Plumbers - just WTF is wrong with them?
Discussion
Im a commercial gas engineer/plumber... Commercial as in we only do supermarkets,banks, your favourite car buying crap shop (rhymes with walfords)
The reason I have only ever done commercial is the expectations of home owners is ridiculous, some bloke moaning in this thread that a plumber wouldn't come and tighten his tap for 'slipping in £20' whata joke... I will never deal with whiney types.
The reason I have only ever done commercial is the expectations of home owners is ridiculous, some bloke moaning in this thread that a plumber wouldn't come and tighten his tap for 'slipping in £20' whata joke... I will never deal with whiney types.
I sympathise.
There are some 'good' tradesmen out there but they appear to be few and far between.
What's lacking here is just basic common decency (IMHO) and market forces (lots of work and not enough relevant/qualified trades people).
- If you say you will call or attend.. you call or attend. If you can't, you let the customer know ASAP.
- If you cannot agree on price/work, you just state that and go your separate ways.
- Give a price breakdown (parts and labour) so the customer is aware and there is less potential for future arguments. Then stick to the quote unless there is a material change to the work being undertaken.
I've had plenty of plumbers, electricians and builders waste my time by either not coming when they say they will, coming and not getting back to me or generally behaving like a-holes. In addition, plenty have been just plain greedy. I don't mind paying fair/going rates (or even extra if required) but I won't have the wool pulled over my eyes. It's for this reason I now operate on a 'labour only' basis - i.e. the tradesman gets his labour and I pay for all the 'bits' according to the spec. I want/amount needed.
I also sympathise with the poster who just wanted a 5 min job done. I know every trade has it's hourly rate or call out, but if the chap is down the road from you, sometimes doing a little job on the cheap builds a lot of good will, future work and customer referrals.
I've encountered the same with other trades (e.g. mechanics), so much so that I do the vast majority of my own stuff now.
At the end of the day, they are free to behave as badly as they like as times are currently good, but what they don't often realise is that by being this way, they have lost out on literally tens of thousands of pounds of work and referrals from me.
One poster on this thread mentioned the origin of the trades people he deals with. I've certainly had more problems with British ones than with others.
What can the average customer do? Attain at least a basic level of knowledge/understanding of what it is you want done, get recommendations, get everything in writing, don't give cash up front but stage by stage.
What can traders do? Individually, uphold standards of workmanship/be fair and/or join an institute which helps to do so. Understand that you will get customers who are annoying or picky but just be reasonable, transparent and upfront.
There are some 'good' tradesmen out there but they appear to be few and far between.
What's lacking here is just basic common decency (IMHO) and market forces (lots of work and not enough relevant/qualified trades people).
- If you say you will call or attend.. you call or attend. If you can't, you let the customer know ASAP.
- If you cannot agree on price/work, you just state that and go your separate ways.
- Give a price breakdown (parts and labour) so the customer is aware and there is less potential for future arguments. Then stick to the quote unless there is a material change to the work being undertaken.
I've had plenty of plumbers, electricians and builders waste my time by either not coming when they say they will, coming and not getting back to me or generally behaving like a-holes. In addition, plenty have been just plain greedy. I don't mind paying fair/going rates (or even extra if required) but I won't have the wool pulled over my eyes. It's for this reason I now operate on a 'labour only' basis - i.e. the tradesman gets his labour and I pay for all the 'bits' according to the spec. I want/amount needed.
I also sympathise with the poster who just wanted a 5 min job done. I know every trade has it's hourly rate or call out, but if the chap is down the road from you, sometimes doing a little job on the cheap builds a lot of good will, future work and customer referrals.
I've encountered the same with other trades (e.g. mechanics), so much so that I do the vast majority of my own stuff now.
At the end of the day, they are free to behave as badly as they like as times are currently good, but what they don't often realise is that by being this way, they have lost out on literally tens of thousands of pounds of work and referrals from me.
One poster on this thread mentioned the origin of the trades people he deals with. I've certainly had more problems with British ones than with others.
What can the average customer do? Attain at least a basic level of knowledge/understanding of what it is you want done, get recommendations, get everything in writing, don't give cash up front but stage by stage.
What can traders do? Individually, uphold standards of workmanship/be fair and/or join an institute which helps to do so. Understand that you will get customers who are annoying or picky but just be reasonable, transparent and upfront.
Edited by RockyBalboa on Saturday 11th February 19:53
So im doing a 10 day course on how to switch on and off some electricity. Once thats done ill need to go round with my authorising engineer and be site tested. I absolutely despise crap tradespeople, i also despise smart asses that think they are superior to trades people. Go get a degree ? only if its useful - the amount of useless degrees out there, and you have the right to look down your nose at an engineer, because they are some how dumber crapier than the powerfully built stud with the masters in what ever it is they spent 4 years incurring a sizable debt on.
The education system is geared towards getting you to university, its all about continuing the education demand, you really thing getting to your mid twenties or later with a huge debt and a piece of paper is preferable to actually doing a trade and earning money.
yes the high flyers may think so but the normal rank and file with ideas above their station will suffer. if I was at school again and had the chance to go to uni would I go ? nope. not unless I was clever enough to head to lawyer or doctor status and Im pretty astute enough to realise that is waaaaaaaaay beyond my capabilities.
As for switching electricity, mush the same as turning your living room light on and off Ill be trained on the processes and procedures required to operate and manage a private electrical distribution system that operates at 11kv and consists of a CHP system three back up 1.5 MW generators some packaged substations and an integrated power distribution system.
The education system is geared towards getting you to university, its all about continuing the education demand, you really thing getting to your mid twenties or later with a huge debt and a piece of paper is preferable to actually doing a trade and earning money.
yes the high flyers may think so but the normal rank and file with ideas above their station will suffer. if I was at school again and had the chance to go to uni would I go ? nope. not unless I was clever enough to head to lawyer or doctor status and Im pretty astute enough to realise that is waaaaaaaaay beyond my capabilities.
As for switching electricity, mush the same as turning your living room light on and off Ill be trained on the processes and procedures required to operate and manage a private electrical distribution system that operates at 11kv and consists of a CHP system three back up 1.5 MW generators some packaged substations and an integrated power distribution system.
ruggedscotty said:
As for switching electricity, mush the same as turning your living room light on and off Ill be trained on the processes and procedures required to operate and manage a private electrical distribution system that operates at 11kv and consists of a CHP system three back up 1.5 MW generators some packaged substations and an integrated power distribution system.
Wimp. A few puny MW. 3.3GW makes a few more sparks..toasty said:
I swear by check-a-trade.
Plumbers, sparkys, bathroom fitters, all have been great so far.
You shouldn't be fooled into that. We had them wanting us to sign up, they were ONLY interested in our office, paper work and policies. They were not interested at all in our engineers and their qualifications and how they carry out their work. We didn't join !Plumbers, sparkys, bathroom fitters, all have been great so far.
I guess it depends if you deal with sole traders or slightly larger companies.
And even if it's companies then you can still have the same issue.
Sadly the only way you can even have a vague idea if they are going to be any good is based on your experience or someone else's and even that isn't a reliable guide.
Been there done that.
Best to find out before you have either spent cash or have other jobs relying on someone doing something.
And even if it's companies then you can still have the same issue.
Sadly the only way you can even have a vague idea if they are going to be any good is based on your experience or someone else's and even that isn't a reliable guide.
Been there done that.
Best to find out before you have either spent cash or have other jobs relying on someone doing something.
I wanted roof trusses putting on before getting someone to tile the roof - I,m scared of heights (well, falling really, but you get the idea), but the difficulty in getting someone round to quote almost made it worth me getting up on the roof! Eventually one guy came round to view:- I showed him trusses (already council approved!) at side of bungalow, 11 Trusses first 5 are 6.5m long and others reducing. He walked around to rear where the 6m x 2.7 m rectangular extension was and asked "which way round do the trusses go" 
I was almost rendered speechless but managed to utter "I think we'll call it a day shall we?" Next guy wanted £1700 and tried to convince me it was a week's work, then called back 2 days later saying "I'll do it for £1500 cash". Next guy said I'll put it in post and it turned up a few days later £760 inc VAT, and 2 guys did it in about 12 hours over 2 days - Strangely one looked even more scared of heights than I am!
I was almost rendered speechless but managed to utter "I think we'll call it a day shall we?" Next guy wanted £1700 and tried to convince me it was a week's work, then called back 2 days later saying "I'll do it for £1500 cash". Next guy said I'll put it in post and it turned up a few days later £760 inc VAT, and 2 guys did it in about 12 hours over 2 days - Strangely one looked even more scared of heights than I am!There does seem to be something about plumbers specifically!
I've managed to find a joiner, plasterer and roofer who are all fantastic. Reliable, honest and work to a high standard. Plumbers have all been a pain one way or another.
The real worry though, is how much worse this is all going to be in 10 yrs time when most of them have retired.
If it wasn't for the faeces I would seriously consider re-training!
I've managed to find a joiner, plasterer and roofer who are all fantastic. Reliable, honest and work to a high standard. Plumbers have all been a pain one way or another.
The real worry though, is how much worse this is all going to be in 10 yrs time when most of them have retired.
If it wasn't for the faeces I would seriously consider re-training!
akadk said:
think about when you were at school
think about the knob heads in your school
what percentage of those people went on to become tradesman ?
there is your answer
Spot on. They have also spent their working life not answering to anyone. Very difficult breed to deal with.think about the knob heads in your school
what percentage of those people went on to become tradesman ?
there is your answer
I've several friends who are trades so hear both sides but the majority are complete bellends who deserve a good ressesion to turn the tables.
ex1 said:
akadk said:
think about when you were at school
think about the knob heads in your school
what percentage of those people went on to become tradesman ?
there is your answer
Spot on. They have also spent their working life not answering to anyone. Very difficult breed to deal with.think about the knob heads in your school
what percentage of those people went on to become tradesman ?
there is your answer
I've several friends who are trades so hear both sides but the majority are complete bellends who deserve a good ressesion to turn the tables.
Explain this and his reply was if i couldn't move it now he'd get someone else blah blah, rinse and repeat working with the general public.
Just glad i don't have to do it anymore.
Edit, not defending any trades not turning up tho, that's just wrong wasting people's time. As mentioned above, most are self employed and if you don't want the job say so.
Think a lot have no idea about pricing and can take a day or two before they realize they have priced wrong, so would rather just ignore it than man up and inform the client that they don't want he work.
Edited by caterhamboy on Sunday 12th February 02:14
I guess like all trades there's good and bad. I needed some plumbing work recently approx a weeks work. Two guys came round stayed for 1-2 hours looking at the work, taking notes all FOC. I never heard for either again, no quote, no call/text from them , no answer to my calls/text nothing. I don't understand why you would waste time in a busy day to survey a job and never quote. Third guy quoted within 24 hours and got the work, turned up as planned and did a cracking job
Janluke said:
I guess like all trades there's good and bad. I needed some plumbing work recently approx a weeks work. Two guys came round stayed for 1-2 hours looking at the work, taking notes all FOC. I never heard for either again, no quote, no call/text from them , no answer to my calls/text nothing. I don't understand why you would waste time in a busy day to survey a job and never quote. Third guy quoted within 24 hours and got the work, turned up as planned and did a cracking job
Prob got a good client that wants work, or don't know how to price it so jusy give up. Sometimes could be you gave off the wrong vibes. All said i'm a tradesman and a client and normally only a matter of time before you fall out with them.From the other point of view:-
I had an email asking if I could make a bespoke infill fence panel about 3m long so I replied saying I would need to measure up and discuss designs.
When would be a good time to call in?
She replied with," I'm out all day Saturday and Sunday morning but free Sunday afternoon (after lunch) or anytime during the week after 4pm."
I replied (on Friday) that I would be passing her house twice on Sunday morning, but as she would be out I would call at 4pm on Monday.
She replied "See you Monday."
Lunchtime on the Monday I get another email telling me that she would not be home till gone 4.30 so I could call after then.
This was back in early Jan so I replied with; "As it will be almost dark I will not be able to measure up, and I hoped that she would be able to find a
tradesman who fitted in with her busy lifestyle."
No doubt she called me unsavoury names but in my experience these jobs go from bad to worse.
On another tack, lots of jobs are not rocket science and can be tackled by anyone with a little common sense.
Three months back my shower stopped working. Went to Homebase and bought exactly the same model and unscrewed the old one from the wall
and on with the new. No changes needed to the pipes or the wires and cost me a mere £90 Job done.
Last week I fitted my new tumble dryer. A hole through the 9" wall and make good with a bit of mortar. An added socket to the kitchen ring main
and another job done for about £20.
Both of those jobs took less effort than finding a "tradesman" to do it for me, and not only saved money, but time as well.
Paul G
I had an email asking if I could make a bespoke infill fence panel about 3m long so I replied saying I would need to measure up and discuss designs.
When would be a good time to call in?
She replied with," I'm out all day Saturday and Sunday morning but free Sunday afternoon (after lunch) or anytime during the week after 4pm."
I replied (on Friday) that I would be passing her house twice on Sunday morning, but as she would be out I would call at 4pm on Monday.
She replied "See you Monday."
Lunchtime on the Monday I get another email telling me that she would not be home till gone 4.30 so I could call after then.
This was back in early Jan so I replied with; "As it will be almost dark I will not be able to measure up, and I hoped that she would be able to find a
tradesman who fitted in with her busy lifestyle."
No doubt she called me unsavoury names but in my experience these jobs go from bad to worse.
On another tack, lots of jobs are not rocket science and can be tackled by anyone with a little common sense.
Three months back my shower stopped working. Went to Homebase and bought exactly the same model and unscrewed the old one from the wall
and on with the new. No changes needed to the pipes or the wires and cost me a mere £90 Job done.
Last week I fitted my new tumble dryer. A hole through the 9" wall and make good with a bit of mortar. An added socket to the kitchen ring main
and another job done for about £20.
Both of those jobs took less effort than finding a "tradesman" to do it for me, and not only saved money, but time as well.
Paul G
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