Kitchen lighting and power point issues - suggestions?

[anonymous-user]

Harry Flashman said:

Actually the EcLED ZEP1 will do what the above does, and Guy's PH discount prices are pretty close to that too...

They need 86mm cutout, which is bigger than the old standard GU10 downlights(in most cases) so needs to be enlarged, which can be a bit of a DIY ballache. Not an issue if you are moving the locations or getting someone else to do it.

Also they need transformers fitting - again not a major problem, and especially as part of a slightly bigger refurb.

Just if you want a DIY of ,
1) Pull out old downlighter out and unscrew wires
2.) Screw wires into new light and push back

Then, depending on existing cutout size, the ZEP1s are a bit more work

[dmsims]

Harry Flashman said:

Do not use replacement GU10 bulbs. They are almost universally rubbish: the light they give is cold, they fail, and they look harsh, as well as getting too hot as they can't have proper heat sinks (leading to failure). Trust me,

This is IMHO nonsense on many levels

There is zero risk in trying some

[Harry Flashman]

dmsims said:

Harry Flashman said:

Do not use replacement GU10 bulbs. They are almost universally rubbish: the light they give is cold, they fail, and they look harsh, as well as getting too hot as they can't have proper heat sinks (leading to failure). Trust me,

This is IMHO nonsense on many levels

There is zero risk in trying some

You are entitled to your opinion - and I agree, the OP should buy some and plug them in: as you said, little risk.

But I genuinely think no GU10 bulb (and I tried upwards of 10 varieties of all prices) can give you the light quality of a good integrated spotlight fitting, or of a larger LED bulb (like Megaman's E27 LED). These are, naturally, more expensive.

Like everything, you get what you pay for. Cheap GU10 LEDs give a cold light - even the ones that profess to work at 2700k. If you like cold light, then fine. If. like the OP and me, you don't, then you'll be getting something with better colour rendition.

But yes, it's all nonsense. Cheap ebay bulbs will be just fine.

[Harry Flashman]

wsurfa said:

They need 86mm cutout, which is bigger than the old standard GU10 downlights(in most cases) so needs to be enlarged, which can be a bit of a DIY ballache. Not an issue if you are moving the locations or getting someone else to do it.

Also they need transformers fitting - again not a major problem, and especially as part of a slightly bigger refurb.

Just if you want a DIY of ,
1) Pull out old downlighter out and unscrew wires
2.) Screw wires into new light and push back

Then, depending on existing cutout size, the ZEP1s are a bit more work

True!

[anonymous-user]

Harry Flashman said:

wsurfa said:

They need 86mm cutout, which is bigger than the old standard GU10 downlights(in most cases) so needs to be enlarged, which can be a bit of a DIY ballache. Not an issue if you are moving the locations or getting someone else to do it.

Also they need transformers fitting - again not a major problem, and especially as part of a slightly bigger refurb.

Just if you want a DIY of ,
1) Pull out old downlighter out and unscrew wires
2.) Screw wires into new light and push back

Then, depending on existing cutout size, the ZEP1s are a bit more work

True!

ZEP1s are bloody nice though

[caiss4]

Risotto said:

Is the issue with powering the island due to a solid floor, or is it suspended but with no access?

The floor is solid albeit lime slabs laid over a screed so it is possible to lift the slabs and run conduit underneath. The issue is the level of disruption - 3 or 4 slabs to lift, kitchen base units to be moved, granite work surface, wallchasing to reach a ring main etc, etc.

[caiss4]

Harry Flashman said:

Do not use replacement GU10 bulbs. They are almost universally rubbish: the light they give is cold, they fail, and they look harsh, as well as getting too hot as they can't have proper heat sinks (leading to failure). Trust me, I went down this route before visiting EcoLED, seeing their stuff, and buying it. One of the best decisions I made during an extensive renovation. You don't need their super-expensive stuff - we used ZEP1s, and they are a fantastic unit. I prefer warm light at 2700k, and theirs are, unlike most LED fittings/bulbs I saw, very analogous to that warm halogen light. Your snug particularly will benefit.

Thanks for your various detailed replies. Was busy repointing valleys on the roof yesterday so didn't get a chance to check PH! I will definitely be taking a look at the Ecoled lights.

Harry Flashman said:

Zone the spotlights so that they do not all need to be on at once. That way, if someone is working in the kitchen or sitting at the island, they can use the spots/island pendant, and whoever is in the snug can use a dedicated, separate lighting that gives a great mood, instead of being spotlit like an escaping prisoner

Also, I'd spotlight light around the edges of the room and have an electrician hang pendant(s) above the island. Much nicer than spotlights, and means the room doesn't look like an interrogation chamber.

Currently there are 3 zones in the kitchen but none are on dimmers. I like the idea of a pendant over the island.

Harry Flashman said:

As for getting power to the island, there may well be a service channel under the tiles, running across the kitchen. If so, you only need to take up a few tiles to get power to near or even directly below the island. Check this. You did not tell us what the floor is - it it's suspended wood, you have an easier job.

There are no services running under the floor. Everything is plumbed/wired from the first floor void. As I replied elsewhere the floor is solid - lime slabs over screed with wet UFH beneath that.

Harry Flashman said:

Is the kitchen single storey - can you fit skylights? Failing that, light tubes like solatubes)? A Solatube transformed the hallway in my old place, that used to be dark and dingy.

No, it is two story with bedrooms above. There would be no possibility to use light tubes either.

Edited by Harry Flashman on Friday 7th October 12:17

[hairyben]

Try a couple of decent led bulbs to see what you think before ripping it all out. Megaman 7w 2700k isnt cheap but is one of the better ones IME. Sealed LED light units like those suggested have inherent strengths over led bulbs but you may find them decent enough and will save a bundle.

Im guessing threres no access under the floor ie room/void below? If so its tiles up or maybe a pole down. Thought about chopping the island for a peninsula?

[caiss4]

hairyben said:

Try a couple of decent led bulbs to see what you think before ripping it all out. Megaman 7w 2700k isnt cheap but is one of the better ones IME. Sealed LED light units like those suggested have inherent strengths over led bulbs but you may find them decent enough and will save a bundle.

Im guessing threres no access under the floor ie room/void below? If so its tiles up or maybe a pole down. Thought about chopping the island for a peninsula?

Following the various replies that's what I've just done. I'll try a few out and if that solves the general lighting issue then I've only got to worry about lighting over the island. A peninsula, hmmmm, interesting idea but not sure that would work. Still look at it though.

[dmsims]

Try the Philips Master as well - if you get dimmables you could always fit dimmer switches if you want more control

[caiss4]

Just an update, replaced the existing GU10's with Philips warm LED's. Split them 3 x 3.5W at the snug end and 9 x 4.3W for the rest of the kitchen.

Works OK but now need to replace the 4-gang double switch unit with a 3-gang dimmable, 1-gang switched unit ( for the under unit lights). Any suggestions? All my searches offer 3-gang or 4-gang dimmable units but ideally I'd like a modular double unit that means 3 are dimmable and one is fixed.

I like the idea of touch/remote control and have seen ilumos but at first view I get the impression I'll need a 3-gang double plus a single fixed/switched unit (just means I'll have to hack the wall and fit a single patress alongside). Any one know of a modular touch/remote 4-gang double unit that gives 3 dimmable + 1 fixed?

Lighting over the island still to be resolved but any pointers to pendant fittings using LED's, remote control and just 240V supply would be ideal (not found any yet)

[S6PNJ]

caiss4 said:

.. replaced the existing GU10's with Philips warm LED's. Split them 3 x 3.5W at the snug end and 9 x 4.3W for the rest of the kitchen.

Do you have a link for the one's you've selected please? Or an exact model name/number?

[caiss4]

S6PNJ said:

Do you have a link for the one's you've selected please? Or an exact model name/number?

The 3.5W are Philips 45703000 GU10 3.5 W 2700 k 260 lm Master LED Dimmable and the 4.3W are similar spec but 355 lm output.

[S6PNJ]

Thanks, much obliged - now searching for outlets to buy from!

[hairyben]

caiss4 said:

Just an update, replaced the existing GU10's with Philips warm LED's. Split them 3 x 3.5W at the snug end and 9 x 4.3W for the rest of the kitchen.

Works OK but now need to replace the 4-gang double switch unit with a 3-gang dimmable, 1-gang switched unit ( for the under unit lights). Any suggestions? All my searches offer 3-gang or 4-gang dimmable units but ideally I'd like a modular double unit that means 3 are dimmable and one is fixed.

I like the idea of touch/remote control and have seen ilumos but at first view I get the impression I'll need a 3-gang double plus a single fixed/switched unit (just means I'll have to hack the wall and fit a single patress alongside). Any one know of a modular touch/remote 4-gang double unit that gives 3 dimmable + 1 fixed?

Lighting over the island still to be resolved but any pointers to pendant fittings using LED's, remote control and just 240V supply would be ideal (not found any yet)

You can buy dummy dimmers, ie a push-switch that replaces the dimming module in a multi gang dimmer panel.

Try to get complex with touch stuff could be a world of pain as a lot of stuff still isnt led compatible yet, fit a conventional dimmer panel then see whats out there in a bit if you fancy.

[Mattt]

I use these in my kitchen, have 16 of them on a dimmer: https://www.downlights.co.uk/philips-gu10-led-dimm...

[dmsims]

Mattt said:

I use these in my kitchen, have 16 of them on a dimmer: https://www.downlights.co.uk/philips-gu10-led-dimm...

"82% off RRP" and still a rip off

[caiss4]

hairyben said:

You can buy dummy dimmers, ie a push-switch that replaces the dimming module in a multi gang dimmer panel.

Try to get complex with touch stuff could be a world of pain as a lot of stuff still isnt led compatible yet, fit a conventional dimmer panel then see whats out there in a bit if you fancy.

Following your reply I've decided to go for a Varilight 4-gang V-Pro with one gang replaced by a dummy.