Has anyone build raised border using (new) oak sleepers
Discussion
Here is my experience...
Bought our present house in 2012 with a beautiful terraced garden at the back. Previous owners had shelled out £20k+ in 2006 - 45 treated oak sleepers over 4 terraces, mature bushes, various ferns, palms and exotic grass.
Cue 2016 - every single sleeper is rotten through the core.
Bit the bullet and ordered 60 Jarrah untreated sleepers, which were 60 to 70 years old. The wood was so hard, the only way to cut it was using a diamond blade on a petrol powered cutter. We fixed them into the ground by drilling through them and driving a steel rod another 1.25m underground. All 45 original sleepers replaced in 2 days, and a new terrace was dug out in another 2 days. Total cost was in the region of £4k...
Don't expect any seepage - Jarrah sleepers are untreated. They look nicely weathered and I think will outlast the house.
Bought our present house in 2012 with a beautiful terraced garden at the back. Previous owners had shelled out £20k+ in 2006 - 45 treated oak sleepers over 4 terraces, mature bushes, various ferns, palms and exotic grass.
Cue 2016 - every single sleeper is rotten through the core.
Bit the bullet and ordered 60 Jarrah untreated sleepers, which were 60 to 70 years old. The wood was so hard, the only way to cut it was using a diamond blade on a petrol powered cutter. We fixed them into the ground by drilling through them and driving a steel rod another 1.25m underground. All 45 original sleepers replaced in 2 days, and a new terrace was dug out in another 2 days. Total cost was in the region of £4k...
Don't expect any seepage - Jarrah sleepers are untreated. They look nicely weathered and I think will outlast the house.
wolfracesonic said:
+1 on the reclaimed Jarrah. They do look more rustic than new oak, but by god they're tough. The ones in the pic are around 6 years old are in the same shape as when I installed them.
Looks really good! I could not see a single bit of rot on the ones that I bought and they had already spent years and years in the ground...
They are likely to be preservative treated softwood.
I imagine the 'Tan' part refers to Tanalised. Tanalised is a bit of an old expression and is generally taken as meaning preservative treated. There is a modern preservative called Tanalith (not to be confused with the older, now defunked tanalised).
They may last well, they may not, it really depends on how much preservative they have pumped in, how concentrated it is, and what timber species has been used.
So, for instance, pressure treated spruce (with is not a very permeable timber) using a low concentration of Tanalith E will probably be rotten in a few years. If they have used redwood (which is much more permeable and so takes treatment better) and treated it with a concentrated formula, you might get 15+ years out of them.
You should ask them what timber species they are, what treatment was used (and them just saying they are tanalised is no good as it is all but meaningless) and what sort of use class they have been treated for.
I imagine the 'Tan' part refers to Tanalised. Tanalised is a bit of an old expression and is generally taken as meaning preservative treated. There is a modern preservative called Tanalith (not to be confused with the older, now defunked tanalised).
They may last well, they may not, it really depends on how much preservative they have pumped in, how concentrated it is, and what timber species has been used.
So, for instance, pressure treated spruce (with is not a very permeable timber) using a low concentration of Tanalith E will probably be rotten in a few years. If they have used redwood (which is much more permeable and so takes treatment better) and treated it with a concentrated formula, you might get 15+ years out of them.
You should ask them what timber species they are, what treatment was used (and them just saying they are tanalised is no good as it is all but meaningless) and what sort of use class they have been treated for.
We built raised beds with pressure-treated softwood in 2008, mostly OK though some visible rotting in the ends of ones on the ground. Only cost a few hundred quid and couple of days back-breaking labour!
Definitely recommend Timberlock screws for joining them, but drill pilot holes to make 'em easier to drive in.
We also put LED lights (from Wickes afaik) in the lowest sleepers, fairly easy to fit and look really good - tho protect the cables inside the beds. Probably make 'em rot faster though!
Definitely recommend Timberlock screws for joining them, but drill pilot holes to make 'em easier to drive in.
We also put LED lights (from Wickes afaik) in the lowest sleepers, fairly easy to fit and look really good - tho protect the cables inside the beds. Probably make 'em rot faster though!
Mr GrimNasty said:
I don't know how much of a problem reclaimed sleepers really are, but if you ever sell and the surveyor spots them, they will probably get a negative comment, so if you don't have them already, don't get them.
why-there are only sleepers or am i missing something?martin
p1doc said:
why-there are only sleepers or am i missing something?
martin
Because creosote has proven carcinogenic. Its sale to the public has been banned since 2003, as has the placement of creosote-treated timbers in playgrounds or other areas where frequent contact with skin might occur.martin
I'd expect any such substances to be made aware of on a surveyors report just as the existence of asbestos would. Its a matter of disclosure, but the existence may be a concern to certain buyers (or at least get them to request the articles be removed).
kryten22uk said:
Because creosote has proven carcinogenic. Its sale to the public has been banned since 2003, as has the placement of creosote-treated timbers in playgrounds or other areas where frequent contact with skin might occur.
I'd expect any such substances to be made aware of on a surveyors report just as the existence of asbestos would. Its a matter of disclosure, but the existence may be a concern to certain buyers (or at least get them to request the articles be removed).
ahh ok thanksI'd expect any such substances to be made aware of on a surveyors report just as the existence of asbestos would. Its a matter of disclosure, but the existence may be a concern to certain buyers (or at least get them to request the articles be removed).
martin
kryten22uk said:
p1doc said:
why-there are only sleepers or am i missing something?
martin
Because creosote has proven carcinogenic. Its sale to the public has been banned since 2003, as has the placement of creosote-treated timbers in playgrounds or other areas where frequent contact with skin might occur.martin
I'd expect any such substances to be made aware of on a surveyors report just as the existence of asbestos would. Its a matter of disclosure, but the existence may be a concern to certain buyers (or at least get them to request the articles be removed).
SilverSpur said:
Old railway sleepers are often contaminated with heavy metals and arsenic and the like. However, wooden railway sleepers haven't been used in decades now I think....?
Correct on the nasty stuff side of it. Creosote and arsenic and heavy metals were used as preservative treatments for quite a while (still are in some cases) but were phased out for more 'friendly' preservatives (which btw don't really work as well!).Timber is still used a lot as railway sleepers. Granted other materials are used as well, but timber sleepers are still being installed on the railway network today.
Skodasupercar said:
Timber is still used a lot as railway sleepers. Granted other materials are used as well, but timber sleepers are still being installed on the railway network today.
that's quite a surprise, I've only ever seen concrete. I'm glad its still used in a funny way. Thanks for the info.
Craikeybaby said:
After a recommendation from a PHer I used Woodblocx to build a raised bed. It is treated softwood and meant to last well. 2 years in and ours is still looking good anyway.
The initial cost is higher than sleepers, but it comes with all the fixings and if I managed to get it built with my wife I'm sure anyone can do it!
Raised bed complete by Lewis Craik, on Flickr
I've used Woodblocx too, probably spent around 2k to make 2 large planters a lawn edge and a side bed. The kit is easy and if you prepare the area it's very difficult to go wrong.The initial cost is higher than sleepers, but it comes with all the fixings and if I managed to get it built with my wife I'm sure anyone can do it!
Raised bed complete by Lewis Craik, on Flickr
We've just got most of the way through building a low rise bed to border the garden and to allow us to level out the lawn. Couple of final bits to finish off but i'm leaving the last section until all the soil has been sorted.
Is there much I can do to the back of the sleepers that will be facing the soil?
Is there much I can do to the back of the sleepers that will be facing the soil?
Edited by MrChips on Thursday 26th May 23:04
MrChips said:
We've just got most of the way through building a low rise bed to border the garden and to allow us to level out the lawn. Couple of final bits to finish off but i'm leaving the last section until all the soil has been sorted.
Is there much I can do to the back of the sleepers that will be facing the soil?
Another tier (ie 2 beds) would look great there. Is there much I can do to the back of the sleepers that will be facing the soil?
Edited by MrChips on Thursday 26th May 23:04
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