Extension Planning Advice / Recommendations (w'pics)
Discussion
Hi All,
I have been in the current place 2yrs and bought it knowing it needed a remodel, a kitchen revamp/extension is due to kick off proceedings next year before we start redecoration on the rest of the house. The house was built in 1958 and was heavily extended in 1979, in particular the kitchen and living space does not work well for a young family IMHO. My wife and I have never had any experience of building work so looking for some advice and guidance on topics raised below, first some details.
We plan to add a single story extension to the rear, it needs planning permission due to adjoining the the exiting rear extension. We have an architect engaged and have drawn up a scheme based on our requirements.
Here is a photo of the back of the property:
And this is the existing rear floor plan:
This is what we plan to do:
- Reduce the size of the lounge
- Extend across the back to the existing store room
- Make the storeroom the utility
- Render the whole rear of the property (as the front is) to tie it in
Finished article should look like this, although the drawing does not show the parapet on the flat roof and the swage line running across the property
Some initial questions I have:
- I need to get some indicative costs from builders, are planning drawings enough for this purpose? (kitchen measures 10.5m x 5.94m including existing floor space)
- I would like to buy all the windows and doors from one source, what reputable companies have people used?
- What sort of time should I expect to complete building tender, assignment then the build itself?
I am looking to cost this out reasonably accurately, I don't want to start/stop on the project. I am also conscious of the ceiling price for property and although I don't plan on moving I would like to know I have not diminished my equity. My estate agent says I have about £100k headroom on the current price, so clearly I am looking to deliver this build well under that!
Any tips/ tricks or ideas would be welcome from fellow PH'ers, looking to gather as much info as I can before this launches next year.
I have been in the current place 2yrs and bought it knowing it needed a remodel, a kitchen revamp/extension is due to kick off proceedings next year before we start redecoration on the rest of the house. The house was built in 1958 and was heavily extended in 1979, in particular the kitchen and living space does not work well for a young family IMHO. My wife and I have never had any experience of building work so looking for some advice and guidance on topics raised below, first some details.
We plan to add a single story extension to the rear, it needs planning permission due to adjoining the the exiting rear extension. We have an architect engaged and have drawn up a scheme based on our requirements.
Here is a photo of the back of the property:
And this is the existing rear floor plan:
This is what we plan to do:
- Reduce the size of the lounge
- Extend across the back to the existing store room
- Make the storeroom the utility
- Render the whole rear of the property (as the front is) to tie it in
- Note the formal dining is not connected to the kitchen, we are still thinking about a solution for this due to the split floor level*
Finished article should look like this, although the drawing does not show the parapet on the flat roof and the swage line running across the property
Some initial questions I have:
- I need to get some indicative costs from builders, are planning drawings enough for this purpose? (kitchen measures 10.5m x 5.94m including existing floor space)
- I would like to buy all the windows and doors from one source, what reputable companies have people used?
- What sort of time should I expect to complete building tender, assignment then the build itself?
I am looking to cost this out reasonably accurately, I don't want to start/stop on the project. I am also conscious of the ceiling price for property and although I don't plan on moving I would like to know I have not diminished my equity. My estate agent says I have about £100k headroom on the current price, so clearly I am looking to deliver this build well under that!
Any tips/ tricks or ideas would be welcome from fellow PH'ers, looking to gather as much info as I can before this launches next year.
Looks nice. We did something similar (but not to this scale) 3 years ago came in just under £1000 / sq m but we are much further north where the grass is greener and tradesmen cheaper. Ours was (just) under permitted development we went to the maximum we could under the new rules.
Are you intending to move out when this happens? If your not it might be worth taking a long holiday when they are knocking through as the dust was horrendous!
Are you intending to move out when this happens? If your not it might be worth taking a long holiday when they are knocking through as the dust was horrendous!
Rule of thumb east Worcs/North Glos is 1200-1300 plus VAT per sq metre.
The one big thing to remember, get your kitchen company in at start of design, I can't give you better advice than this. You then can get everything design and utilities (electrics/plumbing) wise sorted so you can have what you want rather than having to design your kitchen around where the builders/achitect think things should go (both generally havent a clue).
The one big thing to remember, get your kitchen company in at start of design, I can't give you better advice than this. You then can get everything design and utilities (electrics/plumbing) wise sorted so you can have what you want rather than having to design your kitchen around where the builders/achitect think things should go (both generally havent a clue).
Wozy68 said:
Rule of thumb east Worcs/North Glos is 1200-1300 plus VAT per sq metre.
The one big thing to remember, get your kitchen company in at start of design, I can't give you better advice than this. You then can get everything design and utilities (electrics/plumbing) wise sorted so you can have what you want rather than having to design your kitchen around where the builders/achitect think things should go (both generally havent a clue).
thanks Wozy68The one big thing to remember, get your kitchen company in at start of design, I can't give you better advice than this. You then can get everything design and utilities (electrics/plumbing) wise sorted so you can have what you want rather than having to design your kitchen around where the builders/achitect think things should go (both generally havent a clue).
WE knocked 2 17'x14' rooms into one, there was a 3" difference in level between the two; built a suspended floor with v thick marine ply and then did the whole space in slate. There is now a small step from the kitchen when entering the hall.
If you are going to have an island make up a dummy with boxes of the island and nearby kitchen units; as its v hard to work out from lines on the floor how it will work
If you are going to have an island make up a dummy with boxes of the island and nearby kitchen units; as its v hard to work out from lines on the floor how it will work
Wozy68 said:
Rule of thumb east Worcs/North Glos is 1200-1300 plus VAT per sq metre.
Excellent advice on the plumbing and services, especially things like gas for cooking and boiler, and radiator positions.One word of warning on "rule of thumb" budgets for extensions - they won't cover things like expensive bifold doors, funny sized windows, roof lanterns, or exotic internal finishes. I'm almost at the end of having a fairly conventional 20m^2 single story extension added to my Victorian semi in Windsor, and it's going to come in at £85k in total. Before the very sharp intake of breath, bear in mind that includes: £10k of glazing (2.7m tall bifolds, a massive window, french doors, and a rooflight); changing the layout of the old kitchen and dining room (another 27m^2 of decorating, wood flooring, a new stud wall, pocket doors, etc); a completely new kitchen and all appliances (£16k); new patio, drainage and some external retaining walls - you get the idea.
My point is to work out your budget for the actual building, then make sure you're realistic about all of the additional costs that come from the knock-on effects and things you'll inevitably want to fiddle with while the building is going on. I created a detailed budget at the start which came to £80k, excluding contingency, of which my builder was c. £50k including VAT, so to come in at £85k I'm pretty chuffed!
Best of luck with the project, it looks like a fantastic house that will be even better when you're done.
Pete
pete said:
Excellent advice on the plumbing and services, especially things like gas for cooking and boiler, and radiator positions.
One word of warning on "rule of thumb" budgets for extensions - they won't cover things like expensive bifold doors, funny sized windows, roof lanterns, or exotic internal finishes. I'm almost at the end of having a fairly conventional 20m^2 single story extension added to my Victorian semi in Windsor, and it's going to come in at £85k in total. Before the very sharp intake of breath, bear in mind that includes: £10k of glazing (2.7m tall bifolds, a massive window, french doors, and a rooflight); changing the layout of the old kitchen and dining room (another 27m^2 of decorating, wood flooring, a new stud wall, pocket doors, etc); a completely new kitchen and all appliances (£16k); new patio, drainage and some external retaining walls - you get the idea.
My point is to work out your budget for the actual building, then make sure you're realistic about all of the additional costs that come from the knock-on effects and things you'll inevitably want to fiddle with while the building is going on. I created a detailed budget at the start which came to £80k, excluding contingency, of which my builder was c. £50k including VAT, so to come in at £85k I'm pretty chuffed!
Best of luck with the project, it looks like a fantastic house that will be even better when you're done.
Pete
sOne word of warning on "rule of thumb" budgets for extensions - they won't cover things like expensive bifold doors, funny sized windows, roof lanterns, or exotic internal finishes. I'm almost at the end of having a fairly conventional 20m^2 single story extension added to my Victorian semi in Windsor, and it's going to come in at £85k in total. Before the very sharp intake of breath, bear in mind that includes: £10k of glazing (2.7m tall bifolds, a massive window, french doors, and a rooflight); changing the layout of the old kitchen and dining room (another 27m^2 of decorating, wood flooring, a new stud wall, pocket doors, etc); a completely new kitchen and all appliances (£16k); new patio, drainage and some external retaining walls - you get the idea.
My point is to work out your budget for the actual building, then make sure you're realistic about all of the additional costs that come from the knock-on effects and things you'll inevitably want to fiddle with while the building is going on. I created a detailed budget at the start which came to £80k, excluding contingency, of which my builder was c. £50k including VAT, so to come in at £85k I'm pretty chuffed!
Best of luck with the project, it looks like a fantastic house that will be even better when you're done.
Pete
t. I'm adding on 90m2 - budget discussions with two builders pre plans drawn /just my scrawl on paper plus my description was £120-130k all in incl VAT.
Welshbeef said:
st.
I'm adding on 90m2 - budget discussions with two builders pre plans drawn /just my scrawl on paper plus my description was £120-130k all in incl VAT.
As my post above, you need proper details or you'll get a load of guff at this stage and problems later on. Anyone can take a view and give a fag packet price on a fag packet spec but there's a high risk of it going seriously pear shaped if you carry on down that route. As a MINIMUM Get Building Regs drawings done, be VERY definitive about the spec of all finishes and fittings and then get prices.t. I'm adding on 90m2 - budget discussions with two builders pre plans drawn /just my scrawl on paper plus my description was £120-130k all in incl VAT.
V6Pushfit said:
As my post above, you need proper details or you'll get a load of guff at this stage and problems later on. Anyone can take a view and give a fag packet price on a fag packet spec but there's a high risk of it going seriously pear shaped if you carry on down that route. As a MINIMUM Get Building Regs drawings done, be VERY definitive about the spec of all finishes and fittings and then get prices.
Thanks appreciated. Our plans went in today for planning permission will get the others done as soon as permission granted.
Welshbeef said:
st.
I'm adding on 90m2 - budget discussions with two builders pre plans drawn /just my scrawl on paper plus my description was £120-130k all in incl VAT.
I wouldn't panic too much yet. Remember my £85k includes basically 50m^2 of interior work and fit-out; and the cost of bricks, beams and roof timber, and even raw building labour is a relatively small amount of the total, and does include basically removing the back of the house and supporting it with steelwork!t. I'm adding on 90m2 - budget discussions with two builders pre plans drawn /just my scrawl on paper plus my description was £120-130k all in incl VAT.
If I'd had the room, I probably could have built a much larger extension for not a lot more money, hence my caution about rules-of-thumb applies equally to taking my total and simply dividing it by 20m^2 or even 50m^2 and then scaling that up. There's no doubt that a small ground floor extension is disproportionately expensive, and worse when you're building in the insane home counties market where nobody can afford to move, so good builders can almost name their price.
@Welshbeef, one thing I found extremely helpful was to get a detailed bill of materials from my builder as well as a cost breakdown. That's the bible we've worked to on a fixed price basis; not that I hold him to whether he's incurring every cost that he estimated (that would be T&M behaviour) but it did help validate that everything I expected to be included was included in the fixed price, and made sure we identified things in the spec that had significant cost that might otherwise have been missed. It's been really helpful when we've found some things more complicated, and others simpler than expected, to simply trade one against another, rather than constantly getting into an argument about what was assumed in the scope of the job.
If you get the nod there are no queries then start the regs drawings without losing the full 8 weeks. Get at least 3 prices on a good spec document done by the guy that does the drawings. But be very wary of going to the cheapest surveyor you need fully detailed drawings not just 'enough to get Building regs' as they're of no use beyond that!
8-P said:
Looks great, I think Id want to be able to get from dining to family via a door direct, or swap lounge for diner. We knocked our kitchen into diner, works great but if I had room for a separate diner it would gather dust I fear. That said you may do far more formal dining than me.
I agree this is a sticking point now, we want to convert the lounge to a snug as it has an open fire that we love. The formal dining is massive (25x14ft) and only used once in a blue moon (my wife calls it the Xmas room). She is keen to retain it but I would like to lop off some space and have a walk-through from the kitchen and maybe a small study.jdwoodbury said:
I agree this is a sticking point now, we want to convert the lounge to a snug as it has an open fire that we love. The formal dining is massive (25x14ft) and only used once in a blue moon (my wife calls it the Xmas room). She is keen to retain it but I would like to lop off some space and have a walk-through from the kitchen and maybe a small study.
Nice problem to have - a relative has a similar size house, theyve gone for a formal living room, big sofas, fire etc and a smaller tv room with an insanse sized tv and other kit they cant spell let alone operate. They now dont use the formal living room other than on the very odd occassion. I think this is a problem when you get beyond the obvious rooms you know you will use, the next room is liable to be a lower use room, its just a case of making it as higher use as possible. Aspect is important here, where is South?Take a look at http://suncalc.net/
Im a bit of a sun obsessive, but it might make you think about opening up the front of the house to get that Southern sun
If you could get the light and warmth through from the lounge into you kitchen it could be nice
Im a bit of a sun obsessive, but it might make you think about opening up the front of the house to get that Southern sun
If you could get the light and warmth through from the lounge into you kitchen it could be nice
dmsims said:
Think the skylights above kitchen look messy - flat or less height instead or just one?
Yeah I agree, I think its just a standard graphic. We have been to see a few from providers and you can get them much more slimline that you see in the picture. Actually with the parapet on the roof I guess you may struggle to see the at all from ground level.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff