Private Land: Can I do what I please?

Private Land: Can I do what I please?

Author
Discussion

ashleyman

Original Poster:

6,962 posts

98 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
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If I'm on private land can I do whatever I like so long as I have the owners permission/am the owner?

I was watching an episode of Traffic Cops earlier and there was this kid ripping donuts in a Burger King car park. Surely that constitutes as private land and isn't subject to road laws so when they saw what he was doing and was issued a section 59 is that allowed even though it's on private land? Would the same happen if he owned the land he was driving on?

Also thinking: If I own land and wanted to do something not legal on a public highway - say Drink Drive for instance - would there be a chance I'd get prosecuted for that? Drink drive is an extreme example but you get what I'm asking right? Kinda like if I owned an airfield and wanted to test the top speed of my car out. I'm not subject to any speed limits on that road and the Police/Law can't do anything about my behaviour.

I understand this sounds REALLY council but I'm just wondering wether being on private land is an excuse for being able to do what you want.


rainmakerraw

1,222 posts

125 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
A Burger King car park isn't 'private land' for the purposes of the Road Traffic Act. It's a place to which the public have access, i.e. road traffic laws apply. If you owned the land and it wasn't open to the general public (for example a burger bar car park) then you can do much more of what you like without being issued s59 warnings for driving like a nob.

ChemicalChaos

10,360 posts

159 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
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As the first reply says, the key is whether it is publically accessible private land or not - that doesnt mean whether someone can physically drive onto it, that means whether they are allowed/invited to. So a retail carpark falls into the latter category.
Whilst DD on private land isnt technically illegal (I think), IIRC there was a court case where a kid was injured/died due to it and the family sought a private prosecution for manslaughter - so actions still have consequences

carmadgaz

3,201 posts

182 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
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If I remember correctly. A place like a BK car park is "public" in that the public have access to it and therefore driving laws are enforceable.

On properly "private" property you can go nuts (though neighbour complaints about noise may still be valid wink ).


sebhaque

6,402 posts

180 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Slight thread hijack/continuation - apologies OP.

I think it's a given that a Tesco car park isn't "private" land in the eyes of the driving laws, even if Tesco own the land, because it's somewhere that the public will access. Therefore if someone was to drink a bit too much and then park in Tesco and claim private land, they'd get thrown in the nick. Fair enough.

How does it work with driveways? If we assume one driveway is your average one, open to the public, and one has a gate on it - if someone was to go and sit in their car after a bottle of wine, would they still be arrested for drink driving? I'd have thought the open driveway may warrant a stroll to the car and a knock on the window, but a gated driveway might make things a bit more complicated.

Only asking out of curiosity. For arse-covering sakes, my car keys are safely stored away as I've had a few pints tonight. Furthermore I'm nursing a nasty injury to my ankle so I can't drive until February nonetheless smile

ashleyman

Original Poster:

6,962 posts

98 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
sebhaque said:
Slight thread hijack/continuation - apologies OP.

I think it's a given that a Tesco car park isn't "private" land in the eyes of the driving laws, even if Tesco own the land, because it's somewhere that the public will access. Therefore if someone was to drink a bit too much and then park in Tesco and claim private land, they'd get thrown in the nick. Fair enough.

How does it work with driveways? If we assume one driveway is your average one, open to the public, and one has a gate on it - if someone was to go and sit in their car after a bottle of wine, would they still be arrested for drink driving? I'd have thought the open driveway may warrant a stroll to the car and a knock on the window, but a gated driveway might make things a bit more complicated.

Only asking out of curiosity. For arse-covering sakes, my car keys are safely stored away as I've had a few pints tonight. Furthermore I'm nursing a nasty injury to my ankle so I can't drive until February nonetheless smile
This also crossed my mind after that thread about the lad sat in the car after a few drinks. Interested to hear responses on this too.

I'm also thinking if I owned an establishment that did welcome the public. Say somewhere like a shop with a car park but it had gates that could be closed. If I shut the gates and put up a sign saying 'No Entry' one Sunday, could I technically do what I like as I've refused access to any uninvited person?

Edited by ashleyman on Wednesday 18th January 00:28

rainmakerraw

1,222 posts

125 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
You can be drunk in charge of a vehicle without actually driving it. Also, again, your driveway isn't open to the public even without a gate, as the public aren't invited to use it, for example while shopping at your house(!).

Pothole

34,367 posts

281 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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Ask the lotto lout

Slow

6,973 posts

136 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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They can do fk all if its private land and not public access. We had a big stag do in the field my Mum owns. Everyone is completely fked and driving round in the dark, think there was only 2 crashes which were minor bumps.

Except for the car bought for peanuts to wreck that night. Will try find the pictures on my phone. Car eventually died after it met a tree.

God I make it sound like a redneck affair haha.


carmadgaz

3,201 posts

182 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Slow said:
They can do fk all if its private land and not public access. We had a big stag do in the field my Mum owns. Everyone is completely fked and driving round in the dark, think there was only 2 crashes which were minor bumps.

Except for the car bought for peanuts to wreck that night. Will try find the pictures on my phone. Car eventually died after it met a tree.

God I make it sound like a redneck affair haha.
Sounds like a great night out... Aww crap I may be a redneck boxedin

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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Not sure, but I don't think you're free rape, pillage and murder on private land.

I'll have to check that one.

coppice

8,562 posts

143 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Slow said:
They can do fk all if its private land and not public access. We had a big stag do in the field my Mum owns. Everyone is completely fked and driving round in the dark, think there was only 2 crashes which were minor bumps.

Except for the car bought for peanuts to wreck that night. Will try find the pictures on my phone. Car eventually died after it met a tree.

God I make it sound like a redneck affair haha.
Not really that simple -for example you can't shoot or fish on private land without a valid licence and except for some RTA stuff , most legals apply to driving and everything else you do. So if your pissed up driving hurts someone don't think they can't get recompense.

loskie

5,144 posts

119 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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If it is registered agricultural land for which Single Farm Payment is paid you may be in breach of "good agricultural practice" by causing erosion or environmental damage. As has been found out by some farmers who have allowed local motor clubs to carry out grass tests or car trials.

velocemitch

3,795 posts

219 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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If it is on private land with no access to the public, the traffic laws do not apply. This pretty fundamental to motor sport in the UK. There are hundreds of organised events with cars being hurled around in fields, private lanes and car parks on auto Tests and classic rallies, in very much the same manner as the OP described.
The principle difference is they are covered by event insurance against injury to officials or sanctioned spectators. But as far as the police are concerned it's non of their business unless they are the subject of some sort of complaint from the public, on noise grounds for instance.

The moral I guess is, don't go to mac Donald's join you local motor club.

Dannbodge

2,160 posts

120 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Slow said:
They can do fk all if its private land and not public access. We had a big stag do in the field my Mum owns. Everyone is completely fked and driving round in the dark, think there was only 2 crashes which were minor bumps.

Except for the car bought for peanuts to wreck that night. Will try find the pictures on my phone. Car eventually died after it met a tree.

God I make it sound like a redneck affair haha.
We did the same for a Stag, only difference was we were jumping a Suzuki Vitara over bike ramps and crashing it into trees.
Also had a 3 piece suit and a massive CRT Tv from eBay

Vanin

1,010 posts

165 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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I am a farmer and my understanding is that if my trackways on the farm are not gated to the public roads then to all intents and purposes they are under the same rules as a public highway apart from it being unnecessary to have the vehicle taxed.
Therefore it must be MOTd, no drink driving and insured.

Even with gates there are still laws as previous posters have mentioned which must be obeyed

On top of this are the various environmental schemes which all have many rules. For instance the field margins are not to be driven on by a gamekeeper for instance doing his rounds. Huge penalties pf tens of thousands of pounds are involved without trial.

On top of this there are cases which really worry land owners such as kids falling out of a tree where there may be a rotten branch. Even though the kid was not allowed to be there the land owner could be liable for not having the tree in a safe condition.

I could spend all day and every day of the week inspecting all our hundreds of trees and still miss the occasional rotten branch.

This also opens a can of worms for ordinary householders.

If you have had a few drinks and decide to put the car away last thing at night in your private driveway (ungated) and happen to reverse over a child who was playing cowboys and Indians in the bushes I think that you would be in more trouble than if the drive was gated and the gate was shut.

The main thing to realise is that just owning a house and land in England does not mean that you have the right to do anything

In fact the amount of rules and regulations which apply to us here is so great that I think I would have more freedom being a tenant

The house is Grade 2 listed which means it is impossible even to change the glass in the windows without the permission of a glazing officer from the council and as a landlord there are now so many rules that I sometimes feel it would be more economic just to pull all the cottages down. (I would move the tenants out first!)

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
sebhaque said:
How does it work with driveways? If we assume one driveway is your average one, open to the public, and one has a gate on it - if someone was to go and sit in their car after a bottle of wine, would they still be arrested for drink driving? I'd have thought the open driveway may warrant a stroll to the car and a knock on the window, but a gated driveway might make things a bit more complicated.
An 'average' driveway is private for the purposes of the RTA - makes no difference whether it's gated or not.


SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vanin said:
If you have had a few drinks and decide to put the car away last thing at night in your private driveway (ungated) and happen to reverse over a child who was playing cowboys and Indians in the bushes I think that you would be in more trouble than if the drive was gated and the gate was shut.
As above, the absence of a physical barrier doesn't alter the fact that a normal driveway leading to your house / garage is not a 'public place' for the purposes of the RTA.

S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
rainmakerraw said:
A Burger King car park isn't 'private land' for the purposes of the Road Traffic Act. It's a place to which the public have access, i.e. road traffic laws apply. If you owned the land and it wasn't open to the general public (for example a burger bar car park) then you can do much more of what you like without being issued s59 warnings for driving like a nob.
I recall doing a licence check on a rental customer a few years ago now, and he had an expired "IN14" code - 6 points and few hundred quid fine. I've seen plenty of IN10 - driving with no insurance, so this was a new one on me.

The story behind it is that he was teaching his 16 year old daughter to drive on a supermarket carpark, again thinking it was private land. The IN14 is for "permitting or causing" another person to commit the offence.
I recall that the daughter had some sort of endorsement even though she didn't even have a licence at the time - I think DVLA set up a record in advance with the details.


SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
S11Steve said:
The story behind it is that he was teaching his 16 year old daughter to drive on a supermarket carpark, again thinking it was private land. The IN14 is for "permitting or causing" another person to commit the offence.
I mentioned this to a mate the other day - he had no idea of the bother both he and his 16 year old daughter could be in if they were nabbed during one of their Sunday afternoon driving lessons in the B&Q car park.