. FWIW the listing that came up was for it was from Sevenoaks. I have to stay out of Sevenoaks. The stuff in there is just too tempting.
Looks great.
You're hooked on Bluesound. Meanwhile I'd forgotten all about Sevenoaks and why I never go in any more. Must. Resist. Must. Resist.
I mean, over the weekend I was visiting family in Norwich and wandered into the local Richer Sounds. I ended up deep in conversation about digital musical formats whilst having a demo of the Naim soundbase. Amazing bit of kit. And "only" £800. The BIL ended up dragging me out.
The problem with Sevenoaks is that the same thing happens but the whatever-it-is that I suddenly "need" costs multiples of that.
Just don't.
Projected costs on this renovation have (according to my spreadsheet) just hit £175k: my initial estimate before we broke ground was £167k, and some extra works like digging out the floors and dealing with asbestos/crap conservatory/crap kitchen roof have put us over.
Seems OK for what we are having done, in London, but that is still a lot of money to be paying out in cash!
I mean, that's nearly a 488 GTB, or something second hand and very exotic.
This had better be worth it.
Seems OK for what we are having done, in London, but that is still a lot of money to be paying out in cash!
I mean, that's nearly a 488 GTB, or something second hand and very exotic.
This had better be worth it.
Thanks Ali!
I wouldn't be too stressed about it. This build is in London, so everything is more expensive (although friends tell me they have been quoted 50% higher than our budget for similar works here!), and our renovation is very extensive. We are doing everything short of re-roofing, digging a basement, or building an extension. And the spec is high too - underfloor heating, stone floors, granite kitchen surfaces, home automation, high spec heating system, all new electrical wiring, full insulation, wood burning stoves and so on.
And it's a big house, so needs big boiler, lots of piping, 20+ non-standard radiators, lots of flooring, plastering, painting etc etc. Floor tiles for kitchen and are for 40 square metres, which makes them expensive when tiling in limestone flagstones. We have also done structural work, and are building a whole new loft conversion. Most renovations don't need to be to this extent at all, I think. My last one certainly wasn't.
And I am doing nothing myself at all (neither of us really have the time during the week, and value our weekends)- the builder is doing the lot, under my direction. Some DIY would save money too.
While I think we are doing well in terms of price for what we are doing, you can definitely save money on the spec we have chosen without in any way being cheap. I am very fussy about this kind of thing, and the London market where I am is an odd one - people love a high-spec house where we live, and will pay for it: probably because builders charge so much for re-furbs that all buyers seem to really want to have to do is fit a new £50k kitchen. There is a reason that our kitchen is a lot cheaper than that - there is every chance that the eventual buyer (this is not intended to be our forever home) will rip it out and start again. They will appreciate the underfloor heating, new central heating and wiring, stone tiles, high spec glazing etc etc, though. So we are spending here.
Lady F's bonus got announced yesterday, so we get to keep my car. Woohoo! That was about to go up for sale as the budget crept up. Luckily Lady F is better at her job than I am at mine...
I wouldn't be too stressed about it. This build is in London, so everything is more expensive (although friends tell me they have been quoted 50% higher than our budget for similar works here!), and our renovation is very extensive. We are doing everything short of re-roofing, digging a basement, or building an extension. And the spec is high too - underfloor heating, stone floors, granite kitchen surfaces, home automation, high spec heating system, all new electrical wiring, full insulation, wood burning stoves and so on.
And it's a big house, so needs big boiler, lots of piping, 20+ non-standard radiators, lots of flooring, plastering, painting etc etc. Floor tiles for kitchen and are for 40 square metres, which makes them expensive when tiling in limestone flagstones. We have also done structural work, and are building a whole new loft conversion. Most renovations don't need to be to this extent at all, I think. My last one certainly wasn't.
And I am doing nothing myself at all (neither of us really have the time during the week, and value our weekends)- the builder is doing the lot, under my direction. Some DIY would save money too.
While I think we are doing well in terms of price for what we are doing, you can definitely save money on the spec we have chosen without in any way being cheap. I am very fussy about this kind of thing, and the London market where I am is an odd one - people love a high-spec house where we live, and will pay for it: probably because builders charge so much for re-furbs that all buyers seem to really want to have to do is fit a new £50k kitchen. There is a reason that our kitchen is a lot cheaper than that - there is every chance that the eventual buyer (this is not intended to be our forever home) will rip it out and start again. They will appreciate the underfloor heating, new central heating and wiring, stone tiles, high spec glazing etc etc, though. So we are spending here.
Lady F's bonus got announced yesterday, so we get to keep my car. Woohoo! That was about to go up for sale as the budget crept up. Luckily Lady F is better at her job than I am at mine...
Edited by Harry Flashman on Thursday 11th February 11:28
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