Where would Gazza Sit ?
Poll: Where would Gazza Sit ?
Total Members Polled: 76
Discussion
If we're talking World rather than England he's Top 500.
He had the talent to be better than that but sadly didn't use it to it's fullest.
As a point of reference he never made the Final 3 for Ballon d'Or or FIFA World Player of The Year. To be in the Top 50 of all time you need to be in that list I reckon!
The word's "world class" when used to describe English footballers is used way,way too often. The only English players since 1960 to have featured in the Ballon d'Or Top 3 are Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Keegan, Lineker, Owen, Shearer, Beckham, Lampard and Gerrard. Now you could argue Gazza had more talent than say Lampard but who was more successful ? There are a few other English players who you could definitely say have been World Class...Gordon Banks obviously and I think Campbell and Ferdinand were both in the team of the tournament for one of the World Cup's for instance.
He had the talent to be better than that but sadly didn't use it to it's fullest.
As a point of reference he never made the Final 3 for Ballon d'Or or FIFA World Player of The Year. To be in the Top 50 of all time you need to be in that list I reckon!
The word's "world class" when used to describe English footballers is used way,way too often. The only English players since 1960 to have featured in the Ballon d'Or Top 3 are Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Keegan, Lineker, Owen, Shearer, Beckham, Lampard and Gerrard. Now you could argue Gazza had more talent than say Lampard but who was more successful ? There are a few other English players who you could definitely say have been World Class...Gordon Banks obviously and I think Campbell and Ferdinand were both in the team of the tournament for one of the World Cup's for instance.
SWoll said:
Top 500 for me (assuming world) and a long way from the top 100. Massive waste of talent, consistently injured or banned and never achieved anything at the highest level.
Can only assume the spuds have been voting heavily based on the current results.
Have to agree with that.Can only assume the spuds have been voting heavily based on the current results.
Gascoigne might scrape into a top 500, but talk of top 50 or 100 is fantasy. In the cloistered world of English football, and particularly the old First division, yes, you could see that he had a supreme talent but as it wasn't allied to much sense of self respect for that talent, and then save for some twinkling performances at Italia '90, Euro '96 and the odd cameo at Lazio....what do you have? Mere front page headlines. A glazed nightclub exit here and there.
Sad.
I think its relatively easy to put his career into perspective. Amongst English players, then Hoddle had greater 'output' and simply was a player out of his time. Bryan Robson, an exceptionally committed machine - dynamo - who basically carried United and England in the eighties. He didn't have Gascoigne's flair, but he allowed the team to play, which is a greater mark of his relevance as a player.
Thinking of near contemporaries of Gascoigne...take Robert Prosinecki. A couple of years age difference. But a player who through the chain smoking and ill-discipline, won a European Cup at Red Star, and was one of the few to play for both Barcelona *and* Real Madrid. You can watch YouTube videos of a Pogba or a Ronaldinho now and be amazed by their sheer feats. But anyone who can remember Prosinecki's pure ball playing ability and all the various tricks he conjured up to beat a man, and him doing it for top, top teams across Europe, and at the international championships....then compare him to a Gascoigne.
Even when Prosinecki did a short stint at Portsmouth, aging as he was, quite simply, his applied artistry kept them from relegation. As a comparator, Gascoigne's drift down the divisions - a few games at Burnley there, a patch at Middlesbrough here - were sort of forgettable. He never carried a side like nostalgic minds seem to think he did.
Does Prosinecki feature in people's top whatever? Point is, Gazza had some mad skillz, but without dedication to his craft there are others who also did and extracted that talent for all its worth.
As for Beckham....don't get me started! Great right foot, but behind that low IQ beats the mind of a ferociously self aware brand and image expert. His inclusion in Pele's top 125 footballers was simply down to all the bumchummery and glad handing that went on at FIFA events over the years.
[somewhere in Lausanne, 2003, two large posses meet in a full room after Sepp Blatter has toasted the audience]
Pele: "David!!!" (mwah, mwah) "...my good friend...I loved you in that Adidas advert!"
Beckham: "Pele!!! You woz awesome playink that viagra fing. It woz really good!!! Whooo look! Matching Hublots too! Touch mate!"
Zidane
Overath
Redondo
Paul Brietner
Lothar Matthaus
Luis Figo
Zvonimir Boban
Michael Laudrup
Beckenbaur
Rijkaard
Gullit
Van Basten
Cruyff
Raul
Romario
Neeskens
Maradona
Dino Zoff
Buffon
Platini
Scifo
Muller (G)
Seedorf
Desailly
Zico
Papin
Baresi
Weah...
You could easily write a list of a 200 hundred players before any room is found for one English one. Even (Irishman) Liam Brady, who plyed his trade in Serie A - successfully - before many other British Isles players overcame their homesickness to test themselves abroad (Stevens, Platt, Des Walker, Lee Sharpe, et al) in my money would be above a Gascoigne in any list.
Basically I'd put Gazza in the same space as a Gianluigi Lentini or a Laurie Cunnigham. Fantastically gifted, and for the merest glint of time, utterly devastating and enjoyable to watch. But just didn't do it long enough at a high enough level to cut past those who did.
Edited by tigerkoi on Saturday 2nd July 10:57
smn159 said:
The 1991 cup final finished any hopes of Gascoigne being an all time great. I remember him charging about like a lunatic at the start, culminating in the ridiculously aggressive tackle on Gary Charles which did his own cruciate ligaments - he was never the same player again.
agreed.another story of massive potential wasted. He had inner demons from various incidents in his formative years and I'd strongly suggest he didn't have the right people around him when he was on the verge of greatness.
Italia '90 he was fantastic, going to Lazio - never worked. I'd say he was in the top 500 of the last 40 years - my lifetime effectively.
but I could name 100 better players quite easily and plenty of english / british players that would get in ahead of him....without looking at defenders or out and out strikers
Hoddle
Waddle
beardsley
Gerrard
lampard
Scholes
Hughes
giggs
It's a bit of a silly question as you can only honestly compare players that you've actually seen play, a lot. Comparing players of today with ones from the 50s is impossible. Even comparing stats - Pele scored a 1000 goals, yet he played for Santos and NY Cosmos. Not sure that you can draw many conclusions from that, especially if you've only ever seen a few high-lights of him playing.
If you want meaningful stats, look for the player who has scored most top flight league goals in the top 4 leagues in Europe - England, Spain, Italy & Germany. It's not Ronlado or Messi (yet).
If you want meaningful stats, look for the player who has scored most top flight league goals in the top 4 leagues in Europe - England, Spain, Italy & Germany. It's not Ronlado or Messi (yet).
TEKNOPUG said:
Pele scored a 1000 goals, yet he played for Santos and NY Cosmos. Not sure that you can draw many conclusions from that,
He also went to World Cups and made top international players look ordinary. And scored goals at world cups. He stood out as head and shoulders about everyone else in the brilliant 1970 Brazil side. The other 10 players in that side were all miles better than Gazza.
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff