2016 Lawn thread

[miroku]

Just one more

[LordHaveMurci]

V8A*ndy said:

Perhaps you would like to see the entire site then? The Homes, Gardens and DIY section are going to be bombarded with questions once the plans come through.

That is stunning! Care to share any more info?

[8-P]

OK lawn geeks, you might like this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03pr191/grea...

It feature lots of lawn tips and visits the UKs best lawn apparently - 4mins 36, not a bad little patch owned by a retired Doctor - Gay and Chisholm, yes you read correctly.

[Mario149]

V8A*ndy said:

Perhaps you would like to see the entire site then? The Homes, Gardens and DIY section are going to be bombarded with questions once the plans come through.

Wow! That's real picture postcard!

[Hobo]

This is what I'm currently looking after (just under 3 acres, and using an Allett Buffalo for the job). Up to last year it was council cut, and the improvement in the last 9 months since doing it myself is amazing. Still more improvements needed but getting there.

[jagnet]

miroku said:

Hopefully pictures this time.
By the way the seed used was Limagrain MM29 if that helps.

Thanks

Thanks, that does help I think. Overall the lawn's looking really lush and neat, very nice indeed.

I'm going to rule out animal urine (domestic and/or wild animals) as there isn't the distinctive circle of lush green growth around the edge of the patches, and some of the grasses still look pretty healthy inside the patches.

From the close up it seems that the ryegrasses in the affected patches are growing back ok with new leaves apparent on some of the plants. There is some yellowing of the tips and some of the cut edges are a touch ragged. The soil looks quite wet. To my mind the fescues have been affected more, possibly.

I'm reluctant to suggest disease at this stage. My first thoughts would be towards poorer drainage in those areas leading to roots sitting in water too long. With fresh growth evident it seems as though the grass that has survived is recovering now that the weather has improved and the ground is able to dry out a little. Fescue does prefer a sandy well draining soil so I would expect that to suffer more in such conditions. If that is the case then I'd rake out the dead stuff, aerate those patches well, perhaps topdress with a little topsoil and compost and then overseed with some more of the MM29.

The yellowing tips may be related, or it could indicate some other deficiency. I don't think it's a nitrogen deficiency, possibly iron? Iron chlorosis can also be a common symptom of overly wet soils. It can also happen in patches on a new build lawn if alkaline building materials like cement have found their way into the soil as it reacts with the iron, fixing it into an insoluble form where it can't be absorbed by the plant roots. If those patches have been ongoing for a while then that could well be the case.

Iron is important for photosynthesis, so combine a slight deficiency with lack of sunlight like we've had for much of winter and spring so far and some of the grass won't survive. I'd have thought the fescue would fare better than the ryegrass in that situation rather than the other way around, but then I don't think that's the main cause but more likely part of a more complicated picture.

A quick pH test may indicate slightly more alkaline conditions in the affected areas.

A light dose of chelated iron now wouldn't harm the grass and if there is any iron deficiency it'll help to counter that and there'll be noticeable greening of the yellow tips within hours of application. I do like using sequestered iron and seaweed tonics periodically as I do think they're very beneficial to the turf. I'd get that done before reseeding the affected patches as freshly germinated grass will be more susceptible to damage from it.

There may be other mineral deficiencies present but I would consider it to be unlikely in a domestic lawn so I would only carry out further investigation if the symptoms continue to persist in those areas.

Given the slightly ragged cut edges, if you use a cylinder mower then I'd check the blade sharpness and adjustment. If a rotary then it's bearable but a fresh blade or a sharpen wouldn't go amiss if it's not been done in a while.

Hobo said:

This is what I'm currently looking after (just under 3 acres, and using an Allett Buffalo for the job). Up to last year it was council cut, and the improvement in the last 9 months since doing it myself is amazing. Still more improvements needed but getting there.

That must be keeping you busy, but it's great that you're already seeing substantial improvements. It's so sad that so many councils cut their sports ground maintenance budgets back to the bare bones leaving many grounds in inadequate conditions at best, verging on dangerous at worst, whilst Government can't think of anything more original than sugar taxes to beat obesity.

[miroku]

Brilliant Jagnet. I think you are bang on with the water comment as we live on a steep hill and that combined with clay leads to water logging. To comply with planning regs, we had to remove 450 tonnes of soil in order to lower the building. As you can imagine the remaining soil is not the best. We have tried to incorporate organic matter where possible but clearly not enough. In fact, having paid for the removal of 450 tonnes, my wife is now buying top soil by the bag from the local garden centre!
I will certainly try using iron as you suggest.
Thank you so much Jagnet, great advice as usual.

[jagnet]

miroku said:

Brilliant Jagnet. I think you are bang on with the water comment as we live on a steep hill and that combined with clay leads to water logging. To comply with planning regs, we had to remove 450 tonnes of soil in order to lower the building. As you can imagine the remaining soil is not the best. We have tried to incorporate organic matter where possible but clearly not enough. In fact, having paid for the removal of 450 tonnes, my wife is now buying top soil by the bag from the local garden centre!
I will certainly try using iron as you suggest.
Thank you so much Jagnet, great advice as usual.

Wow, that is a lot of soil to remove. Must've kept a few grab lorry drivers employed for a while.

There could certainly be some less than ideal subsoil mixed into the lawn then with that much groundworks going on. Some regular topdressing of the lawn with topsoil/compost will gradually build up a layer of better quality rootzone on top. You could even topdress monthly with thin layers during the growing season if you felt so inclined. Combine it with deeper aeration in spring and autumn and more regular pin pricking through the year to help avoid soil horizons.

That method would certainly be easier, although somewhat slower, than trying to dig out the patches given how nice the lawn is looking for the most part, but over time it will build up a decent rootzone of freer draining soil.

[Some Gump]

Craikeybaby said:

After scarifying by Lewis Craik, on Flickr

The jobs for tomorrow will be fertilising and overseeding.

I hope that list started with "edge the lawn" IMO it's make such a massive difference and take a lot less effort than the list you're doing =)

[leem5]

How thick can you top dress to? I'm trying to rectify a new build lawn that's 'settled' after being relaid last year. There is now some levelling out required in places and some are a good 1-2" deep.

Thanks.

[jagnet]

leem5 said:

How thick can you top dress to? I'm trying to rectify a new build lawn that's 'settled' after being relaid last year. There is now some levelling out required in places and some are a good 1-2" deep.

Thanks.

For hollows that deep you're better off peeling back the existing turf, filling and then relaying. The existing grass is unlikely to recover from being buried under an inch or more and then you're left with the problem of the old turf decomposing (or even worse not decomposing) under your new layer.

Really half an inch is about the most I'd want to top dress in one go. Instead, if you don't want to start peeling back turf then little and often through the growing season is the way to go, with slightly deeper applications in spring and autumn together with overseeding and you can make up a couple of inches in under five years.

[leem5]

jagnet said:

For hollows that deep you're better off peeling back the existing turf, filling and then relaying. The existing grass is unlikely to recover from being buried under an inch or more and then you're left with the problem of the old turf decomposing (or even worse not decomposing) under your new layer.

Really half an inch is about the most I'd want to top dress in one go. Instead, if you don't want to start peeling back turf then little and often through the growing season is the way to go, with slightly deeper applications in spring and autumn together with overseeding and you can make up a couple of inches in under five years.

Hi Jagnet, thanks the reply. It was what I was thinking but wanted to make sure.

Think i may lift the turf then top dress after. Has anyone used the ladder method for spreading the soil, or am I better purchasing a wide landscape rake?

[timekiller]

This was my garden last year





This is how it stands now.





Going to be putting in a twisting path and turfing down the garden. I have Rotavated the area to a depth of about 200mm but still have a lot of levelling and walking the soil. I had my laser out and its about 100mm difference in height front to back. Once levelled I will add a good quality compost on top before re-turfing. Does this sound right or have I missed anything? Any tips would be much appreciated as I have never put turf down before and its quite a large area to mess up!

[Craikeybaby]

Some Gump said:

Craikeybaby said:

After scarifying by Lewis Craik, on Flickr

The jobs for tomorrow will be fertilising and overseeding.

I hope that list started with "edge the lawn" IMO it's make such a massive difference and take a lot less effort than the list you're doing =)

One of those jobs I hate, but the lawn always looks so much better when it is done. Will wait until the next cut to do that though.

[jagnet]

leem5 said:

Think i may lift the turf then top dress after. Has anyone used the ladder method for spreading the soil, or am I better purchasing a wide landscape rake?

The ladder method works well for final levelling and is frequently used on cricket pitches and bowling greens. The back of a landscape rake is in some ways easier at moving top dressing around (especially deeper quantities), but the length of the ladder does help to get a more level surface.

Trying to get the top dressing evenly spread initially makes life a lot easier so flinging from the end of a shovel across the grass is preferable to just piling it in mounds and trying to spread it from there. Also giving the grass a very short cut first helps.

timekiller said:

Once levelled I will add a good quality compost on top before re-turfing. Does this sound right or have I missed anything? Any tips would be much appreciated as I have never put turf down before and its quite a large area to mess up!

Rotovate or dig the compost into the soil rather than just laying on top to avoid layering and soil horizons. Compost on its own doesn't make such a good rootzone; soil structure is so important for turf health which you only get from the combined mix of sands, silts, clay and organic matter that make up "soil".

A 6-9-6 starter fertiliser added before laying the turf will help it to establish, with the Phosphorous encouraging all important root development.

The garden looks as though it can be quite shaded in places so I'd definitely be looking for a turf that's shade tolerant. Standard ryegrass turf may very well struggle in that garden, particularly over winter.

Seeding rather than turf would give you a much wider variety of shade tolerant grass to choose from but obviously that does require longer to give you a usable lawn. That said, a Poa supina turf gives you a very wear tolerant lawn with about the most shade tolerant grass you can plant (it just comes at a price) and Poa supina is one of the grass types in my often recommended (for shade) Germinal A6 Supreme Shade seed mix anyway.

Having all your eggs in one grass variety basket as with the Poa supina turf above can be an issue if for some reason that grass isn't happy with conditions in your garden (drainage, soil type, etc). A mixture of grass types is somewhat less risky and is one of the reasons that Lawnsmith's Shadygreen seed does so well in so many different gardens with its seven different grass varieties in the mix. If one of those seven grasses fails to establish you'll barely notice.

[timekiller]

To be honest the area that will be turfed gets probably 90% sunlight on a sunny day, only the last few hours of daylight will get a small section shaded by the trees on the left.

Would you recommend seeding over turf? How long would you think it would take to establish if using the Lawnsmith SHADYGREEN Grass Seed?

Thanks, for the advice.

[jagnet]

Ok, that doesn't sound too bad for shade then. Certainly better than I thought it might be from the photos. A normal ryegrass turf should be fine with maybe a little overseeding needed occasionally in the most shaded parts.

I do prefer seeding to turf if possible as it's much cheaper (always a bonus) and the range of high quality seed mixes is huge so you can really tailor it to your garden and your needs (soil type, wear tolerance, fineness, colour, maintenance requirements etc). It also means that with future overseeding you should be able to source the same seed, although the likes of Rolawn do supply their turf mix as seed as well for an accurate match. I also think there's a greater sense of satisfaction watching it develop from seed, but that could just be me

With warmer weather (hopefully) around the corner I'd suggest a couple of weeks to see good germination across the whole lawn, another two or three weeks before starting to think about its first cut and then three or four weeks before giving it some light use beyond cutting. So realistically a couple of months between sowing and starting to use it, whereas turf is going to be perhaps a month or less after laying before getting light use.

A lawn sown from seed will continue to develop and thicken over the course of a year. Once it gets to around 18 months then it could be considered to be fully established.

With seed you also need to keep on top of watering in dry weather for the first few weeks, whereas turf will be much easier without a timer to assist if there's no one around during the day in sunny weather. It'll also be a little more prone to stress in droughty conditions in its first summer.

In terms of initial ground works getting everything nice and level and heeled in then there's no difference between turf and seed.

[timekiller]

Thanks for the advice, I was going to turf but I think I might seed now. I was going to install a pop up sprinkler system as I work away and it would make life much easier.

[superlightr]

just to say Im enjoying seeing ALL the pictures of your lawns/gardens etc. It great to see people looking after their own pad and taking pride in it no matter what size or style. Love seeing the before during and after pics and stump stories !

[MrChips]

8-P said:

MrChips said:

Ok so it sounds like as I've already got some seed and fertiliser lined up then just some normal topsoil should do the trick.

Here's after mowing:


A closer look reveals just how bad the moss is:


After one run of scarification:


Just gotts Hoover up using the lawnmower and then tomorrow is ferrous sulphate day.

I am somewhat tempted just to returf though

Bet you scarify again once youve hoovered it up!

2 more runs in different directions, ended up using the leaf blower to flush the waste into the border then removed.
This is now 3days afterwards (also did a ferrous sulphate moss treatment after scarifying)


The tree may come out completely or just be lopped down to head height and keep the trunks for the moment.