Help with Speedfit push fitting please -VIDEO of problem

[Tampon]

After this thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I bought all the fittings and have been connecting everything up today. It has all gone like a dream and dead easy to use until I got to the tap to speedfit pipe connection.

This is the fitting




Everything else is a twist fit and works great but this push fit connection is blowing out when pressure is applied.

I have made a video to show and explain what is going on. The first time the superseal insert went in firmly but the pipe never felt secure as it would turn in the fitting.

I have cut the pipe very carefully with a pipe cutter on the marks and it is straight and clean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHUw_IguLd0

Any help very gratefully received.

Is there a compressible collar on the end of the push fit connector? there just seems to be a plastic ring with a rubber o ring behind it inside and the insert stays behind the o ring in the connector but can be pulled out when the pipe blows off.

Can't figure out what holds the pipe in compression in the joint?

[speedyman]

Try it without using the insert bit in the pipe.

Also i think there should be a locking band at the top of the fitting, can you prise it up with a screwdriver, then push the pipe in, then try to pull it out before turning the water on, it should be impossible to pull put. I'm not a plumber but have never had a problem using these fittings. The other thing is are the fittings the right sizes to mate togeather, imperial to metric or two different sizes 10mm - 12mm

Edited by speedyman on Wednesday 28th December 13:34

[Tampon]

speedyman said:

Try it without using the insert bit in the pipe.

Also i think there should be a locking band at the top of the fitting, can you prise it up with a screwdriver, then push the pipe in, then try to pull it out before turning the water on, it should be impossible to pull put. I'm not a plumber but have never had a problem using these fittings. The other thing is are the fittings the right sizes to mate togeather, imperial to metric or two different sizes 10mm - 12mm

Edited by speedyman on Wednesday 28th December 13:34

Thanks, they are all the same make and 15mm.

I will try the collar.

[DuraAce]

Are you getting the correct insertion depth?
Inserting it unlocked then locking it correctly?

You shouldn't be able to pull it off once fitted. Should be impossible to do that.

[Sheepshanks]

I've only ever used Hep2o but I think on Speedfit you're supposed to push that collar in to release the pipe - it's hard to tell on the video but on yours it look like it's stuck in.

I know you said you're pushing the pipe in as hard as possible, but I always compare the pipe to the outside of the fitting and put a pencil mark on the pipe to make sure it's in to its full depth.

[Turn7]

We use JG fittings at work all the time. We push fit directly onto plain pipe. I think that insert is causing the issue.

Try removing the insert and pushing the JG directly onto the pipework.

[Spudler]

Turn7 said:

We use JG fittings at work all the time. We push fit directly onto plain pipe. I think that insert is causing the issue.

Try removing the insert and pushing the JG directly onto the pipework.

Agree with this.
Interesting about not using inserts.

[2lefthands]

Probably shagged the teeth trying a few times. Collar releases the teeth that grip the pipe. When you pulled it tight in video, you were pulling against collar and pipe. Replace flexi, or use a compression.

I'll go away now, muttering something about DIYers, backflow prevention devices, building regulations, isolation for future maintenance and getting a professional to do work...

[viscountdallara]

The reason that the union is failing is that you are holding your thumb against the John Guest release mechanism, whilst " half pulling it out".
When using any poly pipe, use the correct insert( which you have), and whilst inserting the pipe into the fitting, listen for two 'clicks'.
Don't put your hand or fingers near the release collar unless you want to demount the fitting from the pipe.
Once you have inserted the pipe into the fitting, give a short pull, holding away from the collar, and the collar will show about 2mm away from the fitting itself.
In your video, your thumb is on the collar as you pull the pipe away.
This is why the union failed.

[Tampon]

Thanks for the advise.

I have tried it without the insert and it is a loose as fat pat lady bag, no go.

Also the collar I thought might be movable and people suggested I was holding in does not move at all. I have tried to see if it moves but it is moulded into the main body. Seems the white fitting online have that collar similar to the connecting pieces I have used but this is one piece?

Video of the collar and results of trying to get it "released"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSqByel8fuc

So do I have a special non moving collar (it was always like this when I got it, I checked out and played with all the fitting to see how they worked with youtube vids before starting, all the other pieces are twist and lock joints with movable collars.

Have I fked it some how?

New piece or different piece?

Edited by Tampon on Wednesday 28th December 15:42

[brman]

that doesn't look like speedfit. On speedfit the end collar is easy to move and has slots down inside plus metal barbs. If you get the plastic pipe past the barbs then there is no way it is coming out again without either depressing the collar or using so much force the fitting and pipe are both damaged. I know, I have tried with a speedfit fitting that jammed on........

This shows what a proper speedfit fitting looks like: http://sxonline.co.uk/ekmps/shops/sxheating/images...

My vote is for a new fitting.

[Spudler]

Are you 100% sure it's going fully in as Durace has suggested?
When it feels like it's there then push a bit harder and it'll go fully home.

[roofer]

Spudler said:

Turn7 said:

We use JG fittings at work all the time. We push fit directly onto plain pipe. I think that insert is causing the issue.

Try removing the insert and pushing the JG directly onto the pipework.

Agree with this.
Interesting about not using inserts.

Agreed, it's the insert letting go.

[brman]

roofer said:

Agreed, it's the insert letting go.

disagree. The insert cannot let go, it is not supposed to be holding on to anything!
All the grip is between the pipe and the barbs in the fitting, all the insert does it add some rigidity to the pipe and an extra o-ring just in case.

[Tampon]

It is definately John Guest Speedfit, stamped on the piece, bought at the same time as the other pieces from Travis Perkins

Tried without the insert, tries to grip when pulling back but it is smooth but can be pulled out.

You can see on the vid how far I am pushing it in without the insert.

I am 6ft 5in, 18 stone second row rugby player, upholsterer by trade so have good hand strength and I have given myself blood blisters on my hands pushing as hard as I possibly can trying it get it to set. I can't see how it could be pushed in any harder without a tool, unless there is some technique rather than a straight push into the piece that I am doing. The other twist lock fittings went in with half the amount of effort. You could hear the first click then second when pushing a touch harder.

I can't see any teeth in the piece nor feel them if I put my little finger down there, just the smooth collar and rubber O ring. Top collar will not move at all, prying, plumbers grips, leather man, screwdriver, car panel pullers, nothing makes it even look like it might even think about being anything other than one piece moulded.

[Tampon]

brman said:

disagree. The insert cannot let go, it is not supposed to be holding on to anything!
All the grip is between the pipe and the barbs in the fitting, all the insert does it add some rigidity to the pipe and an extra o-ring just in case.

There are no barbs in this fitting at all, unless they are hidden some where and spring out when you do something Indiana Jones like when fitting.

[Tampon]

So after all the advise and the professional Lefthands muttering about "DIYers", I figured out the issue.

Seems the piece was supplied without the sliding collar with the barbs that grip the pipe.

Here is a vid of it sorted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfjGshKidvI

There were no barbs or anything to grip the pipe when it is in the fitting. I couldn't figure it out until I had another look at some spare elbow fittings. The moveable collar had the barbs that grip the pipe in the movable collar. I thought as it was getting dark and I was pissed off as I hate not fixing stuff myself, I levered the collar out of the elbow joint and popped it in the grey fitting, pushed it in, pulled back on it, hey presto it works and I can now hook the washing machine up.

Just in time to install the dishwasher for a large dinner party on new years.

Thanks for all the advise, now I can add to the collective knowledge, 1) check the collar is in the fitting, 2) Collars can be levered out and put in other fittings.

[brman]

Tampon said:

There are no barbs in this fitting at all, unless they are hidden some where and spring out when you do something Indiana Jones like when fitting.

If you don't risk taking the skin off your finger if you poke it in there then it isn't like any speedfit I have used. Very odd if it actually says speedfit on it. Did it come from a reputable supplier because the picture on the screwfix website (and elsewhere on the web) shows something different to what you have....
http://www.screwfix.com/p/jg-speedfit-push-fit-fle...

[brman]

Tampon said:

So after all the advise and the professional Lefthands muttering about "DIYers", I figured out the issue.

Seems the piece was supplied without the sliding collar with the barbs that grip the pipe.

Here is a vid of it sorted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfjGshKidvI

There were no barbs or anything to grip the pipe when it is in the fitting. I couldn't figure it out until I had another look at some spare elbow fittings. The moveable collar had the barbs that grip the pipe in the movable collar. I thought as it was getting dark and I was pissed off as I hate not fixing stuff myself, I levered the collar out of the elbow joint and popped it in the grey fitting, pushed it in, pulled back on it, hey presto it works and I can now hook the washing machine up.

Just in time to install the dishwasher for a large dinner party on new years.

Thanks for all the advise, now I can add to the collective knowledge, 1) check the collar is in the fitting, 2) Collars can be levered out and put in other fittings.

ah, that would explain it

[Tampon]

brman said:

that doesn't look like speedfit. On speedfit the end collar is easy to move and has slots down inside plus metal barbs. If you get the plastic pipe past the barbs then there is no way it is coming out again without either depressing the collar or using so much force the fitting and pipe are both damaged. I know, I have tried with a speedfit fitting that jammed on........

This shows what a proper speedfit fitting looks like: http://sxonline.co.uk/ekmps/shops/sxheating/images...

My vote is for a new fitting.

Cheers brman, it was your post that made me have a sit down and have a comparison of the joints I had.

I had presumed because this was a push fit it would be different to the twist lock Speedfit.

You spotted what the forum expert/preacher 2lefthands completely missed, that the collar wasn't there at all.

Thank you very much for taking the time to offer your advise.