First Porsche, high miles 944, what could go wrong...
Discussion
Hi
I recently sold my motorcycle which left a hole in the shape of something mechanical. Then was offered the chance to aquire a Porsche 944 s2 at a price I felt I couldn't turn down. The next fe months will decide if that was a good judgement, yet the car was delivered today and I must say I'm very pleased so far.
The car has 203,000 miles. So it's been used well at some point in it's life but to be honest hides it well. It does need some loving and I've only driven it up and down the road a bit so there's room for utter disappointment yet. Pluses are it has a full stainless exhaust which isn't loud and looks good, it also has refurbed wheels with good matching tyres. There's plenty of history there, even some stamps from RSR and Ruf which impressed me. I'm looking forward to giving it some tlc.
If anyone has any advice for must do jobs or any good owners club forums worth joining for advice I'd appreciate it. Like I say it's my first Porsche so it's all new to me.
I recently sold my motorcycle which left a hole in the shape of something mechanical. Then was offered the chance to aquire a Porsche 944 s2 at a price I felt I couldn't turn down. The next fe months will decide if that was a good judgement, yet the car was delivered today and I must say I'm very pleased so far.
The car has 203,000 miles. So it's been used well at some point in it's life but to be honest hides it well. It does need some loving and I've only driven it up and down the road a bit so there's room for utter disappointment yet. Pluses are it has a full stainless exhaust which isn't loud and looks good, it also has refurbed wheels with good matching tyres. There's plenty of history there, even some stamps from RSR and Ruf which impressed me. I'm looking forward to giving it some tlc.
If anyone has any advice for must do jobs or any good owners club forums worth joining for advice I'd appreciate it. Like I say it's my first Porsche so it's all new to me.
Edited by rufusgti on Monday 21st November 19:48
It looks pretty straight
Dont do anything until you are sure what state the sills are in, get an endoscopic camera in.
Also, have a look at the head, what kind of state are the cam sprockets, chains, tensioners etc in, these S2 engines can need a lot of work on the top end, am guessing it has had work at some point at that mileage, worth taking the cam cover off for a nosey, mine had 2 grand spent on the top end at Hartech before I got it and it was in fine fettle, it went well, certainly felt better than 208 bhp or turbo owners would have you believe, so if it isnt then that might be issues.
Mine had a hot start issue I never got to the bottom of, replaced most of the injection system, good news, bits were dead cheap off Ebay.
Check the clutch, its not a nice job.
If the gear linkage is sloppy, the bits are fairly easy to get but a fiddly thing to fit, but improves it no end, I tried a quickshift but didnt get on with it, good standard one is fine.
Lights are a firefly in a jam jar, they are all like that.
Check the fuel system over, they can get a bit leaky in old age.
Check the brake pipes, they also can be leaky
Brakes are fairly decent, even by modern standards, I put braided hoses on mine, changed the fluid and it improved it quite a bit.
Order a new digital clock
Do a realistic assessment of condition and what it needs, might be worth chucking it in for an MOT and see if it can get one.
Nothing is insurmountable, the two main things to check are the rust situation, mine had rusted pretty badly under the stonechip stuff near the rear diffuser, had to do a lot of welding, front wing had gone, so had it off and put a patch in, sills were going, did a bit of work on them but really needed doing properly. The other one is the engine, if you need the sprockets, you need cams as they are one casting, have a look at the head gasket situation as well.
Good luck and I really hope it turns out to be a good one !
Dont do anything until you are sure what state the sills are in, get an endoscopic camera in.
Also, have a look at the head, what kind of state are the cam sprockets, chains, tensioners etc in, these S2 engines can need a lot of work on the top end, am guessing it has had work at some point at that mileage, worth taking the cam cover off for a nosey, mine had 2 grand spent on the top end at Hartech before I got it and it was in fine fettle, it went well, certainly felt better than 208 bhp or turbo owners would have you believe, so if it isnt then that might be issues.
Mine had a hot start issue I never got to the bottom of, replaced most of the injection system, good news, bits were dead cheap off Ebay.
Check the clutch, its not a nice job.
If the gear linkage is sloppy, the bits are fairly easy to get but a fiddly thing to fit, but improves it no end, I tried a quickshift but didnt get on with it, good standard one is fine.
Lights are a firefly in a jam jar, they are all like that.
Check the fuel system over, they can get a bit leaky in old age.
Check the brake pipes, they also can be leaky
Brakes are fairly decent, even by modern standards, I put braided hoses on mine, changed the fluid and it improved it quite a bit.
Order a new digital clock
Do a realistic assessment of condition and what it needs, might be worth chucking it in for an MOT and see if it can get one.
Nothing is insurmountable, the two main things to check are the rust situation, mine had rusted pretty badly under the stonechip stuff near the rear diffuser, had to do a lot of welding, front wing had gone, so had it off and put a patch in, sills were going, did a bit of work on them but really needed doing properly. The other one is the engine, if you need the sprockets, you need cams as they are one casting, have a look at the head gasket situation as well.
Good luck and I really hope it turns out to be a good one !
rallycross said:
Great old cars have owned a few of them ( good and bad).
Rule number 1.
Don't take it to a Specialist" - give it a good check over and then take it t a normal independent MOT garage and see what they say.
Nothing difficult about fixing these cars that a good mechanic can't fix.
That's really interesting. I've not heard that before, but looking through the receipts from specialists reveals some eye watering labour costs for things like new discs and pads. I guess people build up trust with certain garages and that along with convienience goes along way often.Rule number 1.
Don't take it to a Specialist" - give it a good check over and then take it t a normal independent MOT garage and see what they say.
Nothing difficult about fixing these cars that a good mechanic can't fix.
I'm restoring a C reg version of one of these at the moment with a friend who owns the car. High miles too (180k) but it's clearly been well looked after and you just can't tell the mileage without looking at the dash.
Only tip from me: Check the sills. Check the sills. Check the sills. Check the sills.
The one I'm taking apart at the moment has completely rotten sills, and they're known for it. To be fair, we knew this when my friend bought the car, but it's turned in to quite a big job and slightly worse than I originally reckoned. Remarkably, all other areas of the body are virtually as new.
Only tip from me: Check the sills. Check the sills. Check the sills. Check the sills.
The one I'm taking apart at the moment has completely rotten sills, and they're known for it. To be fair, we knew this when my friend bought the car, but it's turned in to quite a big job and slightly worse than I originally reckoned. Remarkably, all other areas of the body are virtually as new.
Thanks for the advice, I've spent the evening checking through the history to try and build up a picture of what's been done. There's extensive history up to about 180k, there's work been done at various specialists inc the cambelt tensioners in 2005 and again in 2008, about 20k miles ago.
Sills have been repaired at some point I can see. They look solid if a little scruffy, but I can sort that myself.
Yes, interior clock doesn't seem to work, or the interior light overhead. I'll be making a list of what needs looking at as I go. Hopefully I can get my hands dirty myself and leave the complex stuff to a specialist. Are there any good value Porsche specialists in south Wales?
Sills have been repaired at some point I can see. They look solid if a little scruffy, but I can sort that myself.
Yes, interior clock doesn't seem to work, or the interior light overhead. I'll be making a list of what needs looking at as I go. Hopefully I can get my hands dirty myself and leave the complex stuff to a specialist. Are there any good value Porsche specialists in south Wales?
rufusgti said:
Thanks for the advice, I've spent the evening checking through the history to try and build up a picture of what's been done. There's extensive history up to about 180k, there's work been done at various specialists inc the cambelt tensioners in 2005 and again in 2008, about 20k miles ago.
Sills have been repaired at some point I can see. They look solid if a little scruffy, but I can sort that myself.
Yes, interior clock doesn't seem to work, or the interior light overhead. I'll be making a list of what needs looking at as I go. Hopefully I can get my hands dirty myself and leave the complex stuff to a specialist. Are there any good value Porsche specialists in south Wales?
MOT history not too horrific at all - looks like some rust issues approx 3.5 years ago (2013) but nothing flagged since, and some suspension bushes etc around 2008-2010 @ 185-190k miles mark.Sills have been repaired at some point I can see. They look solid if a little scruffy, but I can sort that myself.
Yes, interior clock doesn't seem to work, or the interior light overhead. I'll be making a list of what needs looking at as I go. Hopefully I can get my hands dirty myself and leave the complex stuff to a specialist. Are there any good value Porsche specialists in south Wales?
rufusgti said:
That's really interesting. I've not heard that before, but looking through the receipts from specialists reveals some eye watering labour costs for things like new discs and pads. I guess people build up trust with certain garages and that along with convienience goes along way often.
I've owned loads of these (turbo, turbo S, silver rose, 16v 2.5, S2 3.0, 8v, turbo cabs and 968' sport) and I still love them even though they are getting a bit old now but they are so well made that mileage is not a problem on these cars if well looked after.Some of the bills I've seen in the history of my cars (from previous owners) have also been eye watering, which is quite ridiculous as for most jobs these cars are not complex, parts can easily be bought for reasonable prices, hence avoid a specialist if you have a decent local garage. Nothing complicated about changing brake disks or refurbishing calipers.
I'll give you an example, one 944 came to me from a mate who had taken it to a specialist for its MOT, it came with a quote from the specialist' over £2k to fix for MOT (sills plus various little bits).
On taking it to my normal garage we found the car to be a nice solid shell, required two small (tiny) bits of welding and a bit of paint of the lower sills, plus a couple of small jobs - which came to £350. Unless you are doing something tricky like rebuilding the head or swapping the diff avoid so called "specialists' - just find a good mechanic.
Just a quick update of how things have gone in the first week.
Pretty good actually, after the initial shock of me not really remembering what old cars are like I started to settle in to it. I've not been far as I wanted to see how it was so just short journeys nipping about. It's good. There's a lot of jobs that need doing, lots. But that's ok. I'm prioritising them in the best way I can. I'm really enjoying the seating position and the ride quality is great. There seems to be tons of power and 3rd gear seems to cater for most of city driving until you have to stop for lights etc. I love the interior and plan on giving it a thorough clean soon. But other jobs need to be done first.
Firstly the car is booked into the body shop for the sills to be taken back to metal and re "stone chipped". They're not rotten, but they've been repaired in the past and the paints kind of peeling off the welds, not pretty and will just get much worse if it's left over winter so that's the first job. I'm not having them painted body colour as that would cost more and will be done in the summer if the car turns out to be worth keeping and not draining too much money. At that time I'm going to get the whole roof painted as some scabby chips at the leading edge of the windscreen and some marks on the sunroof really let it down, I guess because it's low your eyes are drawn to the roof lines.
Second job is the gear linkage. It's, well it's shot. Loads of play. I've seen a few write ups online about overhauling and there's a company that sells super duper rose jointed assemblies. I don't really want to spend that much so thinking of going for genuine part and do it myself. Has anyone done this, I can't find a step by step process so would love some advice on what tools I'm going to need etc.
I'll get some better pics up as soon as possible.
Pretty good actually, after the initial shock of me not really remembering what old cars are like I started to settle in to it. I've not been far as I wanted to see how it was so just short journeys nipping about. It's good. There's a lot of jobs that need doing, lots. But that's ok. I'm prioritising them in the best way I can. I'm really enjoying the seating position and the ride quality is great. There seems to be tons of power and 3rd gear seems to cater for most of city driving until you have to stop for lights etc. I love the interior and plan on giving it a thorough clean soon. But other jobs need to be done first.
Firstly the car is booked into the body shop for the sills to be taken back to metal and re "stone chipped". They're not rotten, but they've been repaired in the past and the paints kind of peeling off the welds, not pretty and will just get much worse if it's left over winter so that's the first job. I'm not having them painted body colour as that would cost more and will be done in the summer if the car turns out to be worth keeping and not draining too much money. At that time I'm going to get the whole roof painted as some scabby chips at the leading edge of the windscreen and some marks on the sunroof really let it down, I guess because it's low your eyes are drawn to the roof lines.
Second job is the gear linkage. It's, well it's shot. Loads of play. I've seen a few write ups online about overhauling and there's a company that sells super duper rose jointed assemblies. I don't really want to spend that much so thinking of going for genuine part and do it myself. Has anyone done this, I can't find a step by step process so would love some advice on what tools I'm going to need etc.
I'll get some better pics up as soon as possible.
With the gear linkage I just got a good second hand one from a breakers after weeks of messing about trying to get a quickshift working, I did mine this time of the year and gave myself a stiff back, its a bit of a bugger to get at, I recommend some ratchet spanners, the adjustable head types, think its a 17 mm on the top of the box and it is hard work without one, it is hard work with but you have limited room and its a pig to get on and off so not having to makes life a lot easier. The front end is easier, rose joints and stuff are fine but it seems to need some pliancy in the linkage that the rubber provides, you might have more luck than me though. The main issues seems to be wear in the main plastic bush and the rubber bits go all gooey so like with a lot of things the temptation is to go for modified and stiffer when new original equipment is plenty good enough, the gearchange is pretty good when its all working.
They are quite quick despite what people think, still six seconds or therabouts to sixty and a decent wadge of torque, I think people think a diesel Golf would muller it, no it wouldnt if its fit and well, overshadowed by the Turbo but its a nice engine in its own right.
They are quite quick despite what people think, still six seconds or therabouts to sixty and a decent wadge of torque, I think people think a diesel Golf would muller it, no it wouldnt if its fit and well, overshadowed by the Turbo but its a nice engine in its own right.
For the gear shifter and linkage see here: http://only944.com/partscatalog/only/shortshifter/
They're very good quality, give great feel and should be A LOT cheaper than OPC prices. The linkage allows you to run the stock ratio or 'quick'. I run mine in the stock position in my 951 race car. Up front I have a JMG shift lever that the previous owner fitted which works great, but the Only944 version is very similar for less money. From memory they ship them using USPS so I avoided import tax and VAT...
Everyone who's bought them on TIPEC and PCGB seems to have been very happy with them. All I'll say is you need to use loctite on the fasteners to keep everything tight.
Good work on the purchase, they're great cars. I'll echo what's said above on getting the cam gears and fuel lines checked over, as these are critical points.
They're very good quality, give great feel and should be A LOT cheaper than OPC prices. The linkage allows you to run the stock ratio or 'quick'. I run mine in the stock position in my 951 race car. Up front I have a JMG shift lever that the previous owner fitted which works great, but the Only944 version is very similar for less money. From memory they ship them using USPS so I avoided import tax and VAT...
Everyone who's bought them on TIPEC and PCGB seems to have been very happy with them. All I'll say is you need to use loctite on the fasteners to keep everything tight.
Good work on the purchase, they're great cars. I'll echo what's said above on getting the cam gears and fuel lines checked over, as these are critical points.
The mileage with these things is not a concernt IME, but the condition of the car is. My 70k 944 Turbo was one of the more reliable 944s out there from what I could tell and it was not like I wasn't using it either. It was doing around 10k a year!
That said, it did have many things changed on it over the years (cooling system, suspension (all of the bushes, KWv3s etc), and the brakes upgraded. It was a lovely lovely car.
. The Only944 shifter is what I would have fitted to mine if I kept it. It makes a pleasant difference to the knackered items.
However, EMC Motorsport in Brum are pretty decent and are reasonably priced.
That said.
However, was the welding cutting the metal out and replacing it or simply grinding back the rust and patching it? IME the latter always comes back, generally worse and taking out other panels despite the cost. I used to patch cars a bit but stopped it quite a while ago when cars became keepers and I ended up fixing my own bodges or previous ones!
I've seen some stupid bills mind you from specialists, where you believe they are probably taking liberties.
Back to the OP, enjoy. I really liked my 944 S2 but it wasn't probably as nice as yours despite the low miles.
That said, it did have many things changed on it over the years (cooling system, suspension (all of the bushes, KWv3s etc), and the brakes upgraded. It was a lovely lovely car.
Richair said:
For the gear shifter and linkage see here: http://only944.com/partscatalog/only/shortshifter/
They're very good quality, give great feel and should be A LOT cheaper than OPC prices. The linkage allows you to run the stock ratio or 'quick'. I run mine in the stock position in my 951 race car. Up front I have a JMG shift lever that the previous owner fitted which works great, but the Only944 version is very similar for less money. From memory they ship them using USPS so I avoided import tax and VAT...
Everyone who's bought them on TIPEC and PCGB seems to have been very happy with them. All I'll say is you need to use loctite on the fasteners to keep everything tight.
Good work on the purchase, they're great cars. I'll echo what's said above on getting the cam gears and fuel lines checked over, as these are critical points.
What he said They're very good quality, give great feel and should be A LOT cheaper than OPC prices. The linkage allows you to run the stock ratio or 'quick'. I run mine in the stock position in my 951 race car. Up front I have a JMG shift lever that the previous owner fitted which works great, but the Only944 version is very similar for less money. From memory they ship them using USPS so I avoided import tax and VAT...
Everyone who's bought them on TIPEC and PCGB seems to have been very happy with them. All I'll say is you need to use loctite on the fasteners to keep everything tight.
Good work on the purchase, they're great cars. I'll echo what's said above on getting the cam gears and fuel lines checked over, as these are critical points.
. The Only944 shifter is what I would have fitted to mine if I kept it. It makes a pleasant difference to the knackered items.rufusgti said:
That's really interesting. I've not heard that before, but looking through the receipts from specialists reveals some eye watering labour costs for things like new discs and pads. I guess people build up trust with certain garages and that along with convienience goes along way often.
A friend of mine who may be on here and is known in the Porker circles got burned by a very well known specialist. I will not mention them as we have seen what can happen with names etc. and also forums with liability etc.However, EMC Motorsport in Brum are pretty decent and are reasonably priced.
That said.
rallycross said:
I've owned loads of these (turbo, turbo S, silver rose, 16v 2.5, S2 3.0, 8v, turbo cabs and 968' sport) and I still love them even though they are getting a bit old now but they are so well made that mileage is not a problem on these cars if well looked after.
Some of the bills I've seen in the history of my cars (from previous owners) have also been eye watering, which is quite ridiculous as for most jobs these cars are not complex, parts can easily be bought for reasonable prices, hence avoid a specialist if you have a decent local garage. Nothing complicated about changing brake disks or refurbishing calipers.
I'll give you an example, one 944 came to me from a mate who had taken it to a specialist for its MOT, it came with a quote from the specialist' over £2k to fix for MOT (sills plus various little bits).
On taking it to my normal garage we found the car to be a nice solid shell, required two small (tiny) bits of welding and a bit of paint of the lower sills, plus a couple of small jobs - which came to £350. Unless you are doing something tricky like rebuilding the head or swapping the diff avoid so called "specialists' - just find a good mechanic.
I'd agree with that. Lower arms from example a doddle to change on these as are the wheel bearings and rear shocks. Nothing complicated at all.Some of the bills I've seen in the history of my cars (from previous owners) have also been eye watering, which is quite ridiculous as for most jobs these cars are not complex, parts can easily be bought for reasonable prices, hence avoid a specialist if you have a decent local garage. Nothing complicated about changing brake disks or refurbishing calipers.
I'll give you an example, one 944 came to me from a mate who had taken it to a specialist for its MOT, it came with a quote from the specialist' over £2k to fix for MOT (sills plus various little bits).
On taking it to my normal garage we found the car to be a nice solid shell, required two small (tiny) bits of welding and a bit of paint of the lower sills, plus a couple of small jobs - which came to £350. Unless you are doing something tricky like rebuilding the head or swapping the diff avoid so called "specialists' - just find a good mechanic.
However, was the welding cutting the metal out and replacing it or simply grinding back the rust and patching it? IME the latter always comes back, generally worse and taking out other panels despite the cost. I used to patch cars a bit but stopped it quite a while ago when cars became keepers and I ended up fixing my own bodges or previous ones!
I've seen some stupid bills mind you from specialists, where you believe they are probably taking liberties.
Back to the OP, enjoy. I really liked my 944 S2 but it wasn't probably as nice as yours despite the low miles.
Just wanted to give a bit of an update nearly a month in.
The car has been really great. It went to the body shop to have the sills tidied up. He stripped then back to bare metal, repaired a section that had been badly repaired in the past to a poor standard and re finished them. Inner sills are fine and he said the car is good elsewhere. So that's good, at least I know the shell is tidy before spending money.
I've been using the car quite a bit, there's not been anything major come up that concerns me, just plenty of little bits that need doing. I've spent a few hours fixing things like the rear demister, the interior lights, and a few interior trims. On the list are little things l
Heater fan only works on number 4 (blasting)
I think a disc is warped as when you are braking to a stop you get a strange pulsing on the brakes.
The wheels need balancing as there's a wobble around 65mph that you can drive through?
The brakes are crap. Not sure why but I need to check the pads and possibly replace.
One job that's annoying but not that high on the list, the indicator stalk doesn't click into place turning right, and doesn't cancel turning left. I've whipped the wheel off but it looks like a sealed unit so perhaps will look for another.
Apart from those niggles it's great. It goes really well. A few friends were very surprised how it pulls away. Not sure why, but I wasn't really expecting it to be quick. The handling isn't what I'm used to. Ive not spent much time in RWD cars so it's all a bit new. I can feel the car kind of talking to me, but it's like a foreign language at the moment. Time will sort that I guess.
I'll tray and get some better pics this week.
The car has been really great. It went to the body shop to have the sills tidied up. He stripped then back to bare metal, repaired a section that had been badly repaired in the past to a poor standard and re finished them. Inner sills are fine and he said the car is good elsewhere. So that's good, at least I know the shell is tidy before spending money.
I've been using the car quite a bit, there's not been anything major come up that concerns me, just plenty of little bits that need doing. I've spent a few hours fixing things like the rear demister, the interior lights, and a few interior trims. On the list are little things l
Heater fan only works on number 4 (blasting)
I think a disc is warped as when you are braking to a stop you get a strange pulsing on the brakes.
The wheels need balancing as there's a wobble around 65mph that you can drive through?
The brakes are crap. Not sure why but I need to check the pads and possibly replace.
One job that's annoying but not that high on the list, the indicator stalk doesn't click into place turning right, and doesn't cancel turning left. I've whipped the wheel off but it looks like a sealed unit so perhaps will look for another.
Apart from those niggles it's great. It goes really well. A few friends were very surprised how it pulls away. Not sure why, but I wasn't really expecting it to be quick. The handling isn't what I'm used to. Ive not spent much time in RWD cars so it's all a bit new. I can feel the car kind of talking to me, but it's like a foreign language at the moment. Time will sort that I guess.
I'll tray and get some better pics this week.
After a few weeks In the lock up I decided to get the 944 out for a few light duties.
It's had a fresh battery and a few more fixes. I've some new indicator stalks to fit tomorrow and still plan on replacing the gear linkage. I'm thoroughly enjoying this car and so far she still owes me under 4K, which seems somewhat of a bargain the more I drive it. I do however think the brake system could do with a strip down and overhaul. I've been browsing the various firms that take your calipers, strip, rebuild and repaint in any colour you choose. So I'm weighing up that idea next.
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