Trainerroad expectations

Trainerroad expectations

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Discussion

lerate

Original Poster:

115 posts

197 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
quotequote all
Hi

I've just done the FTP test on trainerroad and managed 246w, I was wondering if anyone had completed the 12 week programmes and what increases they got? I am going to do the 40km tt programme to get ready for the upcoming season. Any thoughts much appreciated

E65Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
quotequote all
Hi,

Some of the increase will be simply because you have a base figure to aim for in the future, but without a doubt you'll increase this with trainerroad.

I initially got an FTP if 206 (only weigh 119lbs is my excuse) and after a couple of months this went up to 226. I did the General build plan and I'm now on week 3 of the rolling road race plan. I would be further through but for around 6 weeks I had to have off because of firstly a recovery week, then I came down with a cold which knocked me back a few weeks, then I got a small injury, and I've only just got back into it the last 2 weeks or so....I started by having the intensity down 3-4% but I'm not doing the workouts back at 100% and seemingly haven't lost much fitness.

I typically edit most sessions before doing them, just to add in a longer warm up. I can only get time to do 2 "sessions" a week (hard ones) so rather than doing 2x60min hard sessions and 1x90min session per week the programmes suggest I make the 60min sessions nearer 90mins by adding extra efforts. The only session I simply cannot do this for is "Morgan"....I tried doing 11x3mins at 120% then 3mins at 40% but I just can't do it, even doing it 8 times I can't do...it's a real tough workout. I did manage 11 efforts at 115-116% on Wednesday though, and tomorrow morning I'll be doing "Winchell" smile

TR is great, I really enjoy it and it has without a doubt got me quicker....and also has improved my confidence (in the sense that out on rides a while ago with, say, an hour left I'd be weary of pushing on and dying with quite a few miles left, but TR has taught me that I CAN do it if I work for it.

lerate

Original Poster:

115 posts

197 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for that Ross some interesting points. I was perhaps optimistically aiming to get to 300w for the start of the season and lose about half a stone which I think I will get to. I looked at other training apps but I like the data and structure of TrainerRoad, I might mix it up with a video from the Tacx app now and again

SixPotBelly

1,922 posts

219 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
quotequote all
Don't forget that if you compare before and after FTP results that you're assuming you'd have kept your starting FTP over the winter if you hadn't used TrainerRoad. I suspect most people lose some power over the winter unless following a training program, then have to build it back when the season starts.

E65Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
quotequote all
lerate said:
Thanks for that Ross some interesting points. I was perhaps optimistically aiming to get to 300w for the start of the season and lose about half a stone which I think I will get to. I looked at other training apps but I like the data and structure of TrainerRoad, I might mix it up with a video from the Tacx app now and again
The gains you'll get also depend on your current fitness levels. If you've never cycled before, with 3 months of decent training you'll get far larger % increases than if you've been doing a lot of cycling already. Over the summer I was doing 150-200 miles per week, so to get a 10% increase was enormous. What was also interesting was that on the 1st test I did I started out strong, and gradually declined and then gradually increased with 4-5mins to go. On the latest test I started out strong (perhaps even stronger than the 1st time), but actually got stronger throughout, and my heart rate was also a couple of BPM lower....so it was not just a case of going out too hard on the 1st test, because I went out even harder on the 2nd test and still finished stronger. I haven't done an FTP test since the end of October, but because of the aforementioned illness then injury I haven't bothered, I'll get back to it training at 100% difficulty and then do another test in around 6-8 weeks.

E65Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
quotequote all
If you haven't tried trainerroad yet send me a pm as I've got a free 1 month trial giveaway voucher that I've supposedly earned, to give to a friend or whatever.

I did winchell this morning. Didn't feel too bad after the threshold efforts, and after the 1st set of 40/20s I thought "ok 2 to go, this isn't so bad" and after the 2md set (where you get 1min less recovery before the 3rd) I thought "oh ok this is quite hard now" and by the end of the last set I was pretty spent!

I properly enjoy trainerroad, and I hope you do too!

Edited by E65Ross on Sunday 10th January 12:22

Ridley

225 posts

99 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
quotequote all
E65Ross said:
If you haven't tried trainerroad yet send me a pm as I've got a free 1 month trial giveaway voucher that I've supposedly earned, to give to a friend or whatever.
Ditto. If anyone is interested.

Currently trying out Zwift to see how the sessions compare.

ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Just wondering who else is using TR in 2017, or have you all moved to Zwift?

Just started this training stuff for the first time ever as opposed to riding everywhere at 85% effort outside all the time. Ebbetts was my first ever proper interval session, 1 hr feels like 2 or 3 out on the bike.


WestyCarl

3,217 posts

124 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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I'm just about to sign up for TR.
For 20yrs, I've just "ridden as I feel" for about 5hrs / week with no structured plan but the occasional race so am looking forward to see what improvements TR will give.

I'm going for the full 24 weeks (base, build, specialty) if I can stand it eek, no doubt come spring I'll be substituting in some outside rides.

If anyone's interested I'll keep them update with improvements.

E65Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
quotequote all
ALawson said:
Just wondering who else is using TR in 2017, or have you all moved to Zwift?

Just started this training stuff for the first time ever as opposed to riding everywhere at 85% effort outside all the time. Ebbetts was my first ever proper interval session, 1 hr feels like 2 or 3 out on the bike.
Still very much using TR, I prefer the structure of it and the training plans, if I want a general ride, I'll ride outdoors (if the weather isn't horrendous). Good workout Ebbetts, although Trojan is the daddy of that type of workout.....or Sufferfest Fight Club, which I've yet to be able to complete!

moonigan

2,127 posts

240 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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I did the 12 week TR program last year (Nov 15/Mar 16) in prep for the Fred and also used Zwift. During the 12 weeks my FTP didn't change much but what it did do was give me a running start when everyone in our club starting riding again in Feb. Was this anything to do with the structure of the TR program? I suspect not but more to do with putting the miles in week in, week out. I also invested in a power meter to use when on the road but I learned the harsh reality is that a power meter is waste for anyone who isn't competing as its virtually impossible to do any kind of structured training on the road so I sold it after the Fred.

This year I'm not bothering with TR and will just stick with Zwift as I don't really see the benefit unless you are racing. Even if you are training for a week in the Alps or a big one dayer like the Fred you can maintain your fitness just by keeping your legs turning. Zwift will adjust your FTP automatically as you get fitter and there are structured training plans that you can use that have similar kind of workouts to what you find on TR/Sufferfest.

P

ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
quotequote all
Last year I did silly miles in Jan/Feb/Mar is all sorts of weather and paid for it with a 3-4 weeks of being ill. I won't make that mistake again.

In terms of a PM I disagree, on any long climb if you know where you red limit is they are good for keeping you in the zone as for me HR can change too much. Also getting the 3s, 10s and 30s average watts aligned is great for putting out constant power. Cadence and effort for me a difficult to balance whereas a PM gives me good numbers to work from.

PM also when compared to HR can point out when I am fatigued, in Tenerife last year I did 275w for 55mins HR 151 on one ride the other I couldn't hold 240W for the same duration on similar road and HR was through the roof!

Ross thanks for the steer on those other workouts, I will be sticking 1 extra workout in addition to the low base plan I am doing.

E65Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
quotequote all
ALawson said:
Last year I did silly miles in Jan/Feb/Mar is all sorts of weather and paid for it with a 3-4 weeks of being ill. I won't make that mistake again.

In terms of a PM I disagree, on any long climb if you know where you red limit is they are good for keeping you in the zone as for me HR can change too much. Also getting the 3s, 10s and 30s average watts aligned is great for putting out constant power. Cadence and effort for me a difficult to balance whereas a PM gives me good numbers to work from.

PM also when compared to HR can point out when I am fatigued, in Tenerife last year I did 275w for 55mins HR 151 on one ride the other I couldn't hold 240W for the same duration on similar road and HR was through the roof!

Ross thanks for the steer on those other workouts, I will be sticking 1 extra workout in addition to the low base plan I am doing.
I'm a big fan of TR, it's really helped me to keep going. The Sufferfest sessions are epic, and I have all of their videos; they've also got an app out which I've used and they've also done some more videos which are "app-only" but....I may have them too wink

ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Friend has some old SF videos which he has offered to lend me. I won't bother getting those until I buy a turbo!

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
quotequote all
moonigan said:
I did the 12 week TR program last year (Nov 15/Mar 16) in prep for the Fred and also used Zwift. During the 12 weeks my FTP didn't change much but what it did do was give me a running start when everyone in our club starting riding again in Feb. Was this anything to do with the structure of the TR program? I suspect not but more to do with putting the miles in week in, week out. I also invested in a power meter to use when on the road but I learned the harsh reality is that a power meter is waste for anyone who isn't competing as its virtually impossible to do any kind of structured training on the road so I sold it after the Fred.

This year I'm not bothering with TR and will just stick with Zwift as I don't really see the benefit unless you are racing. Even if you are training for a week in the Alps or a big one dayer like the Fred you can maintain your fitness just by keeping your legs turning. Zwift will adjust your FTP automatically as you get fitter and there are structured training plans that you can use that have similar kind of workouts to what you find on TR/Sufferfest.

P
Doesn't really have anything to do with racing/not racing.. Simply put, structured training will allow you to build more fitness for less investment in time than just riding around.

It is pretty much impossible to do proper structured training on the road, yes. There's an old rule of thumb that says an hour on the trainer is worth two on the road. Of course depending on how much time you have and your feelings about weather, you may prefer two on the road, entirely reasonable.

A powermeter has 2 uses:
1) Structured training (see above)
2) Pacing, capping and general effort setting during real world riding.

Gains you see are massively variable. If you're untrained you will likely see big gains. Equally if you have done a lot of 'just riding around', then you probably have a big base, and a lot of benefit to get from focussing on intensity to give you some top end. Also important that you know/set your zones and work to the right level (this is where the powermeter rocks).

Crazycraig

485 posts

230 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Another Trainerroad fan here.

I started in December 15 and followed the below training plans with the odd outdoor ride when weather / time allowed.

Base Phase
Sweet Spot Base Mid Volume I
Sweet Spot Base Mid Volume II

Build Phase
Sustained Power Build High Volume

Specialty Phase
Climbing Road Race High Volume (abandoned when the weather got good)


I really enjoyed the structure of it and the fact that it's not day after day of tough workouts and there are recovery rides mixed in there. I must admit I wasn't too keen on Sundays doing the likes of Maclure (3hr), so those days tended to be my MTB / on the road days.

I found that when I stopped using it in May and just rode on the roads I got more worn down as time went on due to pushing too hard ride after ride, and by the end of summer when I started using it again my FTP had dropped.

I've recently looked in to both Sufferfest, but found I didn't fancy beasting myself every time, and Zwift, and found the initial novelty wore off, so I signed up for the full year of Trainerroad and started doing the same plans as last year, but this time throwing in some of the Sufferfest Videos to spice things up...which they certainly do.

Only downside I can see with TR is that if you do an outdoor ride you cannot get a credit for the TSS in your profile, although this is something they are working on.

But all in all, a big thumbs up from me.




As there seems to be a group for everything else these days, and it would be interesting to see how people get on with their FTPs, here's the link for the Pistonheads - Pedal Powered group I've just set up on Trainerroad.

ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Craig I am assuming you are well below 80kg, looking at your w/kg!

Chicken Chaser

7,744 posts

223 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Ive never used TR but I am using Zwift and training using virtual power. It might not be wholly accurate but against itself with the same variables (same resistance, tyre pressures etc) then it is looking very accurate. Each ride i'm putting out similar figures for each time interval.

I've been back riding regularly for about a month now and tied that in with buying Zwift. I do find it keeps my interest and i'm pushing myself further. I did an FTP test yesterday and it showed 206w.

Whats a realistic power gain over the course of 6 months? 50w? I need to lose some weight also as I'm currently 80kg and should be around 74kg

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
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You can probably expect 10-20w tomorrow if that's the first time you've done an FTP test - it takes a few tries to learn to do the test well wink

As a matter of what you can expect to gain, it very very much depends on what your current fitness is, and your background, and how / what you train. Nobody can give you a number. Unlikely you'll add 50% though.

Chicken Chaser

7,744 posts

223 months

Tuesday 10th January 2017
quotequote all
upsidedownmark said:
You can probably expect 10-20w tomorrow if that's the first time you've done an FTP test - it takes a few tries to learn to do the test well wink

As a matter of what you can expect to gain, it very very much depends on what your current fitness is, and your background, and how / what you train. Nobody can give you a number. Unlikely you'll add 50% though.
50w was more my target, so effectively 25% I do think I could have gone harder for longer as I was finishing stronger. Its a bit of a balance getting it right so that you've got just enough. My FTP therefore is probably a bit higher.