Running out of hot water
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Also why is the hot water on heating it up all day long? Utter waste of £ on gas to heat it up. You simply do not need to do that.
Doesn't make much difference if the tank is well insulated as the boiler will only kick in if the stat on the tank drops below its setting.
Welshbeef said:
tr7v8 said:
OK but this wouldn't cover the hot water flow in the bathroom stopping at the same time.
Let's get the shower fixed first. Also why is the hot water on heating it up all day long? Utter waste of £ on gas to heat it up. You simply do not need to do that.
The tank is very well insulated & rarely fires the boiler. I tried both & it made no difference to the gas bill. The house is also occupied all day & night.
tr7v8 said:
But the two things are linked, eg no shower means no hot water in the bathroom, both feeds are from the hw tank. A bit of googling has hinted that the issue maybe limescale build up in the tank outlet. But why would that halt the flow after 3 minutes or 40 litres!
The tank is very well insulated & rarely fires the boiler. I tried both & it made no difference to the gas bill. The house is also occupied all day & night.
You have Br Gas boiler cover home are 400 call them out parts and labour covered. The tank is very well insulated & rarely fires the boiler. I tried both & it made no difference to the gas bill. The house is also occupied all day & night.
herewego said:
Did you say there was sheets of limescale in the cold tank? Is there something to put in the cold tank to dissolve the limescale?
It could be a chunk of that has dislodged and somehow found its way to causing issues in the bathroom. Edited by herewego on Wednesday 10th February 10:09
Probably worth changing the header tank - cheap as chips anyway and yours no doubt is 18++ years old and scaled up.
The hot water cylinder could also be really scaled up which may mean replacement.
bomma220 said:
Could you post the model number of the Mira shower please? Also where is the HW cylinder in relation to the shower,
eg ground floor / 1st floor, house or bungalow?
OK Shower is a Mira Event XS Thermostatic & it is above the bath, same floor (upstairs) as the HW tank.eg ground floor / 1st floor, house or bungalow?
Cold water tanks is immediately above.
Welshbeef said:
herewego said:
Did you say there was sheets of limescale in the cold tank? Is there something to put in the cold tank to dissolve the limescale?
It could be a chunk of that has dislodged and somehow found its way to causing issues in the bathroom. Edited by herewego on Wednesday 10th February 10:09
Probably worth changing the header tank - cheap as chips anyway and yours no doubt is 18++ years old and scaled up.
The hot water cylinder could also be really scaled up which may mean replacement.
Googled low pressure HW & there was a guy on Youtube saying that the neck of the HW tank fouls up with scale.
Since the hot water tank outlet is at the top it's unlikely to be blocked. The most likely is between the cold tank and hot tank. You can take the cold tank out and clean it out and refit it. The piping from the cold to hot tank probably more difficult.
Limescale is quite fragile so I wonder if tapping the piping with a piece of wood might break up the limescale. You'll need to clean the tank first though.
Limescale is quite fragile so I wonder if tapping the piping with a piece of wood might break up the limescale. You'll need to clean the tank first though.
herewego said:
Since the hot water tank outlet is at the top it's unlikely to be blocked. The most likely is between the cold tank and hot tank. You can take the cold tank out and clean it out and refit it. The piping from the cold to hot tank probably more difficult.
Limescale is quite fragile so I wonder if tapping the piping with a piece of wood might break up the limescale. You'll need to clean the tank first though.
But that doesn't explain 10-20mjns of hot water from the kitchen tap. There is only one exit pipe from the hot water tank thereafter it splits so if all are giving hot apart from the route to the bathroom I'd wager that's where something is wrongLimescale is quite fragile so I wonder if tapping the piping with a piece of wood might break up the limescale. You'll need to clean the tank first though.
Ok, first here's the installation / maintenance manual for your shower 
http://www.free-instruction-manuals.com/pdf/pa_104...
Section 11 you'll see you have a filter fitted. It's fairly straightforward to clean, just take your time with it.
This is the first port of call. Now if the filter's gunged up it could produce the symptoms you have. Without boring you, basically when the shower's running & the water can't flow freely due to the blocked filter the shower pump can create a vacuum in the vent pipe which 'holds' the water back from the shower & other outlets, especially those closest to it. (The flow will return after a time as the vacuum dissipates.)
Give it a go, it needs to be eliminated before you start pulling the whole issue apart !
Hope this helps
http://www.free-instruction-manuals.com/pdf/pa_104...
Section 11 you'll see you have a filter fitted. It's fairly straightforward to clean, just take your time with it.
This is the first port of call. Now if the filter's gunged up it could produce the symptoms you have. Without boring you, basically when the shower's running & the water can't flow freely due to the blocked filter the shower pump can create a vacuum in the vent pipe which 'holds' the water back from the shower & other outlets, especially those closest to it. (The flow will return after a time as the vacuum dissipates.)
Give it a go, it needs to be eliminated before you start pulling the whole issue apart !
Hope this helps
Edited by bomma220 on Wednesday 10th February 16:44
Bomma220 thanks for the comments but it isn't the filter. If the filter was blocked you get cold water out of the shower, the previous even had that. Also any vacuum would be pump to filter all of 20 or so mm.
The plan today was to buy some Fernox descaller & descale the HW circuit. worth a try for £60 anyway.
But now completely confused just had a shower & all is back to normal, full water flow on bathroom taps (1litre in 3 secs or so) & the taps work once you've had a leisurely shower & turned the shower off.
So Fernox purchase on-hold at the moment!
The plan today was to buy some Fernox descaller & descale the HW circuit. worth a try for £60 anyway.
But now completely confused just had a shower & all is back to normal, full water flow on bathroom taps (1litre in 3 secs or so) & the taps work once you've had a leisurely shower & turned the shower off.
So Fernox purchase on-hold at the moment!
Latest update!
Yes we are back where we were before, shower runs for around 3 mins tops before it starts to surge & splutters to a halt with the pump screaming. At this point there is no flow to any of the HW taps in the house. It will eventually come back after quite a few minutes.
Flow from all hot taps is poor, starts OK but within a few seconds seriously diminishes to a trickle.
Tried linking hot & cold taps together today, made no difference. Convinced it must be lime scale in cold feed to hw water tank or at top of tank.
Have just ordered 6kg of Fernox DS3 & have an appointment with draining it all down & flushing with the DS3 mix.
Yes we are back where we were before, shower runs for around 3 mins tops before it starts to surge & splutters to a halt with the pump screaming. At this point there is no flow to any of the HW taps in the house. It will eventually come back after quite a few minutes.
Flow from all hot taps is poor, starts OK but within a few seconds seriously diminishes to a trickle.
Tried linking hot & cold taps together today, made no difference. Convinced it must be lime scale in cold feed to hw water tank or at top of tank.
Have just ordered 6kg of Fernox DS3 & have an appointment with draining it all down & flushing with the DS3 mix.
We had similar symptoms a little while ago.
I eventually found a blockage behind a filter in the cold water connection to the shower pump. This was throttling back the cold water supply to the point where the mixer valves couldn't deliver at temperature and the flow to all showers stopped. It also momentarily affected the bathroom taps, but I never figured out why.
The offending item was a tiny wad of plastic tape. I think it had fallen into the cold water tank and then been sucked into the pipe.
Worth a look.
I eventually found a blockage behind a filter in the cold water connection to the shower pump. This was throttling back the cold water supply to the point where the mixer valves couldn't deliver at temperature and the flow to all showers stopped. It also momentarily affected the bathroom taps, but I never figured out why.
The offending item was a tiny wad of plastic tape. I think it had fallen into the cold water tank and then been sucked into the pipe.
Worth a look.
OK guys finally fixed it. 6Kg of Fernox DS3 descaler, put into the drained cold water header tank & drew it down through the hot taps. Then left for 6 hours with the boiler running. After around 4 hours of doing 15 minute drains of a pint or so the taps started running at full flow. I also cleaned probably a couple of kilos of scale from the header tank, manually using a dustpan & bucket. Ha to clean all the filters after, both shower & mixer taps but it all works, best hot water flow for years. Thanks for the suggestions guys, got there in the end.
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