2016 Lawn thread
Discussion
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
It'll do no harm.
The starter fertiliser will be lower in nitrogen, so it won't give such a surge of growth but it also won't give such a strong green-up. It will also be a milder strength fertiliser.
If you've got enough left over to do the rest of the lawn and you're sure you won't need it for any further seeding, then it'll do no harm to use it up.
Ideally though, your lawn wants plenty of nitrogen at this time of year. Lawnsmith's dedicated spring/summer fertiliser would give much better results. You might be better off keeping the starter fertiliser and using it in early autumn as a transition to the lower-nitrogen feed you'll use later in the year.
Ta thanks, just used it, I have plenty and I don't think I'll be needing it all for the new patches I have seeded/will seed. I'll let you know how it turns out!The starter fertiliser will be lower in nitrogen, so it won't give such a surge of growth but it also won't give such a strong green-up. It will also be a milder strength fertiliser.
If you've got enough left over to do the rest of the lawn and you're sure you won't need it for any further seeding, then it'll do no harm to use it up.
Ideally though, your lawn wants plenty of nitrogen at this time of year. Lawnsmith's dedicated spring/summer fertiliser would give much better results. You might be better off keeping the starter fertiliser and using it in early autumn as a transition to the lower-nitrogen feed you'll use later in the year.
BRISTOL86 said:
These are the buggers. Sat on my deck now and I can see 18(!) of them within 6 feet of me.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
What size are they? I see lots of those in my garden - in my case they're about 1/2 inch across at most. Most of our borders and beds have hundreds of them - you see them scuttling away when you spray the water gun at them. I'm definitely no fan of spiders, but these guys I'm happy with - I reckon they probably eat aphids (greenfly, blackfly) and various other pests.
Yeah they're fairly small, maybe a bit bigger than 1/2in though. Probably about 10p piece size including the legspan. It's just the sheer quantity of them...!
I think that many spiders all over the place would definitely give me the creeps!
Anyway..
Having changed my original reseeding plans, it's time for another request for some advice and a sense check
It's been 2 weeks since rotivating the whole garden and installing some new sleepers, i've started to level out the soil and i'm going to turf instead of seeding as I have 2 cats and loads of birds visiting the garden. I've had a read through some advice sites, especially this one https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=410
I've been raking it across in different directions, walking up and down, but it's still very lumpy in places. I have another 2 tons of decent topsoil on the driveway ready to throw down. I've laid a string line to the top of the sleepers, to the back of the garden and this is the level i want to have as the final finish. So... using normal tools, the questions are:
- How's best in reality to level the lawn out to avoid low points and softer spots.
- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
Anyway..
Having changed my original reseeding plans, it's time for another request for some advice and a sense check
It's been 2 weeks since rotivating the whole garden and installing some new sleepers, i've started to level out the soil and i'm going to turf instead of seeding as I have 2 cats and loads of birds visiting the garden. I've had a read through some advice sites, especially this one https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=410
I've been raking it across in different directions, walking up and down, but it's still very lumpy in places. I have another 2 tons of decent topsoil on the driveway ready to throw down. I've laid a string line to the top of the sleepers, to the back of the garden and this is the level i want to have as the final finish. So... using normal tools, the questions are:
- How's best in reality to level the lawn out to avoid low points and softer spots.
- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
MrChips said:
I think that many spiders all over the place would definitely give me the creeps!
Anyway..
Having changed my original reseeding plans, it's time for another request for some advice and a sense check
It's been 2 weeks since rotivating the whole garden and installing some new sleepers, i've started to level out the soil and i'm going to turf instead of seeding as I have 2 cats and loads of birds visiting the garden. I've had a read through some advice sites, especially this one https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=410
I've been raking it across in different directions, walking up and down, but it's still very lumpy in places. I have another 2 tons of decent topsoil on the driveway ready to throw down. I've laid a string line to the top of the sleepers, to the back of the garden and this is the level i want to have as the final finish. So... using normal tools, the questions are:
- How's best in reality to level the lawn out to avoid low points and softer spots.
- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
I cant answer many of your questions, but if I had the choice Id probably slope my lawn away from the house ever so slightly. It will need to be compacted pretty well otherwise youll feel your feet pushing through when you walk on the turf and that would created dents which you defo dont want.Anyway..
Having changed my original reseeding plans, it's time for another request for some advice and a sense check
It's been 2 weeks since rotivating the whole garden and installing some new sleepers, i've started to level out the soil and i'm going to turf instead of seeding as I have 2 cats and loads of birds visiting the garden. I've had a read through some advice sites, especially this one https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=410
I've been raking it across in different directions, walking up and down, but it's still very lumpy in places. I have another 2 tons of decent topsoil on the driveway ready to throw down. I've laid a string line to the top of the sleepers, to the back of the garden and this is the level i want to have as the final finish. So... using normal tools, the questions are:
- How's best in reality to level the lawn out to avoid low points and softer spots.
- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
Take it the tree is staying?
BRISTOL86 said:
On a seperate note, my garden seems to be absolutely infested with spiders! I know all gardens are to a degree, but this is crazy. If I turn the hose on where the lawn meets the deck, you see literally 30+ spiders at a time scrabbling around over the deck.
I'm pretty indifferent to them but the missus doesn't like it and it's not that nice to be sat chilling on the deck and seeing a shedload of spiders all over the place! They're about halfway between a 5 and 10p in size and very fast, and we never see them in the house. Anything I can do to try and deal with them?
I also have this issue, To the point where the Mrs won't sit outside!I'm pretty indifferent to them but the missus doesn't like it and it's not that nice to be sat chilling on the deck and seeing a shedload of spiders all over the place! They're about halfway between a 5 and 10p in size and very fast, and we never see them in the house. Anything I can do to try and deal with them?
Unconnected to the above, I've given up saving my grass and I'm going to dig it up and re lay turf. My soil is very high in clay, is there anything I can to to improve drainage?
I'll have a couple of tons of pebbles going spare after some other work, would mixing this into the soil help? Or a few tons of sand?
I'm sure it's been asked before but...
Are there any dog friendly fertilizer's/weedkillers ? I have some lawn sand I bought a while back and it says on the pack to keep 'grazing' animals off for 3 weeks ish.
Obviously a dog isn't a cow but in our case I think she might be some days ! Fortunately it's quite handy as she tends to eat the long bits I miss
MrChips said:
I think that many spiders all over the place would definitely give me the creeps!
Anyway..
Having changed my original reseeding plans, it's time for another request for some advice and a sense check
It's been 2 weeks since rotivating the whole garden and installing some new sleepers, i've started to level out the soil and i'm going to turf instead of seeding as I have 2 cats and loads of birds visiting the garden. I've had a read through some advice sites, especially this one https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=410
I've been raking it across in different directions, walking up and down, but it's still very lumpy in places. I have another 2 tons of decent topsoil on the driveway ready to throw down. I've laid a string line to the top of the sleepers, to the back of the garden and this is the level i want to have as the final finish. So... using normal tools, the questions are:
- How's best in reality to level the lawn out to avoid low points and softer spots.
- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
I hate to say it, but I've got a feeling that you've not ordered enough top soil to raise the level of that. I suppose though you can always order more.Anyway..
Having changed my original reseeding plans, it's time for another request for some advice and a sense check
It's been 2 weeks since rotivating the whole garden and installing some new sleepers, i've started to level out the soil and i'm going to turf instead of seeding as I have 2 cats and loads of birds visiting the garden. I've had a read through some advice sites, especially this one https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=410
I've been raking it across in different directions, walking up and down, but it's still very lumpy in places. I have another 2 tons of decent topsoil on the driveway ready to throw down. I've laid a string line to the top of the sleepers, to the back of the garden and this is the level i want to have as the final finish. So... using normal tools, the questions are:
- How's best in reality to level the lawn out to avoid low points and softer spots.
- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
I can't remember if I posted a year or two ago when I sorted my lawn out, but it's recently had it's first proper looking at since the seed went down.
I bought a £100 scarifier and set it to work, dethatching, ripping up weeds and stripping out the moss. It looked like this when I was done:
DSC_0493 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
DSC_0491 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
I was in a whole world of trouble, apparently there's a birthday party in our garden that I didn't know about this coming weekend! It'll never grow back! That was 4 weeks ago now.
This is what was left after filling the wheelie bin. I should have got some plastic sheet out as it's made a mess of the lawn leaving it there!
DSC_0490 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
I fertilised, over-seeded and aerated the top half. Then piled a tonne of water on to get germination started. Actually, probably a lot more than a tonne. I'm glad I won the argument over whether we should have a water meter fitted!
Two weeks later I got the mower out:
DSC_0520 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
Wow, wasn't expecting such a strong recovery, that's what I was expecting it to be like around our Wedding 6 weeks later!
DSC_0521 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
DSC_0522 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
I've had a lot of water go on over the weekend, just cut it now and more water. it's looking rather good now, though I'm going to have to tackle the weeks later this week. I've not had a whole load of success with Verdun, so might might use that again and then spot kill any that survive a few weeks later.
I bought a £100 scarifier and set it to work, dethatching, ripping up weeds and stripping out the moss. It looked like this when I was done:
DSC_0493 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrDSC_0491 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrI was in a whole world of trouble, apparently there's a birthday party in our garden that I didn't know about this coming weekend! It'll never grow back! That was 4 weeks ago now.
This is what was left after filling the wheelie bin. I should have got some plastic sheet out as it's made a mess of the lawn leaving it there!
DSC_0490 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrI fertilised, over-seeded and aerated the top half. Then piled a tonne of water on to get germination started. Actually, probably a lot more than a tonne. I'm glad I won the argument over whether we should have a water meter fitted!
Two weeks later I got the mower out:
DSC_0520 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrWow, wasn't expecting such a strong recovery, that's what I was expecting it to be like around our Wedding 6 weeks later!
DSC_0521 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrDSC_0522 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrI've had a lot of water go on over the weekend, just cut it now and more water. it's looking rather good now, though I'm going to have to tackle the weeks later this week. I've not had a whole load of success with Verdun, so might might use that again and then spot kill any that survive a few weeks later.
MrChips said:
- How's best in reality to level the lawn out to avoid low points and softer spots.
- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
The rootzone needs to be quite well compacted and even then it'll still settle over time. Using your heels to compact the soil rather than just walking on it works best, but expect the backs of your legs to ache by the end. Don't try to compact too much depth in one go; it's best to work on a couple of inches at a time. Avoid working on wet soil as it'll over compact. Then just keep raking and heeling until it's level, finishing off with a long ladder / length of scaffold board / etc dragged around for final levelling. As I say though, you'll still get some settling over time but if you've done the initial prep well it should be fairly consistent and easily dealt with by top dressing.- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
Starter fertiliser is best for both new turf and seed as it's proportionately higher in P to encourage root development. Whilst you may have decent levels of P in your soil it isn't always available to the plant as it's quickly bound up. Adding additional P at the time of turfing will ensure that the grass has enough for root development. Spring/summer fertiliser is proportionately higher in N to encourage lush top growth which isn't where you want your new turf to focus its efforts until established. Ideally spread the fertiliser before turfing but it'd still do its job if you did it after.
As for height for the rootzone, given that it will continue to settle further but to counter that the level of the lawn will rise over time with top dressings, thatch development and the natural decomposition of grass and clippings I'd leave about a half inch to the top of the sleeper. The turf rolls are probably going to have around a half to an inch thickness of soil/thatch.
With a reasonably light garden, any standard ryegrass lawn should be fine. That'll give you wear resistance (of varying amounts depending on the proportion of ryegrass and cultivar) and a deep green colour although it won't tend to be as fine a sward as would be used in ornamental lawns. Most lawns are going to be ryegrass based as it's a very good balance between colour, wear tolerance, fineness for most situations. Ryegrass is a fairly hungry species so you do need to feed it regularly in the growing season to get the best from it. The turf should also contain fescues to "fill in" the bottom of the sward and help hold the turf rolls together naturally. Other grass species can also be found in the blend to add other characteristics such as drought resistance, shade tolerance, fineness, additional wear tolerance, etc. Bent grasses and smooth stalked meadow grass are quite common additions.
Turf that uses plastic mesh to hold itself together is cheap nasty stuff that's best avoided. Ideally you want to use a supplier that can tell you not only what types of grass are used in their turf and in what proportions but also the cultivars and that those cultivars ideally appear in the STRI lists with good disease resistance, colour, appearance, etc.
The TGA list of turf growers is a good place to start looking for turf.
paulrockliffe said:
I can't remember if I posted a year or two ago when I sorted my lawn out, but it's recently had it's first proper looking at since the seed went down.
I bought a £100 scarifier and set it to work, dethatching, ripping up weeds and stripping out the moss. It looked like this when I was done:
DSC_0493 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
DSC_0491 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
I was in a whole world of trouble, apparently there's a birthday party in our garden that I didn't know about this coming weekend! It'll never grow back! That was 4 weeks ago now.
This is what was left after filling the wheelie bin. I should have got some plastic sheet out as it's made a mess of the lawn leaving it there!
DSC_0490 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
I fertilised, over-seeded and aerated the top half. Then piled a tonne of water on to get germination started. Actually, probably a lot more than a tonne. I'm glad I won the argument over whether we should have a water meter fitted!
Two weeks later I got the mower out:
DSC_0520 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
Wow, wasn't expecting such a strong recovery, that's what I was expecting it to be like around our Wedding 6 weeks later!
DSC_0521 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
DSC_0522 by Paul Rockliffe, on Flickr
I've had a lot of water go on over the weekend, just cut it now and more water. it's looking rather good now, though I'm going to have to tackle the weeks later this week. I've not had a whole load of success with Verdun, so might might use that again and then spot kill any that survive a few weeks later.
Nice work, I suspect the good / warmer weather has certainly helped your efforts too.I bought a £100 scarifier and set it to work, dethatching, ripping up weeds and stripping out the moss. It looked like this when I was done:
DSC_0493 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrDSC_0491 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrI was in a whole world of trouble, apparently there's a birthday party in our garden that I didn't know about this coming weekend! It'll never grow back! That was 4 weeks ago now.
This is what was left after filling the wheelie bin. I should have got some plastic sheet out as it's made a mess of the lawn leaving it there!
DSC_0490 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrI fertilised, over-seeded and aerated the top half. Then piled a tonne of water on to get germination started. Actually, probably a lot more than a tonne. I'm glad I won the argument over whether we should have a water meter fitted!
Two weeks later I got the mower out:
DSC_0520 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrWow, wasn't expecting such a strong recovery, that's what I was expecting it to be like around our Wedding 6 weeks later!
DSC_0521 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrDSC_0522 by Paul Rockliffe, on FlickrI've had a lot of water go on over the weekend, just cut it now and more water. it's looking rather good now, though I'm going to have to tackle the weeks later this week. I've not had a whole load of success with Verdun, so might might use that again and then spot kill any that survive a few weeks later.
Im having my guttering/fascias etc done at the moment. The guy is covering half my lawn in upvc and work benches etc. Aghhhhhhhhh - Ive only just got it looking good. Will need to move it all around tonight or the lawn is going to be damaged and start going yellow.
Its a big day for me, I have an announcement. There is a new petrol member in the household.............
Maurice the Mountfield has arrived. £40, yes £40 on a local facebook group. Its probably 15 years old, but its an Empress 16 with roller, non drive. Perfect for my patch. A huge 148cc Briggs and Stratton. Cleaned up nicely, not been used a huge a mount so probably give it a plug and oil. Filter seemed fine, does have a slight problem with the throttle cable not returning. There was a lot of crap around the springs which I cleared out, but that didnt fix it so will require a comparison to my Dads same model.
Flippin images, unless I take it landscape, it always does this even though I rotated it!
Maurice the Mountfield has arrived. £40, yes £40 on a local facebook group. Its probably 15 years old, but its an Empress 16 with roller, non drive. Perfect for my patch. A huge 148cc Briggs and Stratton. Cleaned up nicely, not been used a huge a mount so probably give it a plug and oil. Filter seemed fine, does have a slight problem with the throttle cable not returning. There was a lot of crap around the springs which I cleared out, but that didnt fix it so will require a comparison to my Dads same model.
Flippin images, unless I take it landscape, it always does this even though I rotated it!
Edited by 8-P on Saturday 11th June 12:11
jagnet said:
MrChips said:
- How's best in reality to level the lawn out to avoid low points and softer spots.
- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
The rootzone needs to be quite well compacted and even then it'll still settle over time. Using your heels to compact the soil rather than just walking on it works best, but expect the backs of your legs to ache by the end. Don't try to compact too much depth in one go; it's best to work on a couple of inches at a time. Avoid working on wet soil as it'll over compact. Then just keep raking and heeling until it's level, finishing off with a long ladder / length of scaffold board / etc dragged around for final levelling. As I say though, you'll still get some settling over time but if you've done the initial prep well it should be fairly consistent and easily dealt with by top dressing.- How much compacting should I do, is just walking up and down after raking enough?
- I have some starter fertiliser and some spring/summer fertiliser, which one should i use and should this be laid on the soil before the turf, or after?
- The garden is west facing so in sun quite a long amount during the day, where should I source the turf from and any recommendations for a nice looking general use turf. I don't have kids but it will be walked on etc.
- How much height should I leave from the top of the level of the sleeper to allow for the turf? I would guess turf might arrive fairly thin or fairly thick depending on the supplier?
Starter fertiliser is best for both new turf and seed as it's proportionately higher in P to encourage root development. Whilst you may have decent levels of P in your soil it isn't always available to the plant as it's quickly bound up. Adding additional P at the time of turfing will ensure that the grass has enough for root development. Spring/summer fertiliser is proportionately higher in N to encourage lush top growth which isn't where you want your new turf to focus its efforts until established. Ideally spread the fertiliser before turfing but it'd still do its job if you did it after.
As for height for the rootzone, given that it will continue to settle further but to counter that the level of the lawn will rise over time with top dressings, thatch development and the natural decomposition of grass and clippings I'd leave about a half inch to the top of the sleeper. The turf rolls are probably going to have around a half to an inch thickness of soil/thatch.
With a reasonably light garden, any standard ryegrass lawn should be fine. That'll give you wear resistance (of varying amounts depending on the proportion of ryegrass and cultivar) and a deep green colour although it won't tend to be as fine a sward as would be used in ornamental lawns. Most lawns are going to be ryegrass based as it's a very good balance between colour, wear tolerance, fineness for most situations. Ryegrass is a fairly hungry species so you do need to feed it regularly in the growing season to get the best from it. The turf should also contain fescues to "fill in" the bottom of the sward and help hold the turf rolls together naturally. Other grass species can also be found in the blend to add other characteristics such as drought resistance, shade tolerance, fineness, additional wear tolerance, etc. Bent grasses and smooth stalked meadow grass are quite common additions.
Turf that uses plastic mesh to hold itself together is cheap nasty stuff that's best avoided. Ideally you want to use a supplier that can tell you not only what types of grass are used in their turf and in what proportions but also the cultivars and that those cultivars ideally appear in the STRI lists with good disease resistance, colour, appearance, etc.
The TGA list of turf growers is a good place to start looking for turf.
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