Smart meters - what's the current thinking?

Smart meters - what's the current thinking?

Author
Discussion

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
ARHarh said:
do they work with solar panels?
Yes.

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
The debate's been going on for years in the electrical industry as to exactly what a smart meter should be and do with all different interests wanting different things, some real middle management empire building beaurocracy BS. I'm not sure if they ever settled on any kind of universal standard as I couldnt really be bothered to follow it TBH. Seemed like a bit of a fad, ie people want the thing that sounds cool or like progress without really knowing what it is.

Except my cuz who's inistent a smart meter will detect his grow lights and shop him to the feds.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
Zoon said:
Absolute shambles of a system.
They work whilst you are with the supplier that installed it.
Switch supplier and it's back to manual meter readings again.

The data of what you are using still works, but won't submit billing info for you.

Complete waste of time, unless you remain loyal to suppliers for years on end, which you won't if you like to save money.
Ah, there you go then. I just knew there'd be a reason for the energy suppliers investing potentially millions out of their own profits encouraging everybody to install one by running endless childishly simple adverts on the radio for the wretched things.

Give anybody with a soft spot for a gadget something to play with whilst at the same time craftily hooking them into a single supplier and that'll distract them from the far bigger concern which is obtaining the best value energy deal by shopping around.



Snake the Sniper

2,544 posts

200 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
Zoon said:
Absolute shambles of a system.
They work whilst you are with the supplier that installed it.
Switch supplier and it's back to manual meter readings again.

The data of what you are using still works, but won't submit billing info for you.

Complete waste of time, unless you remain loyal to suppliers for years on end, which you won't if you like to save money.
Ah, there you go then. I just knew there'd be a reason for the energy suppliers investing potentially millions out of their own profits encouraging everybody to install one by running endless childishly simple adverts on the radio for the wretched things.

Give anybody with a soft spot for a gadget something to play with whilst at the same time craftily hooking them into a single supplier and that'll distract them from the far bigger concern which is obtaining the best value energy deal by shopping around.

This is only true at present. When the Gov't finally get the DCC built and working, switching supplier won't affect the basic requirements of the system. Any decent supplier will of course attempt to add extras to "their" Smart system as an incentive to stay, but that's just good sense in an otherwise flat playing field. All the data willf low from the meter to the DCC and from there to your chosen supplier. There's even a data comms company looking after getting new aerials up in areas where there is limited/low/no signal for the system.

stewjohnst

2,442 posts

160 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
ARHarh said:
do they work with solar panels?
Not yet, the SMETS2 meters (available later this year) have a generation register to record the solar output from whatever you have wired up but if you have multiple sources of generation it kind of falls short.

If you've got solar or are planning solar, I wouldn't get a smart meter just yet.

stewjohnst

2,442 posts

160 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
Ah, there you go then. I just knew there'd be a reason for the energy suppliers investing potentially millions out of their own profits encouraging everybody to install one by running endless childishly simple adverts on the radio for the wretched things.

Give anybody with a soft spot for a gadget something to play with whilst at the same time craftily hooking them into a single supplier and that'll distract them from the far bigger concern which is obtaining the best value energy deal by shopping around.

The meters will be interoperable so you can switch and keep functions as long as they are SMETS1 eventually, the issue is that suppliers were allowed to invest and go early to learn but only half did so BG and Eon have loads but other suppliers don't have as many or are as far advanced and can't support each other's meters.

When something called the DCC goes live around the end of this year the meters will be switchable with all functions between suppliers.

It is an interesting thing (imo) that actually, energy is pretty cheap and even sticking with one supplier doesn't make that much of a difference as long as you keep on their best tariff and are vaguely energy efficient with it.

It's a weird world where people are happy to pay £3 for a Starbucks but thing energy is expensive when boiling the kettle for a cuppa costs about 3p...

dingg

3,974 posts

218 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
wait till they start billing you more when you use energy at peak times - the only reason they're being introduced IMO

I'll be saying no to them - thank you

wolfracesonic

6,940 posts

126 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
Is there any credence to the idea, I think I saw posted on here a while back, that as well as the energy companies knowing how much energy is used, smart meters will tell them when it's used, allowing them in the future to charge more at peak times?

souper

2,433 posts

210 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
richard_86 said:
PurpleTurtle said:
The Sunday Times were rolling out that story yesterday. Remote shutdowns of entire towns and cities etc etc

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chinese-link-as-...

Personally I see that as scaremongering. I see the benefit to the Utility Co only (cutting meter reading costs) but very cynical about the cost savings being passed on to the consumer. However, my wife leaves every single light on so am considering getting one to show her how much money we are wasting!
As someone who works for a utility, switching off a town or city remotely is something we can already do very easily if we're ordered to in an emergency.
and I reckon a few dodgy electricians/data guys and a plumber or two will reconnect that Town City for free once they get there mitts on the scada/plc controllers to override your override if push come to shove. wink

Boosted LS1

21,165 posts

259 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
wolfracesonic said:
Is there any credence to the idea, I think I saw posted on here a while back, that as well as the energy companies knowing how much energy is used, smart meters will tell them when it's used, allowing them in the future to charge more at peak times?
This. Why would a supplier give you a smart meter for free? It's to help them in the end, not you.

eliot

11,364 posts

253 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
wolfracesonic said:
Is there any credence to the idea, I think I saw posted on here a while back, that as well as the energy companies knowing how much energy is used, smart meters will tell them when it's used, allowing them in the future to charge more at peak times?
Yes that will happen - it was discussed in the other smartmeter thread. I found a specification document that talked about variable rate charging from memory.
Basically 5 to 6 pm, middle of winter , cold still evening with no wind is a problem - if they can shift that load by an hour, they avoid firing up all the diesel and heavy oil gennys etc.
Through smart metering they would be able to offer you a slightly lower rate most of the time, but will increase significantly around tea time to discourage usage. Or hopefully only impose a high tarrif occasionally when there is exceptional demand - which wouldn't be too unreasonable.

Xaero

4,060 posts

214 months

Monday 17th October 2016
quotequote all
I was offered one but refused as I plan to sell my house within a couple of years and it is noted on file when you sell. I don't overly mind but I worry it will put someone off.

Also they said I could have data sent every minute, day or week (IIRC). I couldn't customise how often the data is sent, just 3 options.

I actually thought it was more in preparation for the move to electric cars in the future. When the population starts dropping off direct fossil fuel cars, then a sort of energy tax will have to come in to make up the short fall, and what better way to do that than taking direct readings from peoples houses?

Snake the Sniper

2,544 posts

200 months

Tuesday 18th October 2016
quotequote all
wolfracesonic said:
Is there any credence to the idea, I think I saw posted on here a while back, that as well as the energy companies knowing how much energy is used, smart meters will tell them when it's used, allowing them in the future to charge more at peak times?
This already happens, albeit for large energy consumers who are billed half hourly. IE every 30 mins (sometimes even less) their unit price changes. The same is true of most domestic tariffs that aren't a standard rate. They aren't to give you cheaper electricity, they are there to encourage usage at network wide low/off peak times. If you happen to benefit as a consumer, then good for you, but it started as a way of running a more efficient/even demand network with the intention that it would then use less of the immediate demand and higher cost methods of generation and more of the larger plants.

PRTVR

7,072 posts

220 months

Tuesday 18th October 2016
quotequote all
Snake the Sniper said:
wolfracesonic said:
Is there any credence to the idea, I think I saw posted on here a while back, that as well as the energy companies knowing how much energy is used, smart meters will tell them when it's used, allowing them in the future to charge more at peak times?
This already happens, albeit for large energy consumers who are billed half hourly. IE every 30 mins (sometimes even less) their unit price changes. The same is true of most domestic tariffs that aren't a standard rate. They aren't to give you cheaper electricity, they are there to encourage usage at network wide low/off peak times. If you happen to benefit as a consumer, then good for you, but it started as a way of running a more efficient/even demand network with the intention that it would then use less of the immediate demand and higher cost methods of generation and more of the larger plants.
The way the national grid see it going is more centralised control,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37220703

This is just the first step in an answer to a disastrous energy policy over many years, not enough investment coupled with shutting down coal fired power stations will leave us short on electricity at peak times, control may be necessary.

Elysium

13,755 posts

186 months

Tuesday 18th October 2016
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Snake the Sniper said:
wolfracesonic said:
Is there any credence to the idea, I think I saw posted on here a while back, that as well as the energy companies knowing how much energy is used, smart meters will tell them when it's used, allowing them in the future to charge more at peak times?
This already happens, albeit for large energy consumers who are billed half hourly. IE every 30 mins (sometimes even less) their unit price changes. The same is true of most domestic tariffs that aren't a standard rate. They aren't to give you cheaper electricity, they are there to encourage usage at network wide low/off peak times. If you happen to benefit as a consumer, then good for you, but it started as a way of running a more efficient/even demand network with the intention that it would then use less of the immediate demand and higher cost methods of generation and more of the larger plants.
The way the national grid see it going is more centralised control,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37220703

This is just the first step in an answer to a disastrous energy policy over many years, not enough investment coupled with shutting down coal fired power stations will leave us short on electricity at peak times, control may be necessary.
The daily peak is at around 7:00pm when we all get home, cook, watch TV etc. Energy prices at those times will increase, but initially only for major users as said above.

However, people should be looking at smart meters at an opportunity. Smart meters help reduce consumption because owners are more aware of energy waste. For example they might realise that they are paying for electricity trickling into unused phone chargers or for a PC that is left on all evening.

Utility companies will not punish consumers for adopting these technologies. It's more likely that smart meter users will get variable tariffs that will allow them to reduce their bill by shaping their demand (e.g. by putting the dishwasher on at 11:00pm instead of 8:00pm)

PRTVR

7,072 posts

220 months

Tuesday 18th October 2016
quotequote all
Elysium said:
PRTVR said:
Snake the Sniper said:
wolfracesonic said:
Is there any credence to the idea, I think I saw posted on here a while back, that as well as the energy companies knowing how much energy is used, smart meters will tell them when it's used, allowing them in the future to charge more at peak times?
This already happens, albeit for large energy consumers who are billed half hourly. IE every 30 mins (sometimes even less) their unit price changes. The same is true of most domestic tariffs that aren't a standard rate. They aren't to give you cheaper electricity, they are there to encourage usage at network wide low/off peak times. If you happen to benefit as a consumer, then good for you, but it started as a way of running a more efficient/even demand network with the intention that it would then use less of the immediate demand and higher cost methods of generation and more of the larger plants.
The way the national grid see it going is more centralised control,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37220703

This is just the first step in an answer to a disastrous energy policy over many years, not enough investment coupled with shutting down coal fired power stations will leave us short on electricity at peak times, control may be necessary.
The daily peak is at around 7:00pm when we all get home, cook, watch TV etc. Energy prices at those times will increase, but initially only for major users as said above.

However, people should be looking at smart meters at an opportunity. Smart meters help reduce consumption because owners are more aware of energy waste. For example they might realise that they are paying for electricity trickling into unused phone chargers or for a PC that is left on all evening.

Utility companies will not punish consumers for adopting these technologies. It's more likely that smart meter users will get variable tariffs that will allow them to reduce their bill by shaping their demand (e.g. by putting the dishwasher on at 11:00pm instead of 8:00pm)
The problem I have is the variable tariffs explained to people when they take up the offer of the meters ? I think not, some people's life style may have no option but to mostly use peak power, has it been explained to them they will be considerably worse off, the link I posted shows how the national grid see the future and that is control.

Riley Blue

Original Poster:

20,915 posts

225 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
After weighing up the pros and cons we phoned to arrange installation today, our smart meter will be fitted on Thursday morning. We're often in during the day so can use appliances whenever electricity is cheapest, day or night so half-hour tariffs won't be a problem, neither will losing the smart facility if we change energy providers and the meter is incompatible.

softtop

3,048 posts

246 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
eybic said:
Is that actually the case? I had a water meter fitted and saved around £200 a year.
A water meter is not a smart meter.

Trabi601

4,865 posts

94 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
dingg said:
wait till they start billing you more when you use energy at peak times - the only reason they're being introduced IMO

I'll be saying no to them - thank you
This, plus the potential to apply road fuel taxation to electricity used to charge electric cars.

eybic

9,212 posts

173 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
softtop said:
eybic said:
Is that actually the case? I had a water meter fitted and saved around £200 a year.
A water meter is not a smart meter.
But surely being charged for exactly what you use is better than their "estimate"?