Large space lighting
Discussion
Hello,
Mrs Big Ben is currently in the process of setting up a soft play area locally to us. The building she has got is an empty shell so there is a lot of work to do and the budget is very tight.
I have a few lighting questions:
- 600 x 600 lights for fitting to suspended ceilings seem to be abundant and cheap. Can these also be suspended from chains like standard fluorescent tube fixtures ?
- LED lighting is preferred for running cost options but the install cost would be a lot higher, again these seem most cost effective in the 600 x 600 format.
Any other suggestions, thing of lighting a warehouse type space with fairly good natural light (during the day)
Ben
ETA this kind of fitting https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_M...
Mrs Big Ben is currently in the process of setting up a soft play area locally to us. The building she has got is an empty shell so there is a lot of work to do and the budget is very tight.
I have a few lighting questions:
- 600 x 600 lights for fitting to suspended ceilings seem to be abundant and cheap. Can these also be suspended from chains like standard fluorescent tube fixtures ?
- LED lighting is preferred for running cost options but the install cost would be a lot higher, again these seem most cost effective in the 600 x 600 format.
Any other suggestions, thing of lighting a warehouse type space with fairly good natural light (during the day)
Ben
ETA this kind of fitting https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_M...
Edited by BigBen on Tuesday 28th June 13:24
How high is the ceiling?
You can suspend the 600mm x 600mm LED panels, and can also get other sizes such as 1200mm x 600mm. The fittings you have linked to are usually used in areas with suspended ceilings.
If the building has a high roof / ceiling (as you would typically have in an industrial unit) you can suspend linear battens (fluorescent or LED) or low bays (LED, fluoresecnt or discharge lamps). The LED fittings tend to be more expensive to purchase than the other types of light fittings but they are cheaper to run. With the bonus of no ongoing maintenance in theory as there are no lamps to change.
You can get fittings and lighting control sensors with integral photo cell control so they take into account the ambient daylight and can switch off if the level of natural light is sufficient.
Will the project have to comply with the energy efficiency requirements of Part L of the building regulations? This may influence your options of luminaire types.
Don't forget the requirement for emergency lighting as you are open to the public.
You could approach an electrical wholesaler and ask if a lighting manufacturer could do a design for you. This is a service that is offered by national chains such as City Electrical Factors and YESSS as they have in house lighting designers as part of the company.
You have several choices, so it may be worthwhile getting an electrical contractor involved, explain you want various options pricing and seeing how they compare to your budget.
You can suspend the 600mm x 600mm LED panels, and can also get other sizes such as 1200mm x 600mm. The fittings you have linked to are usually used in areas with suspended ceilings.
If the building has a high roof / ceiling (as you would typically have in an industrial unit) you can suspend linear battens (fluorescent or LED) or low bays (LED, fluoresecnt or discharge lamps). The LED fittings tend to be more expensive to purchase than the other types of light fittings but they are cheaper to run. With the bonus of no ongoing maintenance in theory as there are no lamps to change.
You can get fittings and lighting control sensors with integral photo cell control so they take into account the ambient daylight and can switch off if the level of natural light is sufficient.
Will the project have to comply with the energy efficiency requirements of Part L of the building regulations? This may influence your options of luminaire types.
Don't forget the requirement for emergency lighting as you are open to the public.
You could approach an electrical wholesaler and ask if a lighting manufacturer could do a design for you. This is a service that is offered by national chains such as City Electrical Factors and YESSS as they have in house lighting designers as part of the company.
You have several choices, so it may be worthwhile getting an electrical contractor involved, explain you want various options pricing and seeing how they compare to your budget.
PH5121 said:
How high is the ceiling?
You can suspend the 600mm x 600mm LED panels, and can also get other sizes such as 1200mm x 600mm. The fittings you have linked to are usually used in areas with suspended ceilings.
Will the project have to comply with the energy efficiency requirements of Part L of the building regulations? This may influence your options of luminaire types.
Don't forget the requirement for emergency lighting as you are open to the public.
You could approach an electrical wholesaler and ask if a lighting manufacturer could do a design for you. This is a service that is offered by national chains such as City Electrical Factors and YESSS as they have in house lighting designers as part of the company.
Thank you that is an excellent reply.You can suspend the 600mm x 600mm LED panels, and can also get other sizes such as 1200mm x 600mm. The fittings you have linked to are usually used in areas with suspended ceilings.
Will the project have to comply with the energy efficiency requirements of Part L of the building regulations? This may influence your options of luminaire types.
Don't forget the requirement for emergency lighting as you are open to the public.
You could approach an electrical wholesaler and ask if a lighting manufacturer could do a design for you. This is a service that is offered by national chains such as City Electrical Factors and YESSS as they have in house lighting designers as part of the company.
Sounds like it could be worth speaking to a contractor, however my thinking was the 600 x 600 units are available very cheap where they have been removed from buildings during re fits / LED upgrades hence are a good budget option.
I don't think Part L will apply as it is a minor refurbishment of an existing building rather than a new build, although I have not done much homework on this.
Emergency lighting is something I had not thought about beyond emergency exit illumination but now you point it out that would not really be good enough!
Ben
A problem you may find with 600mm x 600mm fittings is that as they are designed to go in a suspended ceiling the louvres often are designed to be held in place by the ceiling grid that the fittings sits onto. If there is no ceiling grid there is no way to retain them.
You could go to a lot of trouble to 'bodge' that kind of fitting to get them to fit and it look amatuerish when you have finished. Not something you may want if spending thousands setting up a new venture.
If you are on a tight budget a 2x70w (6ft twin) batten gives you 'bang for your buck' in terms of light output for the number of fittings you would use, but it won't be your most efficient option.
If you can give me an idea of the size of the area you are trying to illuminate I may be able to give you a (very) rough idea of how many lights would do the job.
You could go to a lot of trouble to 'bodge' that kind of fitting to get them to fit and it look amatuerish when you have finished. Not something you may want if spending thousands setting up a new venture.
If you are on a tight budget a 2x70w (6ft twin) batten gives you 'bang for your buck' in terms of light output for the number of fittings you would use, but it won't be your most efficient option.
If you can give me an idea of the size of the area you are trying to illuminate I may be able to give you a (very) rough idea of how many lights would do the job.
PH5121 said:
A problem you may find with 600mm x 600mm fittings is that as they are designed to go in a suspended ceiling the louvres often are designed to be held in place by the ceiling grid that the fittings sits onto. If there is no ceiling grid there is no way to retain them.
You could go to a lot of trouble to 'bodge' that kind of fitting to get them to fit and it look amatuerish when you have finished. Not something you may want if spending thousands setting up a new venture.
If you are on a tight budget a 2x70w (6ft twin) batten gives you 'bang for your buck' in terms of light output for the number of fittings you would use, but it won't be your most efficient option.
If you can give me an idea of the size of the area you are trying to illuminate I may be able to give you a (very) rough idea of how many lights would do the job.
The main room is about 25m x 25m with a ceiling height of approx 4.5m (at the lowest, it is shaped like this ^^^^^^ )You could go to a lot of trouble to 'bodge' that kind of fitting to get them to fit and it look amatuerish when you have finished. Not something you may want if spending thousands setting up a new venture.
If you are on a tight budget a 2x70w (6ft twin) batten gives you 'bang for your buck' in terms of light output for the number of fittings you would use, but it won't be your most efficient option.
If you can give me an idea of the size of the area you are trying to illuminate I may be able to give you a (very) rough idea of how many lights would do the job.
I have looked at sports halls for an idea, they usually have a higher roof and require brighter lighting so not sure they are analogous.
That is quite a large area, if you have multiple peaks I would go for runs of fluorescent battens mounted at the 4.5m trough height.
A sports hall would be typically illuminated to 300lux, to give you 300lux in that area would require about 30 fittings. If you have five peaks then that would be five rows each with six fittings on.
PLEASE NOTE: This is very approximate, I am not a lighting engineer, I was just given a program many many years ago which is still on an old p.c which I have just fired up to try and give you a rough idea of what it may need.
Someone who knows what they are on about may be along to give you some proper advice if you hang on!
A sports hall would be typically illuminated to 300lux, to give you 300lux in that area would require about 30 fittings. If you have five peaks then that would be five rows each with six fittings on.
PLEASE NOTE: This is very approximate, I am not a lighting engineer, I was just given a program many many years ago which is still on an old p.c which I have just fired up to try and give you a rough idea of what it may need.
Someone who knows what they are on about may be along to give you some proper advice if you hang on!
Edited by PH5121 on Tuesday 28th June 15:55
PH5121 said:
That is quite a large area, if you have multiple peaks I would go for runs of fluorescent battens mounted at the 4.5m trough height.
A sports hall would be typically illuminated to 300lux, to give you 300lux in that area would require about 30 fittings. If you have five peaks then that would be five rows each with six fittings on.
PLEASE NOTE: This is very approximate, I am not a lighting engineer, I was just given a program many many years ago which is still on an old p.c which I have just fired up to try and give you a rough idea of what it may need.
Someone who knows what they are on about may be along to give you some proper advice if you hang on!
I'll have to look it up but I'd be surpised if a sports hall was as little as 300 lux. Offices are lit to 4-500 lux at working level so I'd expect a sports hall to want to be brighter than that.A sports hall would be typically illuminated to 300lux, to give you 300lux in that area would require about 30 fittings. If you have five peaks then that would be five rows each with six fittings on.
PLEASE NOTE: This is very approximate, I am not a lighting engineer, I was just given a program many many years ago which is still on an old p.c which I have just fired up to try and give you a rough idea of what it may need.
Someone who knows what they are on about may be along to give you some proper advice if you hang on!
Ben, our 600 panels come with 4 x hooks on the back so they can be suspended but you might want to have a look at hi-bay lighting (the warehousy types you referred to).
I'm local now. Do you want me to come look at the space?
I'd install LED fittings now. Whilst the space is empty getting up to them is going to be easy, but once you have the equipment in, getting back up to replace a blown tube is going to be a major exercise, and all the time you are building scaffold towers, the centre is going to be closed, costing you money.
The other advantage LED's have, is the plastic lenses. You don't want bare glass tubes above a ball pool. Kid kicks football, breaks a tube, glass drops into your ball pool. You're going to have more down time while you get the glass out.
Minimum I'd be happy with if you can't stomach the initial capex cost of the LED's would be fluorescent fittings with IPX rated covers.
Keep the office lighting where it belongs.
The other advantage LED's have, is the plastic lenses. You don't want bare glass tubes above a ball pool. Kid kicks football, breaks a tube, glass drops into your ball pool. You're going to have more down time while you get the glass out.
Minimum I'd be happy with if you can't stomach the initial capex cost of the LED's would be fluorescent fittings with IPX rated covers.
Keep the office lighting where it belongs.
GuinnessMK said:
The other advantage LED's have, is the plastic lenses. You don't want bare glass tubes above a ball pool. Kid kicks football, breaks a tube, glass drops into your ball pool. You're going to have more down time while you get the glass out.
That is an excellent point. I certainly wouldn't consider bare tubes in any but say the entrance area.PH5121 said:
I don't mean to contradict Guy but I am sure that the CIBSE recommended level of illumination for a sports hall is 300 lux, and that at 4.5m it is a bit low for high bay lighting, it would be better suited to low bay lighting.
You're not. I didn't know the answer - never done a sports hall. Just said I'd be surprised if it was as low as 300 which indeed, I am!E36GUY said:
PH5121 said:
I don't mean to contradict Guy but I am sure that the CIBSE recommended level of illumination for a sports hall is 300 lux, and that at 4.5m it is a bit low for high bay lighting, it would be better suited to low bay lighting.
You're not. I didn't know the answer - never done a sports hall. Just said I'd be surprised if it was as low as 300 which indeed, I am!Any morning this week is OK for us.
Glare may be an issue depending upon what sports you want to play. LED panels with a good diffused output will be fine.
Linear as oppose to rectangular might offer better layout efficiency/uniformity if they are to sit withing the trusses.
I wouldn't even consider fluorescent now unless cost is an issue & you need to go really cheap.
Another benefit of using linear is that you can do this:
Linear as oppose to rectangular might offer better layout efficiency/uniformity if they are to sit withing the trusses.
I wouldn't even consider fluorescent now unless cost is an issue & you need to go really cheap.
Another benefit of using linear is that you can do this:
Alucidnation said:
Don't forget fire detection, insurances etc if it's a public building, and i'm reasonably sure the local authority might have an interest with its intended use.
The local authority are fully aware of what we are doing and don't worry fire detection / insurance and the like are all in hand.There has been a lot to think about but it will be worth it.
ETA: if the local authority hadn't been aware we would have been trading and paying business rates for almost 18 months now......
Edited by BigBen on Monday 4th July 20:15
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