Re-roof converting on an old bungelow?
Discussion
Hi All -
We moved last year to a bungelow - it's a 4 bed & on a decent sized plot, so good scope for future extension.
It would seem to have had a dorma squeezed into the original roofspace giving one upstairs room (a weird shape) of about 250 square foot.
Once we were in, we realised that there is very, very little insulation between the ceiling of the upstairs and the roof - such that as soon as the sun shines the temp in the upstairs gets to high 20s an over 30 in the height of summer. Naturally in the winter its an ice box.
Add to this that the roof leaks into our (downstairs) bedroom & we come to the conclusion that it clearly need to be re-done (rather than repaired & insulated)
We are contemplating trying to maximise the upstairs space (or to try to get over the additional 250 square floor that we currently have up there)
As funds are relatively restricted, current thought is to do it in two stages:
1) re-shape the roof space & insulate (possibly a mansard conversion) to create additional c. 500sqft of living space (this year)
2) fitting the stud walls plumbing and finishing to accomodate 2x beds & a bathroom up there (next year)
want to get a real beermat steer on what each stage is likely to cost & whether we're crazy to be thinking about doing it over two building phases - are there economies of scale in having one firm do the lot or would the main building work normally be carried of by separate firm to the fit and finish stuff?
would it cost, say £40k to do in one, but 25k each half? or are they way low?
Really don't have much of an idea as to what to expect - so any tales / experience of similar welcome.
Below are the floorplans as they currently are:
Cheers
ETA: (Bedroom 4 is above the dining area, all to the left of the chimneys)
We moved last year to a bungelow - it's a 4 bed & on a decent sized plot, so good scope for future extension.
It would seem to have had a dorma squeezed into the original roofspace giving one upstairs room (a weird shape) of about 250 square foot.
Once we were in, we realised that there is very, very little insulation between the ceiling of the upstairs and the roof - such that as soon as the sun shines the temp in the upstairs gets to high 20s an over 30 in the height of summer. Naturally in the winter its an ice box.
Add to this that the roof leaks into our (downstairs) bedroom & we come to the conclusion that it clearly need to be re-done (rather than repaired & insulated)
We are contemplating trying to maximise the upstairs space (or to try to get over the additional 250 square floor that we currently have up there)
As funds are relatively restricted, current thought is to do it in two stages:
1) re-shape the roof space & insulate (possibly a mansard conversion) to create additional c. 500sqft of living space (this year)
2) fitting the stud walls plumbing and finishing to accomodate 2x beds & a bathroom up there (next year)
want to get a real beermat steer on what each stage is likely to cost & whether we're crazy to be thinking about doing it over two building phases - are there economies of scale in having one firm do the lot or would the main building work normally be carried of by separate firm to the fit and finish stuff?
would it cost, say £40k to do in one, but 25k each half? or are they way low?
Really don't have much of an idea as to what to expect - so any tales / experience of similar welcome.
Below are the floorplans as they currently are:
Cheers
ETA: (Bedroom 4 is above the dining area, all to the left of the chimneys)
Edited by BERGS2 on Thursday 19th May 12:30
We're in the process of reroofing our bungalow for upstairs living area (see my build thread). Depending on your area, your costs look reasonable. We've created about 70m2 space and the quote was £65k, which included everything from start to finish, including the fitting of two bathrooms (excl sanitaryware).
Interesting floorplan, I think I'd be trying to work out what the future downstairs layout should be in conjunction with the upstairs. That looks awkward to me, bathroom by the front door and a bedroom off the lounge. Feels like it needs a bit of a re-org downstairs which might give a better location for the stairs to rise and serve multiple bedrooms (they current come up to the left hand gable wall right?)
Loads of potential there!
Loads of potential there!
kryten22uk said:
We're in the process of reroofing our bungalow for upstairs living area (see my build thread). Depending on your area, your costs look reasonable. We've created about 70m2 space and the quote was £65k, which included everything from start to finish, including the fitting of two bathrooms (excl sanitaryware).
will follow your build thread with interest - looks very similar to what we are intending :-)area-wise, we're in Surrey
Lesgrandepotato said:
Interesting floorplan, I think I'd be trying to work out what the future downstairs layout should be in conjunction with the upstairs. That looks awkward to me, bathroom by the front door and a bedroom off the lounge. Feels like it needs a bit of a re-org downstairs which might give a better location for the stairs to rise and serve multiple bedrooms (they current come up to the left hand gable wall right?)
Loads of potential there!
Yeah - the downstairs layout is a right mess! - though oddly - as we've lived in it, have got used to the quirks and foibles - the stairs do lead into the gable wall which then gives a cut off door to the upstairs....hardly ideal!Loads of potential there!
The bedroom off the lounge is the kids games room - though they rarely use it as its such a long way (relatively) from the kitchen.
Any good software that lets you play around with layouts/designs etc.?
roofer said:
Same footprint - yours is much more sensible layout! what was the 'before' like?If you dont mind my asking - how much is the roof element of your works? (i'm guessing you are in the trade) looks very like what we're going to try to achieve.
Did you have to raise the roofline at all?
roofer said:
Before we started
40 degree pitch, plenty of headroom.
About 20 k in so far. Expect another 20 to finish.
is that for the loft, or for your full project? 40 degree pitch, plenty of headroom.
About 20 k in so far. Expect another 20 to finish.
ours is much more shallow angle (per the below), so i think we'll have to raise the roofline - which i guess means full planning....
how much square footage are you gaining in the upstairs?
roofer said:
40 k finished, but I have called in some serious favours.
Looks like you are not far off 40 degrees there, but you'll need to lose the hips on each end to gain space.
We've gained 75 M2 of floor area, that's without including eaves storage.
Sweet! Looks like you are not far off 40 degrees there, but you'll need to lose the hips on each end to gain space.
We've gained 75 M2 of floor area, that's without including eaves storage.
That why (new convert) bungelows rock! What does that work out as as cost per sq ft - about 50 quid?
Our ground floor 'footprint' is c. 1200 square foot - figure if we can get about 800 in the roof, it'll be enough for a couple of bedrooms and a bathroom.
all starting to look decidedly feasible :-)
I guess once we've had the drawings done, it becomes a slippery slope!
Whats the best order re- planning/drawings/refining etc.?
I remember a pal who was in the renovations business saying to 'over do' the initial plan on the basis that if rejected, your 'compromise' is more likely to be accepted - though that sounds very disingenuous.... (then again, this is the property world..... )
BERGS2 said:
Whats the best order re- planning/drawings/refining etc.?
I remember a pal who was in the renovations business saying to 'over do' the initial plan on the basis that if rejected, your 'compromise' is more likely to be accepted - though that sounds very disingenuous.... (then again, this is the property world..... )
There's only really one order. Do do the drawings, refine to exactly what you want, and submit the planning application. You can't do it any other way! You dont want to be stuck thinking about changes after the planning has gone in, as you'll have to resubmit (like we had to do, when we decided to add a bit extra).I remember a pal who was in the renovations business saying to 'over do' the initial plan on the basis that if rejected, your 'compromise' is more likely to be accepted - though that sounds very disingenuous.... (then again, this is the property world..... )
I'm not sure the advice from your pal is that sound. What does over-doing it actually mean? If you design something you dont actually want, because you intended to tone it down in a negotiation, then your bluff could be called when they pass the original application, and you end up having to build turrets on your roof. Just design what you want and go with it. Where it does pay to add loads to the application is with the extras. For example, if you wanted (at some point in the distant future) to redo your driveway, build a garage, or resite an oil tank, or fell a tree etc, then put it all in the same plan, as firstly it avoids lots of separate 8-week waits, but also the ancillary things don't get that closely looked at when bundled together. Once you've started a project, then planning permission is practically indefinite. So doing your roofwork would give you the indefinite timeframe to do garage/drive in future.
Edited by kryten22uk on Monday 23 May 11:41
OK so here's the first draft floorplan that we've had done:
would be interested in any views on it, as once we kick it off ther'll be no going back!
Its basically a large box dormer on the rear but not over the existing extension. As such the 'room' to the right on the upstairs floorplan is not technically useable (doesn't bother us as we just wanted the three bedrooms upstairs.
We'd be losing the (wierd) downstairs bathroom to accomodate flipping the stairs to a more traditional form...
anyhows please let me know what you think and if we're missing any tricks on the layout.
(porch is likely to be added to avoid the front door leading straight through to the dining room)
would be interested in any views on it, as once we kick it off ther'll be no going back!
Its basically a large box dormer on the rear but not over the existing extension. As such the 'room' to the right on the upstairs floorplan is not technically useable (doesn't bother us as we just wanted the three bedrooms upstairs.
We'd be losing the (wierd) downstairs bathroom to accomodate flipping the stairs to a more traditional form...
anyhows please let me know what you think and if we're missing any tricks on the layout.
(porch is likely to be added to avoid the front door leading straight through to the dining room)
It's a bit of an odd layout overall.
A bedroom opening off the lounge isn't ideal. Unless it's actually a study or something like that. I would consider dropping that room making the kitchen bigger. A warm family kitchen with space for a sofa (or even a dining table!) can be a lovely space.
The bedroom with the ensuite is also a bit odd. A lot of people will be coming through that bedroom to use the shower. Have you thought about combining those two 'wet' rooms tongeher and making them open into the hallway? Call me a traditionalist, but ensuites don't work in the ratio of plumbing to bedrooms you have, as noted above.
Upstairs, the bedroom with only skylights is going to be a horrible, horrible room (sorry!) to occupy. And I'm wondering what the room to the right of it is, and how much through traffic will be generated.
I really think it needs a bit of a rethink before you commit to anything.
A bedroom opening off the lounge isn't ideal. Unless it's actually a study or something like that. I would consider dropping that room making the kitchen bigger. A warm family kitchen with space for a sofa (or even a dining table!) can be a lovely space.
The bedroom with the ensuite is also a bit odd. A lot of people will be coming through that bedroom to use the shower. Have you thought about combining those two 'wet' rooms tongeher and making them open into the hallway? Call me a traditionalist, but ensuites don't work in the ratio of plumbing to bedrooms you have, as noted above.
Upstairs, the bedroom with only skylights is going to be a horrible, horrible room (sorry!) to occupy. And I'm wondering what the room to the right of it is, and how much through traffic will be generated.
I really think it needs a bit of a rethink before you commit to anything.
I agree there are too many bedrooms and not enough living.
its not clear which is the master bedroom and I think you need a bedroom upstairs with en-suite. Sacrifice the room with no windows to create this. You could split the other large bedroom in 2 if number of bedrooms is a priority.
Make the dining area a WC and coats cupboard.
Change living room to kitchen/family room. Change kitchen and utility to 2nd living room/dining, and bedroom 3 to a utility room.
its not clear which is the master bedroom and I think you need a bedroom upstairs with en-suite. Sacrifice the room with no windows to create this. You could split the other large bedroom in 2 if number of bedrooms is a priority.
Make the dining area a WC and coats cupboard.
Change living room to kitchen/family room. Change kitchen and utility to 2nd living room/dining, and bedroom 3 to a utility room.
TA14 said:
You appear to be proposing a lot of bedroom space but not much bathroom space either in numbers of bathrooms (inc en-suite) or the m2. Is that the ratio that you were seeking?
Ah - yeah - should caveat that this is the first phase - to sort out the upstairs for our three kids (currently 3, 5 & 7) In time, on the ground floor plan is to knock through the bedroom off the lounge into the kitchen and utility, together with using half the current lounge for an L-shaped kitchen/diner.
The two downstairs bedrooms will remain as is - but with an additional W/C in the front bedroom (bottom left) - to be a guest room.
your right - it is an odd layout, and difficult to envisage how its going to come together - hence after some advice!!
cheers all
Put a quarter landing at the top of the stairs and bring it round to the right. Make a small landing space with no natural light at the top of the stairs.
Upper bedroom on left stays the same.
Put a bigger, common upstairs bathroom off the stair landing. Connect to kitchen plumbing below for much cheapness.
On the middle / right side of the upstairs have one bedroom running along the front and one along the back, dog legging around the inner bathroom. If planning is stopping you from having dormers to the front, then at least stick a window in the gable end for the front bedroom.
Result = less upstairs circulation space, three big bedrooms, internal corridor (most efficient kind). Downside is that you've lost that odd room to the right, but who knows that that was for...
Upper bedroom on left stays the same.
Put a bigger, common upstairs bathroom off the stair landing. Connect to kitchen plumbing below for much cheapness.
On the middle / right side of the upstairs have one bedroom running along the front and one along the back, dog legging around the inner bathroom. If planning is stopping you from having dormers to the front, then at least stick a window in the gable end for the front bedroom.
Result = less upstairs circulation space, three big bedrooms, internal corridor (most efficient kind). Downside is that you've lost that odd room to the right, but who knows that that was for...
Cheers - all good grist for the mill....
big store room/man cave.
dxg said:
you've lost that odd room to the right, but who knows that that was for...
Well - the original building footprint didn't include the garage that has been converted (downstairs bedroom & loungue on the right of the floorplan), so under permitted development we can't go over the top of it.big store room/man cave.
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