El cheapo chimney liner
Discussion
princeperch said:
Thanks chaps. For those that got their chimney lined and who posted here, what
Liner did you get?
11 metres of 5" Duraflue 316Liner did you get?
http://duraflue.co.uk/
Paid £325 for the complete kit and fitted it with a friend (He's done loads.) Kit included the tapered cone to help it up.
We chose to feed it up the chimney with Him on the roof and me down. He said it was the easiest He'd done and He hardly did any pulling with me doing the pushing.
Is it not possible to buy flexible stainless flue in one complete length?
In France we buy a twin wall flexible stainless steel flue but solid flue in one meter lengths is available also.
Most times it's just a matter of attaching a rope ,feed it down from the top of the chimney and the someone down below pulls while the person up top feeds it down.
I suppose it's all down to the size and shape of the internal part of the chimney.
Some of the prices quoted above are very expensive.
In France we buy a twin wall flexible stainless steel flue but solid flue in one meter lengths is available also.
Most times it's just a matter of attaching a rope ,feed it down from the top of the chimney and the someone down below pulls while the person up top feeds it down.
I suppose it's all down to the size and shape of the internal part of the chimney.
Some of the prices quoted above are very expensive.
dickymint said:
princeperch said:
Thanks chaps. For those that got their chimney lined and who posted here, what
Liner did you get?
11 metres of 5" Duraflue 316Liner did you get?
http://duraflue.co.uk/
Paid £325 for the complete kit and fitted it with a friend (He's done loads.) Kit included the tapered cone to help it up.
We chose to feed it up the chimney with Him on the roof and me down. He said it was the easiest He'd done and He hardly did any pulling with me doing the pushing.
princeperch said:
dickymint said:
princeperch said:
Thanks chaps. For those that got their chimney lined and who posted here, what
Liner did you get?
11 metres of 5" Duraflue 316Liner did you get?
http://duraflue.co.uk/
Paid £325 for the complete kit and fitted it with a friend (He's done loads.) Kit included the tapered cone to help it up.
We chose to feed it up the chimney with Him on the roof and me down. He said it was the easiest He'd done and He hardly did any pulling with me doing the pushing.
Another mate who fits oil/solid fuel systems for a living owes me a favour and has agreed to inspect it and sign off. The same "mate" gave me a quote for £1200 to supply and fit to my existing fire! which man maths says £800 quid for labour
princeperch said:
I've got to change the chimney pot over too as well as bunging the liner down but at least we can get to the stack easily enough through on of my loft windows
What, exactly, do you foresee as being easy about that?! I assume you have, at the very least, a suitable roof ladder and a way of getting it, the new pot, a bucket of mortar and tools up there? This is not the kind of game to play with just steel toed boots and a jaunty attitude as roofs are slippery. And I say this as someone who is happy sat on top of houses, as even the most comfortable looking roof will make your hips cramp after a little while if you're not supported correctly.PS, I don't care how over the top that might sound. A roof is a long way up, and if you slip you're probably f
ked.All fair points
My mate was a builder now a surveyor, he roughly knows what he's doing
You can almost reach out and touch the chimney stack its that close to the window, got a suitable ladder to go out the loft, and will also have an 8m ladder below as a precaution if it goes wrong and he needs to get off the roof
(I won't be going on the root myself!)
My mate was a builder now a surveyor, he roughly knows what he's doing
You can almost reach out and touch the chimney stack its that close to the window, got a suitable ladder to go out the loft, and will also have an 8m ladder below as a precaution if it goes wrong and he needs to get off the roof
(I won't be going on the root myself!)
princeperch said:
All fair points
My mate was a builder now a surveyor, he roughly knows what he's doing
You can almost reach out and touch the chimney stack its that close to the window, got a suitable ladder to go out the loft, and will also have an 8m ladder below as a precaution if it goes wrong and he needs to get off the roof
(I won't be going on the root myself!)
Please, for your mate's sake, beg/borrow/steal/whatever a roof ladder. If he's an ex-builder, I'm sure he can get hold of one for the price of a few beers. Leaning out of a nice, safe loft window and being able to almost touch the bottom of the stack means it is well out of working reach. The 8m ladder below is no use to him, as it won't stop anything from happening, unless he has the roof ladder to keep him in place. Even then, if it's 8m to the eaves, I'd want to be strapped to the roof as fitting a pot isn't a one handed job!My mate was a builder now a surveyor, he roughly knows what he's doing
You can almost reach out and touch the chimney stack its that close to the window, got a suitable ladder to go out the loft, and will also have an 8m ladder below as a precaution if it goes wrong and he needs to get off the roof
(I won't be going on the root myself!)
I fitted my own - used climbing harness and ropes (suitably protected from fraying/cutting).
If you can pull it up that is easier than pulling down because being balanced on the chimney trying to manipulate 10m+ of flue can be a bit tricky. As long as you have enough space in the chimney for it to come through easily.
If it is tight then being able to have someone swinging on it to pull it down works well.
I've seen a lot of very badly fitted ones by pros. Fairly common seems to be putting the flues in upside down.
Dont forget suitable alarms in the rooms.
If you can pull it up that is easier than pulling down because being balanced on the chimney trying to manipulate 10m+ of flue can be a bit tricky. As long as you have enough space in the chimney for it to come through easily.
If it is tight then being able to have someone swinging on it to pull it down works well.
I've seen a lot of very badly fitted ones by pros. Fairly common seems to be putting the flues in upside down.
Dont forget suitable alarms in the rooms.
TooLateForAName said:
I thought the regs said you were supposed to use a minimum of 6" for a woodburner?
If it's DEFRA approved, and only burns wood, then you're allowed a 5" flue. Of course, no-one is going to know what you burn, but the Building Control person might want to see the DEFRA cert.......
I have just received a very strange reply from the building control officer of my council who seems to be conceding that he, as a building control officer, isn't in a position to approve the stove on his own in his capacity as, er, building control officer. he also seems to be trying to circumvent the fixed cost building control notice. its all very odd.
Dear Mr Perch,
We are not in a position to take responsibility for the safe installation of solid fuelled stoves. Nevertheless, we have a duty to ensure that all reasonable steps have been taken to ensure that the installation is safe and complies with the requirements of Part J of the Building Regulations.
Normally, the person on whose behalf the work is being carried our would employ an installer registered with one of the competent person schemes recognised by the Government (APHC, Benchmark, BECSA, Certsure, HETAS, NAPIT, OFTEC or Stroma), who would carry out all the necessary checks during installation and issue a certificate to confirm that the installation is safe and compliant.
When an installation is carried out by an installer not registered with one of the competent person schemes, a building regulations application must be deposited with the local authority and the applicant must demonstrate to the local authority that the installation is safe and satisfactory. There will be a charge due based on the cost of the works, including the cost of the appliance and flue.
To do this, the local authority can inspect some of the physical elements, but the applicant must provide supplementary evidence, from a person who is qualified to do so, that the installation: appliance, flues and chimneys are safe and compliant. The supplementary evidence will consist of a series of test reports undertaken and signed by a suitably qualified person, who may be an independent engineer who is a member of one of the relevant competent persons schemes or an appropriately trained chimney sweep who is a member of a trade organisation such as NACS or APICS.
The tests and test reports required are:
1. A visual test of the flue, or if not visible, a coring ball or sweeping test.
2. For any appliance other than an open fire, a spillage test.
3. A smoke test of the flue.
The local authority would only be able to issue a completion certificate once the inspections of the physical characteristics and measures have been carried out by the local authority and copies of appropriate test reports have been received and deemed to be satisfactory.
I hope this answers your queries.
Dear Mr Perch,
We are not in a position to take responsibility for the safe installation of solid fuelled stoves. Nevertheless, we have a duty to ensure that all reasonable steps have been taken to ensure that the installation is safe and complies with the requirements of Part J of the Building Regulations.
Normally, the person on whose behalf the work is being carried our would employ an installer registered with one of the competent person schemes recognised by the Government (APHC, Benchmark, BECSA, Certsure, HETAS, NAPIT, OFTEC or Stroma), who would carry out all the necessary checks during installation and issue a certificate to confirm that the installation is safe and compliant.
When an installation is carried out by an installer not registered with one of the competent person schemes, a building regulations application must be deposited with the local authority and the applicant must demonstrate to the local authority that the installation is safe and satisfactory. There will be a charge due based on the cost of the works, including the cost of the appliance and flue.
To do this, the local authority can inspect some of the physical elements, but the applicant must provide supplementary evidence, from a person who is qualified to do so, that the installation: appliance, flues and chimneys are safe and compliant. The supplementary evidence will consist of a series of test reports undertaken and signed by a suitably qualified person, who may be an independent engineer who is a member of one of the relevant competent persons schemes or an appropriately trained chimney sweep who is a member of a trade organisation such as NACS or APICS.
The tests and test reports required are:
1. A visual test of the flue, or if not visible, a coring ball or sweeping test.
2. For any appliance other than an open fire, a spillage test.
3. A smoke test of the flue.
The local authority would only be able to issue a completion certificate once the inspections of the physical characteristics and measures have been carried out by the local authority and copies of appropriate test reports have been received and deemed to be satisfactory.
I hope this answers your queries.
my response:
Dear lazy building controller,
Thanks for your prompt response.
I am a bit confused.
I thought that the role of Building Control is to ensure notifiable works (such as the install of a stove) meets the building regulations.
Part J of the building regulations states in the "Notification of Work" section that the "self-certification scheme" (by a HETAS professional) is an exception to notifying work to Building Control.
If I were to find a HETAS installer to sign off on my stove, then I clearly wouldn’t need to pay building control anything.
I am aware of colleagues who have had their local council inspect similar installations in the past and I am a bit concerned that Building Control appear to be suggesting that there is no expertise available in house to assess if the installation meets building regulations or not.
I was anticipating your response would be along the lines that you would attend, inspect the physical aspects of the install, together with a type 1 smoke test and a form detailing the installation as per the Appendix in the building regulations.
I appreciate that this is something you and your colleagues might not be faced with very often, but can you have a rethink and come back to me please. It seems duplicitous and against the requirements of the building regulations for me to have to pay a HETAS professional to come out and then have to pay Building Control to also come out.
I look forward to hearing from you
Best
P Perch Esq
Dear lazy building controller,
Thanks for your prompt response.
I am a bit confused.
I thought that the role of Building Control is to ensure notifiable works (such as the install of a stove) meets the building regulations.
Part J of the building regulations states in the "Notification of Work" section that the "self-certification scheme" (by a HETAS professional) is an exception to notifying work to Building Control.
If I were to find a HETAS installer to sign off on my stove, then I clearly wouldn’t need to pay building control anything.
I am aware of colleagues who have had their local council inspect similar installations in the past and I am a bit concerned that Building Control appear to be suggesting that there is no expertise available in house to assess if the installation meets building regulations or not.
I was anticipating your response would be along the lines that you would attend, inspect the physical aspects of the install, together with a type 1 smoke test and a form detailing the installation as per the Appendix in the building regulations.
I appreciate that this is something you and your colleagues might not be faced with very often, but can you have a rethink and come back to me please. It seems duplicitous and against the requirements of the building regulations for me to have to pay a HETAS professional to come out and then have to pay Building Control to also come out.
I look forward to hearing from you
Best
P Perch Esq
building control said:
I'm scared of fires and I want my mummy.
Christ. How can they even consider charging you when you still have to find a hetas man who will inspect and issue paperwork. I suspect you will struggle to find anyone hetas approved who's prepared to sign off DIY work anyway - same as getting an electrician to certify somebody else's first fix. andy43 said:
building control said:
I'm scared of fires and I want my mummy.
Christ. How can they even consider charging you when you still have to find a hetas man who will inspect and issue paperwork. I suspect you will struggle to find anyone hetas approved who's prepared to sign off DIY work anyway - same as getting an electrician to certify somebody else's first fix. what i'll be doing is tendering my 140 quid shortly to cover the building notice and then if we need to have a bun fight about whether he as the BC officer should be approving it or whether he really can insist on me having to pay 100/150? quid to someone to carry out the tests he say are required then that's what we will have to do..
Just as an aside - possible an unhelpful one, I'm not sure...
One of my oldest mates had his house burn down - completely down - just before christmas. Lost everything, but wasn't injured and was insured.
The cause was a poorly fitted cheap chimney liner.
His house is still a burned out shell whilst he deals with his insurance company - they've still not settled.
He was lucky his kids were not at home - anyone upstairs wouldn't have made it.
So it's just a view to say tread with care and get the job done properly rather than cheaply - and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass, just passing on some info.
One of my oldest mates had his house burn down - completely down - just before christmas. Lost everything, but wasn't injured and was insured.
The cause was a poorly fitted cheap chimney liner.
His house is still a burned out shell whilst he deals with his insurance company - they've still not settled.
He was lucky his kids were not at home - anyone upstairs wouldn't have made it.
So it's just a view to say tread with care and get the job done properly rather than cheaply - and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass, just passing on some info.
NDA said:
Just as an aside - possible an unhelpful one, I'm not sure...
One of my oldest mates had his house burn down - completely down - just before christmas. Lost everything, but wasn't injured and was insured.
The cause was a poorly fitted cheap chimney liner.
His house is still a burned out shell whilst he deals with his insurance company - they've still not settled.
He was lucky his kids were not at home - anyone upstairs wouldn't have made it.
So it's just a view to say tread with care and get the job done properly rather than cheaply - and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass, just passing on some info.
all noted, believe you me if I were truly going to do it on the cheap I would have just done it and told no one about it! I'm trying to play the game and do it properly but don't want to pay 140 quid to someone to simply measure the size of the hearth the stove sits on (which is basically what BC matey boy is proposing) after having paid a HETAS or registered sweep 150 quid to come and do the hard work!One of my oldest mates had his house burn down - completely down - just before christmas. Lost everything, but wasn't injured and was insured.
The cause was a poorly fitted cheap chimney liner.
His house is still a burned out shell whilst he deals with his insurance company - they've still not settled.
He was lucky his kids were not at home - anyone upstairs wouldn't have made it.
So it's just a view to say tread with care and get the job done properly rather than cheaply - and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass, just passing on some info.
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