Smart meters - what's the current thinking?
Discussion
jmorgan said:
I know I will get done over eventually, I believe there is a clause that says end of life meters must be replaced with this?
Meters are routinely replaced as they need calibration; it's up the the power co what they chose to fit, so long as it meets certain standards of measurement accuracy you dont really have a say.If you refuse to let the power co replace an out of cert meter when it's due they can charge you a sliding % over what it reads to reflect possible losses due to inaccuracy (and if they refuse to replace an out of cert one you can pay the same % under)
Better than that, if you refuse to let them in to change an out of date meter, they can (and do!) apply for a warrant to break into your house....so you'll get home from work at 6pm to find your locks changed, and a sticker on your door telling you to contact them DURING OFFICE HOURS in order to obtain the key. To get back the key to YOUR OWN HOUSE you then need to pay them an administration fee. It is generally cheaper to get your own locksmith to break back in again.
Never underestimate the statutory powers these FOREIGN OWNED companies have to simply enter and vandalise your property, and then arbitarily deny you access to it.
All this happened to someone I know a year or two back. Better still as his indoor meter was in a cupboard that matched the fittings and shelving in the room, they managed to smash the cupboard door off while changing the meter. Apparently they have no obligation to pay for this damage, as you shouldn't conceal your meter in a cupboard.
In this country we just make up new laws to suit big businesses and their profit-related motives. This meter nonsense is NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with extracting even more profit from UK residents, which in most cases leaves the country as all bar one of the big energy firms is now foreign owned.
Never underestimate the statutory powers these FOREIGN OWNED companies have to simply enter and vandalise your property, and then arbitarily deny you access to it.
All this happened to someone I know a year or two back. Better still as his indoor meter was in a cupboard that matched the fittings and shelving in the room, they managed to smash the cupboard door off while changing the meter. Apparently they have no obligation to pay for this damage, as you shouldn't conceal your meter in a cupboard.
In this country we just make up new laws to suit big businesses and their profit-related motives. This meter nonsense is NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with extracting even more profit from UK residents, which in most cases leaves the country as all bar one of the big energy firms is now foreign owned.
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Saturday 21st January 19:30
FFS people. It matters not a jot if they change your meter with or without your consent they have always had (and rightly so) the power to do this - but what they can not do is force you to upload your readings or download a new tariff based on what time of the day or night you choose to dry your clothes without your consent.
If you want a shiny shiny new meter with a display that shows you how much money you've spunked then tell them to set it to dumb mode.
It really is that simple!!
If you want a shiny shiny new meter with a display that shows you how much money you've spunked then tell them to set it to dumb mode.
It really is that simple!!
Edited by dickymint on Saturday 21st January 22:18
dickymint said:
FFS people. It matters not a jot if they change your meter with or without your consent they have always had (and rightly so) the power to do this - but what they can not do is force you to upload your readings or download a new tariff based on what time of the day or night you choose to dry your clothes without your consent.
If you want a shiny shiny new meter with a display that shows you how much money you've spunked then tell them to set it to dumb mode.
It really is that simple!!
I think some people are concerned about the energy company's ability to turn off a supply. They would, as I understand it, have that ability. Though I don't believe they are legally able for resi property. I presume they could force a pre-pay situation for poor payers though, in the same way that they can currently force-fit pre-pay meters.
If you want a shiny shiny new meter with a display that shows you how much money you've spunked then tell them to set it to dumb mode.
It really is that simple!!
I think some people are concerned about the energy company's ability to turn off a supply. They would, as I understand it, have that ability. Though I don't believe they are legally able for resi property. I presume they could force a pre-pay situation for poor payers though, in the same way that they can currently force-fit pre-pay meters.
Edited by dickymint on Saturday 21st January 22:18
13m said:
I think some people are concerned about the energy company's ability to turn off a supply. They would, as I understand it, have that ability. Though I don't believe they are legally able for resi property. I presume they could force a pre-pay situation for poor payers though, in the same way that they can currently force-fit pre-pay meters.
They cannot turn off your supplly or change your tarif if, as is your right, you tell them to set it up as a "dumb meter".
"Do I have to get a smart meter?
If you are adamant that a smart meter is not for you, you do have the right to decline installation. Your energy supplier may be in contact when your meter is due for replacement, and while you should accept the replacement (not to would be a safety hazard), you do have the right to insist that it be placed on ‘dumb’ mode meaning that all communications would be switched off."
dickymint said:
13m said:
I think some people are concerned about the energy company's ability to turn off a supply. They would, as I understand it, have that ability. Though I don't believe they are legally able for resi property. I presume they could force a pre-pay situation for poor payers though, in the same way that they can currently force-fit pre-pay meters.
They cannot turn off your supplly or change your tarif if, as is your right, you tell them to set it up as a "dumb meter".
"Do I have to get a smart meter?
If you are adamant that a smart meter is not for you, you do have the right to decline installation. Your energy supplier may be in contact when your meter is due for replacement, and while you should accept the replacement (not to would be a safety hazard), you do have the right to insist that it be placed on ‘dumb’ mode meaning that all communications would be switched off."
They cannot legally switch off supply for residential customers, despite technicaly having the ability to do so I believe.
Now you can go headbut the wall, may I suggest the part over there with the sharp light switch sticking out?
AdeTuono said:
We had a (Scottish Power) Smart meter fitted a month ago. Disregarding all the tin-foil hatter's complaints, the remote display ( the reason I agreed to having it fitted) is totally useless. Any more than 2' from the meter and it loses the signal.
Wifi, going to an issue. My bluetooth mouse kept cutting out, then found out a recent purchased USB 3 hub is an issue for that. Moved the hub and it is better. However how many householders will be savvy?Anyhoo
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/do-i...
As Dicky says.
13m said:
dickymint said:
13m said:
I think some people are concerned about the energy company's ability to turn off a supply. They would, as I understand it, have that ability. Though I don't believe they are legally able for resi property. I presume they could force a pre-pay situation for poor payers though, in the same way that they can currently force-fit pre-pay meters.
They cannot turn off your supplly or change your tarif if, as is your right, you tell them to set it up as a "dumb meter".
"Do I have to get a smart meter?
If you are adamant that a smart meter is not for you, you do have the right to decline installation. Your energy supplier may be in contact when your meter is due for replacement, and while you should accept the replacement (not to would be a safety hazard), you do have the right to insist that it be placed on ‘dumb’ mode meaning that all communications would be switched off."
They cannot legally switch off supply for residential customers, despite technicaly having the ability to do so I believe.
Now you can go headbut the wall, may I suggest the part over there with the sharp light switch sticking out?
I did fully read what you said as I had to unscramble your formatting
I'm simply trying to affirm that without the 'comms' side of these new meters being switched on (which needs customer approval and signature...the main reason why you HAVE to be there when they instal) you cannot be switched off or have your tarrif changed at will.
dickymint said:
They cannot turn off your supplly or change your tarif if, as is your right, you tell them to set it up as a "dumb meter".
"Do I have to get a smart meter?
If you are adamant that a smart meter is not for you, you do have the right to decline installation. Your energy supplier may be in contact when your meter is due for replacement, and while you should accept the replacement (not to would be a safety hazard), you do have the right to insist that it be placed on ‘dumb’ mode meaning that all communications would be switched off."
How do we know what 'dumb mode' actually means? In reality, as opposed to what they tell us!
These companies almost as corrupt as the banks, some may argue more so.
13m said:
They cannot legally switch off supply for residential customers, despite technicaly having the ability to do so I believe.
In which case, why do they need the technical ability?"Oh we could technically do it, but we promise we never would".
Yeah right. I'll leave all that to the gullibles I reckon.
dickymint said:
Riley Blue said:
As a result of having one installed for electricity we've bought a clothes drying rack. Our tumble dryer is now used far less than previously, probably for 10% of the time we used it for before.
Amazing! It's put £6 per year on every energy bill (every year) in the U.K. for you to discover that using your tumble drier less is cheaper .... thanks for that 
But hey ho it was "free" and obviously you needed a new one
zarjaz1991 said:
Better than that, if you refuse to let them in to change an out of date meter, they can (and do!) apply for a warrant to break into your house....so you'll get home from work at 6pm to find your locks changed, and a sticker on your door telling you to contact them DURING OFFICE HOURS in order to obtain the key. To get back the key to YOUR OWN HOUSE you then need to pay them an administration fee. It is generally cheaper to get your own locksmith to break back in again.
Never underestimate the statutory powers these FOREIGN OWNED companies have to simply enter and vandalise your property, and then arbitarily deny you access to it.
All this happened to someone I know a year or two back. Better still as his indoor meter was in a cupboard that matched the fittings and shelving in the room, they managed to smash the cupboard door off while changing the meter. Apparently they have no obligation to pay for this damage, as you shouldn't conceal your meter in a cupboard.
In this country we just make up new laws to suit big businesses and their profit-related motives. This meter nonsense is NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with extracting even more profit from UK residents, which in most cases leaves the country as all bar one of the big energy firms is now foreign owned.
What a crock.Never underestimate the statutory powers these FOREIGN OWNED companies have to simply enter and vandalise your property, and then arbitarily deny you access to it.
All this happened to someone I know a year or two back. Better still as his indoor meter was in a cupboard that matched the fittings and shelving in the room, they managed to smash the cupboard door off while changing the meter. Apparently they have no obligation to pay for this damage, as you shouldn't conceal your meter in a cupboard.
In this country we just make up new laws to suit big businesses and their profit-related motives. This meter nonsense is NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with extracting even more profit from UK residents, which in most cases leaves the country as all bar one of the big energy firms is now foreign owned.
Edited by zarjaz1991 on Saturday 21st January 19:30
Energy companies have had these powers for decades, even when they were UK owned (which many stilll are), they're not "made up new laws".
Do you not think that power companies should have rights to access their equipment and replace metering equipment that may be over or under reading? Would you be happy to subsidise your neighbour who happens to have an old meter that has got a little slow simply because they won't allow access to change it?
Blue Oval84 said:
What a crock.
Energy companies have had these powers for decades, even when they were UK owned (which many stilll are), they're not "made up new laws".
Do you not think that power companies should have rights to access their equipment and replace metering equipment that may be over or under reading? Would you be happy to subsidise your neighbour who happens to have an old meter that has got a little slow simply because they won't allow access to change it?
Oh come on, that is tenuous in the extreme.Energy companies have had these powers for decades, even when they were UK owned (which many stilll are), they're not "made up new laws".
Do you not think that power companies should have rights to access their equipment and replace metering equipment that may be over or under reading? Would you be happy to subsidise your neighbour who happens to have an old meter that has got a little slow simply because they won't allow access to change it?
I know they've had right of access powers for a long time, it doesn't change anything. These laws have been changed and adapted regularly though, whenever new technology changes the way things are done.
Also at one time they had to repair any damage caused to your property by them breaking in, now they don't have to.
And in any case the whole "we need to check / change the meter" thing is nothing to do with safety, it is so they can check you are not fiddling them.
zarjaz1991 said:
13m said:
They cannot legally switch off supply for residential customers, despite technicaly having the ability to do so I believe.
In which case, why do they need the technical ability?"Oh we could technically do it, but we promise we never would".
Yeah right. I'll leave all that to the gullibles I reckon.
I found this out when a British Gas "enforcer" showed up at one of our sites to shut off the supply. He found he couldn't because it was residential.
Needless to say Britsh Gas wasn't owed anything, it was just their latest cockup.
zarjaz1991 said:
Oh come on, that is tenuous in the extreme.
I know they've had right of access powers for a long time, it doesn't change anything. These laws have been changed and adapted regularly though, whenever new technology changes the way things are done.
Also at one time they had to repair any damage caused to your property by them breaking in, now they don't have to.
And in any case the whole "we need to check / change the meter" thing is nothing to do with safety, it is so they can check you are not fiddling them.
What about is tenuous?I know they've had right of access powers for a long time, it doesn't change anything. These laws have been changed and adapted regularly though, whenever new technology changes the way things are done.
Also at one time they had to repair any damage caused to your property by them breaking in, now they don't have to.
And in any case the whole "we need to check / change the meter" thing is nothing to do with safety, it is so they can check you are not fiddling them.
The whole point of the meter re-certification obligation is to ensure that suppliers are obliged, by law, to replace meters on a regular basis, to ensure they aren't over or under reading.
They are obliged by Ofgem to read meters once every two years as a minimum, partly as a safety thing, and yes, also because they have an obligation in law to detect electricity theft. What's the problem with that?
When have the laws changed? They certainly haven't changed in the last decade to the best of my knowledge. In fact, metering and industry technology hasn't really updated since the early part of the 20th century, although with the advent of Prepayment meters there did become a legal obligation to attempt to install one of those (under warrant if necessary) rather than just cut the power off and walk away.
When was there an obligation to fix damage done whilst gaining entry? That hasn't been the case for the entirety of the time I've worked in the industry (12 years) and no one I work with has ever referred to this being the case. We make it secure and send the homeowner the bill, quite rightly.
Do you just have some sort of a chip on your shoulder about electricity companies?
Blue Oval84 said:
zarjaz1991 said:
Oh come on, that is tenuous in the extreme.
I know they've had right of access powers for a long time, it doesn't change anything. These laws have been changed and adapted regularly though, whenever new technology changes the way things are done.
Also at one time they had to repair any damage caused to your property by them breaking in, now they don't have to.
And in any case the whole "we need to check / change the meter" thing is nothing to do with safety, it is so they can check you are not fiddling them.
What about is tenuous?I know they've had right of access powers for a long time, it doesn't change anything. These laws have been changed and adapted regularly though, whenever new technology changes the way things are done.
Also at one time they had to repair any damage caused to your property by them breaking in, now they don't have to.
And in any case the whole "we need to check / change the meter" thing is nothing to do with safety, it is so they can check you are not fiddling them.
The whole point of the meter re-certification obligation is to ensure that suppliers are obliged, by law, to replace meters on a regular basis, to ensure they aren't over or under reading.
They are obliged by Ofgem to read meters once every two years as a minimum, partly as a safety thing, and yes, also because they have an obligation in law to detect electricity theft. What's the problem with that?
When have the laws changed? They certainly haven't changed in the last decade to the best of my knowledge. In fact, metering and industry technology hasn't really updated since the early part of the 20th century, although with the advent of Prepayment meters there did become a legal obligation to attempt to install one of those (under warrant if necessary) rather than just cut the power off and walk away.
When was there an obligation to fix damage done whilst gaining entry? That hasn't been the case for the entirety of the time I've worked in the industry (12 years) and no one I work with has ever referred to this being the case. We make it secure and send the homeowner the bill, quite rightly.
Do you just have some sort of a chip on your shoulder about electricity companies?
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