Help needed with my old landlord

[richatnort]

Afternoon all,

So after some legal advice and not sure if this is the place to put it so apologies.

So in July we bought our first house and were in a rental at the time. I explained this to the landlord as i asked if i could end the contract early. She didn't agree but agreed to a month early which would mean my contracted ended on the 30th September.

I had a text message from her today asking for £40 for a British gas bill for a period of time. After phoning BG up and finding the dates she told me stupidly that the new tenants moved into the house on the 7th September. I've raised this with her as in my eyes i'm owed 27 days worth of rent back as she got someone in before my contract ran out and therefore has additional rent to the sum of £498.18.

Cut a long story short she's refusing to give me the sum back and isn't giving me a clear reason why not. This is completely out of my depth and I don't know where to start. I know some will say it's not a lot of money and forget about it but being a first time buyer not on a great wage it's very much a large sum of money to myself and could go towards so much on my house.

Thanks

[The Moose]

As a landlord, I'd always be flexible as possible in the way you describe if a tenant wanted to leave early on the assumption the outgoing tenant covered any costs incurred and the rent up until the new tenant moved in.

When I used to rent however, I would have expected what happened to you. The mistake you made was giving her the house + keys back before the end of the AST.

[craig1912]

Not sure there is anything you can do- you were actually liable for another months rent but she let you off. You could have stayed in the house until 30September but chose not to- she managed to get another tenant in. I'd probably not pay the £40 gas bill but that's about it.

[Foliage]

richatnort said:

Afternoon all,

So after some legal advice and not sure if this is the place to put it so apologies.

So in July we bought our first house and were in a rental at the time. I explained this to the landlord as i asked if i could end the contract early. She didn't agree but agreed to a month early which would mean my contracted ended on the 30th September.

I had a text message from her today asking for £40 for a British gas bill for a period of time. After phoning BG up and finding the dates she told me stupidly that the new tenants moved into the house on the 7th September. I've raised this with her as in my eyes i'm owed 27 days worth of rent back as she got someone in before my contract ran out and therefore has additional rent to the sum of £498.18.

Cut a long story short she's refusing to give me the sum back and isn't giving me a clear reason why not. This is completely out of my depth and I don't know where to start. I know some will say it's not a lot of money and forget about it but being a first time buyer not on a great wage it's very much a large sum of money to myself and could go towards so much on my house.

Thanks

Your entitled to nothing. The key word here is contract, you signed it, you have to pay it.

How would you feel if she'd kicked you out a couple of months early because she'd found a new tenant who would pay more? contracts swing both ways.

[iphonedyou]

richatnort said:

Afternoon all,

So after some legal advice and not sure if this is the place to put it so apologies.

So in July we bought our first house and were in a rental at the time. I explained this to the landlord as i asked if i could end the contract early. She didn't agree but agreed to a month early which would mean my contracted ended on the 30th September.

I had a text message from her today asking for £40 for a British gas bill for a period of time. After phoning BG up and finding the dates she told me stupidly that the new tenants moved into the house on the 7th September. I've raised this with her as in my eyes i'm owed 27 days worth of rent back as she got someone in before my contract ran out and therefore has additional rent to the sum of £498.18.

Cut a long story short she's refusing to give me the sum back and isn't giving me a clear reason why not. This is completely out of my depth and I don't know where to start. I know some will say it's not a lot of money and forget about it but being a first time buyer not on a great wage it's very much a large sum of money to myself and could go towards so much on my house.

Thanks

You're entitled to not one bean. Think about it!

"i'm owed 27 days worth of rent back as she got someone in before my contract ran out

You say it yourself, right there - your contract was still in effect. You therefore pay your rent.

We left our rented flat a week early and handed back the keys, and didn't expect (or get) a return of any rent. It was contractually due, and taken, per the landlord's entitlement.

She did try and keep back £1,500 of the deposit, mind, of which she got not one bean.

Edited by iphonedyou on Tuesday 29th November 14:30

[sidekickdmr]

iphonedyou said:

You're entitled to not one bean. Which makes sense, when you think about it!

We left our rented flat a week early and handed back the keys, and didn't expect (or get) a return of any rent. It was contractually due, and taken, per the landlord's entitlement.

She did try and keep back £1,500 of the deposit, mind, of which she got not one bean.

The difference with your senario is you had the flat till the end of the tenancy agreement you paid for.

In OP's case, he paid for it till the end of the newly agreed shortened term, the contract finished on the 30th September and they had paid till this date.

The Landlord moved someone in while someone else was still in contract and paying the rent.

[kowalski655]

But looking at it from another way,if the contract ended on 30 Sept, then OP should have use of flat till than....say if he fancied a night of peace & quiet away from the other half on 10 Sept , he would be aggrieved at finding someone in a place he had paid for,and was STILL paying for
IANAL so have no idea if 2 ASTs can be in place at 1 time? Would the new people be sub tenants of OP?

[richatnort]

sidekickdmr said:

iphonedyou said:

You're entitled to not one bean. Which makes sense, when you think about it!

We left our rented flat a week early and handed back the keys, and didn't expect (or get) a return of any rent. It was contractually due, and taken, per the landlord's entitlement.

She did try and keep back £1,500 of the deposit, mind, of which she got not one bean.

The difference with your senario is you had the flat till the end of the tenancy agreement you paid for.

In OP's case, he paid for it till the end of the newly agreed shortened term, the contract finished on the 30th September and they had paid till this date.

The Landlord moved someone in while someone else was still in contract and paying the rent.

Has she therefore sublet the house while i was still in possession of it?

I found this article interesting.

https://blog.upad.co.uk/blog/what-happens-after-yo...

[MUDGUTZ]

Some of these landlords & letting agents think they can make up the rules as they go along. Try this:

Dear Landlady,

Thank you for your, text, I have taken advice and feel you owe me £498.18. [insert reasons here] I am willing to reduce that amount by £100 to £398.18 as a goodwill gesture and hope you will reimburse me promptly rather than me persuing you through the small claims court.

If you can prove I owe £40 you can take this from the £398.18 I am intending to persue you for.

etc. etc.

[sidekickdmr]

Just keep it simple,

Dear Mr/Mrs Landlord,

My contract on your property didn’t expire until the 30th of September 2016 and I had paid the rent for the apartment up till this date.

I therefore was still entitled to use of the apartment at any time up till the 30th September 2016. I agreed to return the keys to you as goodwill so you could commence viewings and inspections but I would have been fully within my rights to use the apartment during this period.

I have since found out that you rented the apartment out to new tenants and moved them in while I was still legally renting the apartment from yourself and paying rent, therefore during this period you were charging someone else to stay in my apartment.

I would therefore like to receive a refund of rent for this period, (minus £40 if you think you owe it).

[iphonedyou]

sidekickdmr said:

The difference with your senario is you had the flat till the end of the tenancy agreement you paid for.

In OP's case, he paid for it till the end of the newly agreed shortened term, the contract finished on the 30th September and they had paid till this date.

The Landlord moved someone in while someone else was still in contract and paying the rent.

Makes no odds, though.

We paid for ours until the end of our agreed term, handed back keys in advance thereof - as OP has done - and paid our rent until term end, as we were contractually obligated to. And as the OP is almost certainly contractually obligated to.

For all I know our landlord had somebody in the next day while we were still in contract. It'll be a goodwill issue (if even).

[Muncher]

By handing the keys back you have surrendered the lease, it's come to an end regardless of what your contract said, therefore she can do what she likes with it from that point onwards.

Think about it, you haven't been deprived of anything even if you think the contract ran beyond the date you handed the keys back, you couldn't have continued to use the property as you had no keys.

[craigjm]

MUDGUTZ said:

Some of these landlords & letting agents think they can make up the rules as they go along. Try this:

Dear Landlady,

Thank you for your, text, I have taken advice and feel you owe me £498.18. [insert reasons here] I am willing to reduce that amount by £100 to £398.18 as a goodwill gesture and hope you will reimburse me promptly rather than me persuing you through the small claims court.

If you can prove I owe £40 you can take this from the £398.18 I am intending to persue you for.

etc. etc.

Some people think they can make rules up as the go along too much like the poster above.

Muncher said:

By handing the keys back you have surrendered the lease, it's come to an end regardless of what your contract said, therefore she can do what she likes with it from that point onwards.

Exactly this.You surrendered your lease. She has done nothing wrong and has actually saved you a months rent based on what you signed up for. Time to put it behind you and get on with your new home and be thankful that she was willing to let you off a month.

[richatnort]

Muncher said:

By handing the keys back you have surrendered the lease, it's come to an end regardless of what your contract said, therefore she can do what she likes with it from that point onwards.

Think about it, you haven't been deprived of anything even if you think the contract ran beyond the date you handed the keys back, you couldn't have continued to use the property as you had no keys.

I gave the keys back to help the landlord get viewings to the property as it was vacant. I could of really easily gone back to the estate agents and asked for the keys back to do something in the property as the estate agent even has on their records that our contract is to end on the 30th September.

[Muncher]

Who was paying the council tax on the property whilst it was empty?

[iphonedyou]

richatnort said:

I gave the keys back to help the landlord get viewings to the property as it was vacant. I could of really easily gone back to the estate agents and asked for the keys back to do something in the property as the estate agent even has on their records that our contract is to end on the 30th September.

Surely the estate agent's records would have said 31st October - remember, that month your landlord let you off?

She'll be wondering why she bothered.

[E36GUY]

richatnort said:

I gave the keys back to help the landlord get viewings to the property as it was vacant. I could of really easily gone back to the estate agents and asked for the keys back to do something in the property as the estate agent even has on their records that our contract is to end on the 30th September.

Not how I see it. Yes you did pay until the end of September as per the agreement you were contractually obliged to. In my view, by vacating the flat and handing in the keys you have forfeited the lease. That was your choice and the landlady was entitled to therefore start proceedings to secure a new tenant in at her convenience. There was nothing at that point to say she had to wait until 1st October as the flat was vacant.

It may have taken some weeks to find a tenant and her investment was covered to the 30th but she got lucky and found someone more quickly. She doesn't owe you anything.

[richatnort]

So i read up a bit more in this issue and it would seem that legally I am in my rights to get my rent back. As I didn't legally sign that I relinquish my tenancy she's technically sub rented the house out while I'm in my tenancy. The problem is my contracted said that my tenancy runs out on the 30th September so if I choose to leave it unoccupied for that time that's my choice as there isn't anything in the contract to say it can't be unoccupied for X amount days. I'm going to write her a formal letter and tell her these facts and tell her that I'm going to small claims court because it's £35 and if the law decides I'm not right and I'm bit owed it but I just feel robbed and I can't understand how someone can keep £500 when they aren't out of pocket and could easily send it back instead of spending it on whatever she's spent it on

[Slagathore]

richatnort said:

So i read up a bit more in this issue and it would seem that legally I am in my rights to get my rent back. As I didn't legally sign that I relinquish my tenancy she's technically sub rented the house out while I'm in my tenancy. The problem is my contracted said that my tenancy runs out on the 30th September so if I choose to leave it unoccupied for that time that's my choice as there isn't anything in the contract to say it can't be unoccupied for X amount days. I'm going to write her a formal letter and tell her these facts and tell her that I'm going to small claims court because it's £35 and if the law decides I'm not right and I'm bit owed it but I just feel robbed and I can't understand how someone can keep £500 when they aren't out of pocket and could easily send it back instead of spending it on whatever she's spent it on

I don't think you specifically have to sign anything for it to be legal. Verbal or text message still works.

As Muncher said, by handing the keys back, you have probably been seen to surrender the contract, and the landlord/agent accepting them backs that up. If they didn't agree to a surrender, they wouldn't accept the keys back for the exact reason that if it goes to court, thay could suggest they agreed to it.

If you could have gotten keys from the agents, why would the landlord need your keys for viewings, when they could have gotten them from the agents as well? And wouldn't the agents be doing the viewings anyway, so if they have keys, they don't need yours back. So other than surrendering the contract, I can't really see how you handing the keys back was to do anyone a favour.

I can see why you feel hard done by, but to waste time pursuing it seems pointless. I don't know how small claims works, or if you still need representation of some sort? If you go on your own, there's a fair chance you'll lose, and you're not guranteed a win even if you take a lawyer.

The landlord has still done you a favour. They could have enforced the contract and cost you even more money.

[dazwalsh]

The thing here is if you offered your keys for viewings or if you handed them back and walked away, if the latter then thats tenancy surrender and unfortunately you wouldnt have any form of comeback. If the former its probably breaking a lot of rules, but as you never returned or intended to return before September 30th then it would be hard to argue at this stage.

Lick your wounds and move on.