Dry rot or wet rot?
Discussion
can anyone identify for me whether this is wet or dry rot?
Oh f
king hell. I'm just reading about dry rot and it says the spores are a fine, rust-coloured powder. My whole chimney breast is covered in that but I didn't know what it was. But I also have this on my walls:
How can a damp surveyor not spot things like this??
I've just found a link that says this is penetrating damp, which would cause the rot. Something that was picked up on the building survey was missing mortar on the chimney.
king hell. I'm just reading about dry rot and it says the spores are a fine, rust-coloured powder. My whole chimney breast is covered in that but I didn't know what it was. But I also have this on my walls:How can a damp surveyor not spot things like this??
I've just found a link that says this is penetrating damp, which would cause the rot. Something that was picked up on the building survey was missing mortar on the chimney.
Edited by Mercury00 on Sunday 29th May 15:41
I'd say dry rot too, especially as the timber appears to have 'split' across the grain. Saw it in a house I was working on once, found it beneath the bathroom floor. The more boards that were taken up, the worse it got - bloody stuff was everywhere.
Would there be no comeback on the surveyor for failing or neglecting to find this problem?
Would there be no comeback on the surveyor for failing or neglecting to find this problem?
The small print of the survey says that it gives no guarantees to the accuracy of the survey and that it's basically an estimation. But he does clearly state that no movement was present in the floor using the 'heel bounce' test. This is totally untrue, there was a good inch of movement on the floor, hence me pulling up the boards.
I found him on Which? And he was fking useless. I wonder if the bank would've given me the full mortgage if they knew the extent of the problems?
I found him on Which? And he was f
king useless. I wonder if the bank would've given me the full mortgage if they knew the extent of the problems?Is that joist the only place it's like that? If it's isolated I'd say it was more likely something slightly leaking from above for a long time, washing machine or fridge etc. It doesn't look like dry rot to me, more like rot that has dried out - if you get my meaning!
The wall just looks like a bit of damp that's broken down the render/plaster and left a few salt deposits, again not convinced it's dry rot.
You really need to strip back a bit more, the mycelium growth is usually pretty obvious, none evident in your pictures.
The wall just looks like a bit of damp that's broken down the render/plaster and left a few salt deposits, again not convinced it's dry rot.
You really need to strip back a bit more, the mycelium growth is usually pretty obvious, none evident in your pictures.
There's nothing above it though, the floor is at the bottom of the stairs. There's a radiator not far away but it doesn't look like it has ever leaked, plus you'd expect the floor to have dried out by now.
Edit: Actually now that you mention it, the next joist back, underneath the adjoining wall, is worse than this. But where could water come from to make the floor wet? It looks like only these two joists in this tiny three foot area are rotted.
Edit: Actually now that you mention it, the next joist back, underneath the adjoining wall, is worse than this. But where could water come from to make the floor wet? It looks like only these two joists in this tiny three foot area are rotted.
Edited by Mercury00 on Sunday 29th May 18:30
I don't have internet at the moment so can't put these up properly, but have a click on this album. It's four photos showing the area around the rot and the proximity to the radiator. Let me know what you think.
http://imgur.com/a/nDURc
http://imgur.com/a/nDURc
Looks more like wet rot to me (fairly typical of brown rot).
If it were dry rot you would normally see thin white fungal mycelium on the surface of the adjacent brick and on the wood. Could easily be a historic (or ongoing) water leak, possibly from the radiator.
Regardless, the treatment is similar which is to stop it getting wet. Clean the timber and any other locations where you can see mould or fungal growth, dry it out and then sister in some new timber to patch the rotten bits.
Dry rot still requires water, so if you find the leak and dry it out it will die. The only difference between wet rot and dry rot is that dry rot can take water from somewhere wet (like masonry) and transport that water to dry wood to then break it down.
If it were dry rot you would normally see thin white fungal mycelium on the surface of the adjacent brick and on the wood. Could easily be a historic (or ongoing) water leak, possibly from the radiator.
Regardless, the treatment is similar which is to stop it getting wet. Clean the timber and any other locations where you can see mould or fungal growth, dry it out and then sister in some new timber to patch the rotten bits.
Dry rot still requires water, so if you find the leak and dry it out it will die. The only difference between wet rot and dry rot is that dry rot can take water from somewhere wet (like masonry) and transport that water to dry wood to then break it down.
It's difficult to tell without seeing it in the flesh, but the absence of fungal strands and fruiting bodies suggest it's wet rot. The dust visible is not the rusty red spores created by Dry Rot, simply looks like powdered rotten wood, although could be wood boring weevil frass - they often infest decayed timber.
The really decayed joist next to the wall is perhaps affected by being too close to the wall, and there's no sign of any damp course beneath the wall plate. Is there sufficient ventilation to the floor void - air bricks in opposing walls?
The really decayed joist next to the wall is perhaps affected by being too close to the wall, and there's no sign of any damp course beneath the wall plate. Is there sufficient ventilation to the floor void - air bricks in opposing walls?
Air bricks on one wall is not good - the solid floored extension should have incorporated ducts to allow airflow through the floor void - it's worth thinking of doing it now.
The pipes should be insulated and properly supported beneath the floor, so it looks like it was not a great job, but the damage to the first joist looks like it was decayed before the pipe was drilled through. There's no sign of a leak, so I don't think a leak is the most likely source of the moisture - to me it appears lack of ventilation coupled with the absence of a damp course beneath the wall plate and probably beneath joist bearing ends.
The pipes should be insulated and properly supported beneath the floor, so it looks like it was not a great job, but the damage to the first joist looks like it was decayed before the pipe was drilled through. There's no sign of a leak, so I don't think a leak is the most likely source of the moisture - to me it appears lack of ventilation coupled with the absence of a damp course beneath the wall plate and probably beneath joist bearing ends.
Is it possible to get air bricks in a side wall (sorry, not aware if it is a semi, detached or a terrace) as that would give some through-flow if air.
If not, then the solid floor will need to be channeled out sufficient to allow a 100mm soil pipe to be buried in the hardcore, connecting the floor void to a new air brick; ideally you would do two trenches and install two pipes in a "typical" sized floor, but on, or two in the same trench, will suffice. Not complicated, but a slog and disruptive.
If not, then the solid floor will need to be channeled out sufficient to allow a 100mm soil pipe to be buried in the hardcore, connecting the floor void to a new air brick; ideally you would do two trenches and install two pipes in a "typical" sized floor, but on, or two in the same trench, will suffice. Not complicated, but a slog and disruptive.
Mercury00 said:
The small print of the survey says that it gives no guarantees to the accuracy of the survey and that it's basically an estimation. But he does clearly state that no movement was present in the floor using the 'heel bounce' test. This is totally untrue, there was a good inch of movement on the floor, hence me pulling up the boards.
I found him on Which? And he was fking useless. I wonder if the bank would've given me the full mortgage if they knew the extent of the problems?
Surveyors know they will miss things so most of them have their terms and conditions as tight as a ducks arse.I found him on Which? And he was f
king useless. I wonder if the bank would've given me the full mortgage if they knew the extent of the problems?So basically they can say anything and get away with it.
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