London house prices?

[JiggyJaggy]

A lot of people are sitting on the fence at the moment and not moving from their current homes (rented/owned) so seems like there are less transactions in the market place at the moment.

[croyde]

Adam B said:

croyde - what sq ft is that? Seem to remember you are in Barmouth?

Near there. Much smaller than the Barmouth houses. Railwayman's cottages originally 3 bedroom but ours has an attic converted to a big bedroom and bathroom.

The better ones in the street have the side returns done as well for big kitchen diners.

Both our neighbours on each side have done this so and easy build for a new owner.

Ours is pretty tired thus a nice blank canvass

[Harry Flashman]

voicey said:

croyde said:

Why aren't rents crashing down??

I recently struggled to find a tenant for my B2L in Lewisham - took nearly 3 months compared to 2 weeks when I last advertised it in 2015. Had a lot of interest but people were saying that it was too expensive. I dropped the price a little and managed to find someone who seems decent.

From my sample of one, it seems that the rental market is slowing which should lead to lower rents.

I just rented my flat in West Dulwich, and rented it at 10% less than I rented it the year before as whilst had much interest, everyone said it was too expensive. I had it advertised for the same rate as last year, when it was taken in a week. A look at the usual websites showed that it was true: prices have dropped in my locale: but standard of property has gone up too..

To be more granular, my flat is what I would call “premium” – it is the top 3 floors of a semi-detached Victorian property near a station, and used to be my home so is beautifully kitted out, with everything from new heating system and wiring, to gadgets like Nest and Ethernet ports/USB chargers everywhere. Roof terrace, lovely communal garden, kitchen and bathrooms are high-end (heated floors, heated mirrors, overspec extraction, whirlpool baths etc). It is 1300 square feet with 3 beds and 2 full baths, so not a poky new build in a block of identical units). But it is not worth thinking about this – folk were often not comparing like for like when trying to negotiate: most of the stuff being advertised was smaller, and far less nice. It didn’t matter – this year, every single potential tenant wanted to negotiate the price. Last year I had the pick of tenants offering asking price immediately.

So why is thi? I think it is due to a load of BTL last-minuters buying up flats in the area last year before the stamp duty change, then renovating them to rent, and now needing to rent these fast, so pricing has dropped. Good news for tenants – when comparing the competition this year, there are a lot more newly renovated flats on the rental market than there were last year, so my place is no longer as special to a potential tenant as it once was. Fair enough!

On a side note, I took the view that tenants I liked with proper jobs (the flat now houses an EDF energy trader and a 40 year old A&E doctor working at King’s) were the priority over absolute yield. And spending a month buggering around looking for suitable tenants would cost me more than taking these guys in at less. Trust me, you get some real weirdos turning up – my personal favourite was the woman who wanted to hold Buddhist chanting sessions in the flat (annoy the neighbours, constant wear and tear of 20+ loons in the living room etc etc), could not really tell me what she did for a living and, right at the end of the conversation, told me that she would be bringing her 2 cats and terrier. The advertisement clearly states no pets, and a regular, documented income. She then shouted at me (very un-Buddhist, I felt) and called me an animal-hater when I (politely) told her that we were not going to be a good fit as landlord and tenant.

I took the 10% hit for the sane people who pay on time, take care of the place and don’t invite loads of random people over every week to annoy my (very nice) former neighbours downstairs.

But, back to house prices – houses here are stagnant because owners don’t want to accept that after 8 years of rises, London is falling or at least staying still. Flats rentals are pressured because a load of private BTL folk bought up everything in sight last year, have spent some time renovating the stock, and now need to rent them fast. I have not really been following flat prices around here as much as houses, but I think they are now stagnant after the new 3% second home SDLT too, after a spike before last April when people rushed to buy.

[croyde]

NomduJour said:

croyde said:

Why aren't rents crashing down??

Because they haven't kept pace with price increases in any way.

Yep! I do appreciate that but for example my rent on a 2 bedroomed cottage in Surrey is a struggle even on my pretty decent well above average wage. It's about the same as the rent on a 1 maybe 2 bedroom flat in most parts of SW London. The lucky owner built it in 1990 so must be making a fortune.

I'm seriously considering just getting a room in a house and share, shudder.

Never thought at 55 my life would end up like this. There must be so many in the same situation.

BTW in order to get my current cottage, I had to prove that I could cover the rent by stumping up a year in advance. Really made me sick to see how much I'm throwing away each year.

Oh well, moan over, back on topic

[Harry Flashman]

croyde said:

Yep! I do appreciate that but for example my rent on a 2 bedroomed cottage in Surrey is a struggle even on my pretty decent well above average wage. It's about the same as the rent on a 1 maybe 2 bedroom flat in most parts of SW London. The lucky owner built it in 1990 so must be making a fortune.

I'm seriously considering just getting a room in a house and share, shudder.

Never thought at 55 my life would end up like this. There must be so many in the same situation.

BTW in order to get my current cottage, I had to prove that I could cover the rent by stumping up a year in advance. Really made me sick to see how much I'm throwing away each year.

Oh well, moan over, back on topic

Croyde, the 40 year old doctor I rent my place to (and he shares) is also divorced, with wife and kid living in the old marital home.

If his success with the local female population seems to be any guidance, there is life after divorce, so chin up!

Mind you, he is Italian, so a certain level of rakishness is to be expected. It probably led to the divorce, to be fair.

[gibbon]

Harry Flashman said:

I just rented my flat in West Dulwich, and rented it at 10% less than I rented it the year before as whilst had much interest, everyone said it was too expensive. I had it advertised for the same rate as last year, when it was taken in a week. A look at the usual websites showed that it was true: prices have dropped in my locale: but standard of property has gone up too..

To be more granular, my flat is what I would call “premium” – it is the top 3 floors of a semi-detached Victorian property near a station, and used to be my home so is beautifully kitted out, with everything from new heating system and wiring, to gadgets like Nest and Ethernet ports/USB chargers everywhere. Roof terrace, lovely communal garden, kitchen and bathrooms are high-end (heated floors, heated mirrors, overspec extraction, whirlpool baths etc). It is 1300 square feet with 3 beds and 2 full baths, so not a poky new build in a block of identical units). But it is not worth thinking about this – folk were often not comparing like for like when trying to negotiate: most of the stuff being advertised was smaller, and far less nice. It didn’t matter – this year, every single potential tenant wanted to negotiate the price. Last year I had the pick of tenants offering asking price immediately.

So why is thi? I think it is due to a load of BTL last-minuters buying up flats in the area last year before the stamp duty change, then renovating them to rent, and now needing to rent these fast, so pricing has dropped. Good news for tenants – when comparing the competition this year, there are a lot more newly renovated flats on the rental market than there were last year, so my place is no longer as special to a potential tenant as it once was. Fair enough!

On a side note, I took the view that tenants I liked with proper jobs (the flat now houses an EDF energy trader and a 40 year old A&E doctor working at King’s) were the priority over absolute yield. And spending a month buggering around looking for suitable tenants would cost me more than taking these guys in at less. Trust me, you get some real weirdos turning up – my personal favourite was the woman who wanted to hold Buddhist chanting sessions in the flat (annoy the neighbours, constant wear and tear of 20+ loons in the living room etc etc), could not really tell me what she did for a living and, right at the end of the conversation, told me that she would be bringing her 2 cats and terrier. The advertisement clearly states no pets, and a regular, documented income. She then shouted at me (very un-Buddhist, I felt) and called me an animal-hater when I (politely) told her that we were not going to be a good fit as landlord and tenant.

I took the 10% hit for the sane people who pay on time, take care of the place and don’t invite loads of random people over every week to annoy my (very nice) former neighbours downstairs.

But, back to house prices – houses here are stagnant because owners don’t want to accept that after 8 years of rises, London is falling or at least staying still. Flats rentals are pressured because a load of private BTL folk bought up everything in sight last year, have spent some time renovating the stock, and now need to rent them fast. I have not really been following flat prices around here as much as houses, but I think they are now stagnant after the new 3% second home SDLT too, after a spike before last April when people rushed to buy.

Can i ask, do you use an agent? If not what site do you use to advertise?

Ive rented my 2 bed 2 bath high spec warehouse conversion in zone 2 easily, both times on a 2y lease, at what i felt was strong money, and had my pick of tenants. I've always used an agent, but good ones are not cheap and I sometimes question the added value.

Will be interesting to see how easily it shifts in 6 months or so when the renewal is up, i certainly doubt i will be increasing the rent.

[Harry Flashman]

One of the tenants is a friend of a friend, and it's his second year - so really we were just renting a room out, as he is a great bloke and I wanted him to stay. So I was renting a room, not the flat, really. So not an agent, and using room rental sites.

I think using an agent will be good idea if I have to rent the whole flat out - I suspect I may get a better net rate, even after fees, as they will market it properly.

That said, I am wary of them charging me a fortune for fixing routine stuff. It is in an old building, and minor things occasionally go wrong. My relationship with my main tenant is good enough that he either just sorts stuff himself, or I go over and fix it. So far we had the washing machine get blocked - 10 minutes to sort with his help. I have heard plenty of horror stories about plumbers fees for hundreds of pounds when this sort of thing happens whilst using a letting agent...

sorry for thread hijack!

[gibbon]

Harry Flashman said:

One of the tenants is a friend of a friend, and it's his second year - so really we were just renting a room out, as he is a great bloke and I wanted him to stay. So I was renting a room, not the flat, really. So not an agent, and using room rental sites.

I think using an agent will be good idea if I have to rent the whole flat out - I suspect I may get a better net rate, even after fees, as they will market it properly.

That said, I am wary of them charging me a fortune for fixing routine stuff. It is in an old building, and minor things occasionally go wrong. My relationship with my main tenant is good enough that he either just sorts stuff himself, or I go over and fix it. So far we had the washing machine get blocked - 10 minutes to sort with his help. I have heard plenty of horror stories about plumbers fees for hundreds of pounds when this sort of thing happens whilst using a letting agent...

sorry for thread hijack!

Yes, apologies for hijack.

I came to the same conclusion, i pay 8% +VAT for a high end service, on finder only, so they dont manage the property, as i fear the same as you, and its easy and local to where i live now. They do however get me a very good rental rate.

[Harry Flashman]

PM sent - I have some questions re good agents and your experience, but will keep it off this thread!

[EJH]

Mrs EJH bought a BTL flat the other year and has used a small local agent to the flat for finding & management (same agent she bought from, a rate similar to that Gibbon paid for finder-only was negotiated and Mrs E doesn’t want to/have to collect rent when she has other things to do, like work, etc).

RE: tradesmen, it depends very much on the agent; we have a relationship with the agent where they’re happy for us to be in touch with the tenants and, as such, we have been told when tradesmen need to be appointed and have been able to send our own. Whilst this seems to defeat much of the point of managed, it controls costs and means we’re not going to worry when on holiday, etc.

Conversely, friends have used larger, prestigious, agents to manage and had horror stories (washing machines replaced with those that don’t fit…at great expense, moth and cigarette-damaged carpets and chipped bathrooms).

As such, I think it’s worth speaking to any agent you’re looking to appoint and getting a feel for if you can do business.

[gibbon]

EJH said:

Mrs EJH bought a BTL flat the other year and has used a small local agent to the flat for finding & management (same agent she bought from, a rate similar to that Gibbon paid for finder-only was negotiated and Mrs E doesn’t want to/have to collect rent when she has other things to do, like work, etc).

RE: tradesmen, it depends very much on the agent; we have a relationship with the agent where they’re happy for us to be in touch with the tenants and, as such, we have been told when tradesmen need to be appointed and have been able to send our own. Whilst this seems to defeat much of the point of managed, it controls costs and means we’re not going to worry when on holiday, etc.

Conversely, friends have used larger, prestigious, agents to manage and had horror stories (washing machines replaced with those that don’t fit…at great expense, moth and cigarette-damaged carpets and chipped bathrooms).

As such, I think it’s worth speaking to any agent you’re looking to appoint and getting a feel for if you can do business.

All valid points. The only thing i would say, it im not really sure in this day and age what rent collection means. The rent just pops into my current account every month. In three years i've had no issues. Vet your tenants properly and you should be fine.

[Burwood]

gibbon said:

EJH said:

Mrs EJH bought a BTL flat the other year and has used a small local agent to the flat for finding & management (same agent she bought from, a rate similar to that Gibbon paid for finder-only was negotiated and Mrs E doesn’t want to/have to collect rent when she has other things to do, like work, etc).

RE: tradesmen, it depends very much on the agent; we have a relationship with the agent where they’re happy for us to be in touch with the tenants and, as such, we have been told when tradesmen need to be appointed and have been able to send our own. Whilst this seems to defeat much of the point of managed, it controls costs and means we’re not going to worry when on holiday, etc.

Conversely, friends have used larger, prestigious, agents to manage and had horror stories (washing machines replaced with those that don’t fit…at great expense, moth and cigarette-damaged carpets and chipped bathrooms).

As such, I think it’s worth speaking to any agent you’re looking to appoint and getting a feel for if you can do business.

All valid points. The only thing i would say, it im not really sure in this day and age what rent collection means. The rent just pops into my current account every month. In three years i've had no issues. Vet your tenants properly and you should be fine.

Exactly- An agents 'rent collection' means receiving it into their bank account and passing it onto the landlord. If the tenant fails to pay it's not like the agent magically extracts the ££. I would strongly suggest, where possible, all landlords keep a hands on approach

[EJH]

That’s really pretty much it…but for the very nominal fee over finding-only it was considered worth it when:

1 We both have jobs that are distracting enough and
2 Management (and lack of worry), especially if we’re away.

If one of us didn’t work or the amount they charged for it was different, we wouldn’t do it thus; it’s all horses and courses.

When there are issues, we're usually the (good) tenants' first port of call, anyway.

[croyde]

Harry Flashman said:

Croyde, the 40 year old doctor I rent my place to (and he shares) is also divorced, with wife and kid living in the old marital home.

If his success with the local female population seems to be any guidance, there is life after divorce, so chin up!

Mind you, he is Italian, so a certain level of rakishness is to be expected. It probably led to the divorce, to be fair.

No problem in that department lately but thanks all the same

[Alfa numeric]

Bloomberg: Foxtons Warns London Home Sales Market Will Remain ‘Challenging’

Looks like MINI sales are about to take a hit...

[voicey]

I rent mine out using Visum - costs £60 to get it on all the major portals. Obviously, I do all the viewings myself but the background checks start with their enquiry - when they call Visum up they need to give their name and contact details (and they get mine). I can then look them up on Linkedin to see what they do and at the viewing I can sound them out further.

Once I've found someone I use Vorensys to do the referencing and background checks. I take the fee (£50) up front from the prospective tenant but make it clear that I don't charge any other fees (which increases the attraction of dealing with me).

[TheLordJohn]

We aren't in London, per se, we are in High Wycombe.
We're okay in that we can rent a house from the RAF so it's not ridiculously expensive to live here.
But I had planned on buying a house around here to live in while we are here then let out when we move.
We have done this in North Yorkshire but because we still own that house, and want to keep it for our tenants, we'd get shafted on the SDLT. Jumps from £7/8k to more like £12/13k. It just isn't worth throwing that money away for us.
I'd sort of set my heart on buying a house down here, but as we're probably going to end up going back up North somewhere when we 'retire' i think we'll just buy a few houses up there over the years and see a lot less capital gains unfortunately.

[lemmingjames]

Hello,

So the long story short is:

• Currently reside in North Hertfordshire but have been bored/restless now for a little while,
• London is calling but itd have to be zone 1/2 or within 30 minutes of central london otherwise i might as well just stay where i am as i can get to kings cross in 30 and uber home after a night out
• Moving to another town in a Home County doesnt currently appeal as i have no dependents currently and therefore no need to worry about schools etc.
• Im looking at the 500k max market + fees
• Looking for a property with gated and secure car parking
• Thinking of moving in the Summer

Ive read back the past few pages regarding the property market and have seen that the property market has stagnated where i live - normally houses would sell really quickly but now things are sticking around more/longer, is this the same for the market in Zone 1 or just outside it or do things still sell quite quickly?

Or once Article 50 is triggered, are we expecting to see more properties on the market and prices come down?

Another option is just to rent somewhere in central and keep the herts place as the weekend 'retreat'/keep the cars there and figure out if i like the london lifestyle or not but then i think if ive got the money for renting, might as well buy (then rent out after)

First world problems i know

[kiethton]

How long would you be looking to stay in London for?

If less than ~3 years it may make sense to just rent - no capital risk, no transactional costs (stamp, laywers etc. costs pay a lot of rent), house prices are unlikely to go up significantly so you're unlikely to loose out here and you also won't have the cost of service charges or repairs to worry about.

[lemmingjames]

kiethton said:

How long would you be looking to stay in London for?

If less than ~3 years it may make sense to just rent - no capital risk, no transactional costs (stamp, laywers etc. costs pay a lot of rent), house prices are unlikely to go up significantly so you're unlikely to loose out here and you also won't have the cost of service charges or repairs to worry about.

I dont know thats the thing, i didnt plan to live where i live for 10 years but ive been here now. I guess it would be a change of circumstances (kids id imagine as wouldnt want to bring them up in a non-leafy area of London) but thats not on the foreseeable radar.

I guess its swings and roundabouts on buying/renting but id want a furnished flat if renting (maybe new mattress or a topper)