Plumbers - just WTF is wrong with them?
Discussion
To be fair to plumbers it's the same for most trades. It's rarely a reflection of the quality of their work, but often can be a reflection of customer!
Many self employed tradesmen over commit, easily done in a good market. Take on too much then are left wondering who to let down. It's easier in their minds not to communicate than try & resolve the issue with the customer directly. After all better to book out 130%, as 20% will not materialize anyhow & you p
s off the other 10%.
The other issue from what I see is level of organization, being good on the tools, does not mean you are good organizing. A fair number are utterly disorganized, so they are not consciously letting you down it just happens.
I've mentioned before on here a guy I have working at my house. He knows what he is doing, good quality, but couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery. I tried to get him focused by withholding payments, he is so disorganized, he doesn't even realize I'm withholding money so that approach failed!!
Many self employed tradesmen over commit, easily done in a good market. Take on too much then are left wondering who to let down. It's easier in their minds not to communicate than try & resolve the issue with the customer directly. After all better to book out 130%, as 20% will not materialize anyhow & you p
s off the other 10%. The other issue from what I see is level of organization, being good on the tools, does not mean you are good organizing. A fair number are utterly disorganized, so they are not consciously letting you down it just happens.
I've mentioned before on here a guy I have working at my house. He knows what he is doing, good quality, but couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery. I tried to get him focused by withholding payments, he is so disorganized, he doesn't even realize I'm withholding money so that approach failed!!
caterhamboy said:
Janluke said:
I guess like all trades there's good and bad. I needed some plumbing work recently approx a weeks work. Two guys came round stayed for 1-2 hours looking at the work, taking notes all FOC. I never heard for either again, no quote, no call/text from them , no answer to my calls/text nothing. I don't understand why you would waste time in a busy day to survey a job and never quote. Third guy quoted within 24 hours and got the work, turned up as planned and did a cracking job
Prob got a good client that wants work, or don't know how to price it so jusy give up. Sometimes could be you gave off the wrong vibes. All said i'm a tradesman and a client and normally only a matter of time before you fall out with them.I'm fortunate to have managed to get a good and reliable plumber. Often if it's non urgent I have to wait because he's always stacked out. He also plasters and does building work so handy to know.
In December he came to do our much needed new boiler, this involved moving it to an old tank cupboard upstairs. Upon starting the job it quickly became apparent that the bath needed to come out to get to the pipework, which means tiles needed to come off etc and the job (at our request) turned into a new bathroom too. At this point he's now cancelling/ moving other work as his 2 days has turned into 8 or so. Even chucking in a Sunday to catch up.
So, I suspect there's a pissed off customer or two around me who got their work postponed and that goes some way to explaining the thread.
Also agree with another poster who said being goof on tools doesn't mean they are organised. Mine produces excellent quality work, but it took him until last week, 10 weeks after he started to come and put the last 4 tiles on and finally leave his bill.
During this time, he was kept in tea, biscuits, lunch, and I even drove him home one night as he had a attack of vertigo and couldn't drive. I picked him up 2 days later after he recovered.
I think the above makes the difference in his attitude when I need him. That and I pay, on time, every time and never quibble the bill. For smaller cash jobs there's always a drink in it too. Didn't do that with the latest bill as it was over £4K so paid him electronically and thought it might mess with his books.
In December he came to do our much needed new boiler, this involved moving it to an old tank cupboard upstairs. Upon starting the job it quickly became apparent that the bath needed to come out to get to the pipework, which means tiles needed to come off etc and the job (at our request) turned into a new bathroom too. At this point he's now cancelling/ moving other work as his 2 days has turned into 8 or so. Even chucking in a Sunday to catch up.
So, I suspect there's a pissed off customer or two around me who got their work postponed and that goes some way to explaining the thread.
Also agree with another poster who said being goof on tools doesn't mean they are organised. Mine produces excellent quality work, but it took him until last week, 10 weeks after he started to come and put the last 4 tiles on and finally leave his bill.
During this time, he was kept in tea, biscuits, lunch, and I even drove him home one night as he had a attack of vertigo and couldn't drive. I picked him up 2 days later after he recovered.
I think the above makes the difference in his attitude when I need him. That and I pay, on time, every time and never quibble the bill. For smaller cash jobs there's always a drink in it too. Didn't do that with the latest bill as it was over £4K so paid him electronically and thought it might mess with his books.
You only have to look at (for example) the 'ukplumbers' forum or 'diynot' to reveal how many 'in the trade' view their customers (or 'custards' as they are affectionately known).
Their definition of a 'difficult' customer is one who is sufficiently knowledgeable to know when they're being bullstted.
Their definition of a 'difficult' customer is one who is sufficiently knowledgeable to know when they're being bulls
tted.280E said:
You only have to look at (for example) the 'ukplumbers' forum or 'diynot' to reveal how many 'in the trade' view their customers (or 'custards' as they are affectionately known).
Their definition of a 'difficult' customer is one who is sufficiently knowledgeable to know when they're being bullstted.
Unfortunately because of Gas Safe which is an in-house protection ring for plumbers or 'engineers' as they like to call themselves, you now cannot do any work like this yourself even though you can do a better job than them. If you report a fitter to Gas Safe their standard response is 'oh get them back to rectify' yeah right, or 'we will observe them on their next three jobs' oh thanks so where does that leave the client then? Total con. They are beyond any reproach and know it so that is why they get away with treating customers so badly. Their definition of a 'difficult' customer is one who is sufficiently knowledgeable to know when they're being bulls
tted.The law should be changed so those who leave dangerous installations should automatically be personally liable and not able to hide behind their weasly liquidation of Limited Company like they normally do.
I had a plumber fit a shower cubicle and didn't silicone seal it. I sent him a video of it pissing water everywhere. He insisted he had silicone sealed it 'in a minimalist style' and because he hadn't witnessed the leak in person only a video he accepted no responsibility. He then started texting me demanding I apologize for criticizing his work. He's got a fancy Facebook page and website thinks he's the dog's b
ks and can't even silicone a shower cubicle. tt.
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
I'd love to name and shame this guy, but it's against the rules, so, anyway....
Some years back I was preparing a house for sale, and one job was tightening a bath tap. I took the side off, and considering I had maybe three inches space around the nut I hadn't got the correct tool for the job.
No bother I thought, there was a plumber whose van lived a matter of 50 metres from my house. I got his number, called and explained what was needed. I said no need to call out especially, just one day when he leaves for work or returns, pop in for five minutes, and I'll slip him £20. His response was simply 'my call out charge is £80'. My reply was something along the lines of 'you want £80 for two minutes work when you live a matter of doors away from me?!' He replied 'take it or leave it'
You can imagine my reply. Found another local guy who was happy to pop in when passing, who gladly took £20 off me for two minutes work, scarcely any effort.
Name and shame for what exactly? Not doing your poxy job for the poxy 20 quid you wanted to pay him?Some years back I was preparing a house for sale, and one job was tightening a bath tap. I took the side off, and considering I had maybe three inches space around the nut I hadn't got the correct tool for the job.
No bother I thought, there was a plumber whose van lived a matter of 50 metres from my house. I got his number, called and explained what was needed. I said no need to call out especially, just one day when he leaves for work or returns, pop in for five minutes, and I'll slip him £20. His response was simply 'my call out charge is £80'. My reply was something along the lines of 'you want £80 for two minutes work when you live a matter of doors away from me?!' He replied 'take it or leave it'
You can imagine my reply. Found another local guy who was happy to pop in when passing, who gladly took £20 off me for two minutes work, scarcely any effort.
Why didn't you buy the tool and do it yourself?
There's nothing worse than someone calling you either telling you how long the job will take or even worse telling you what they are willing to pay. I don't care if I live 50 yards or 50 miles away don't tell me what you're going to pay me if there's nothing in it do it yourself.
Spudler said:
Yep.
Good few of them on here by the sound of it, especially the dick offering £20 for a job
So what do you deem two minutes work on your way home to be worth? That's £600 an hour. Two or three turns of a spanner. Funny how another plumber came out the same day on route to somewhere else and was happy to do the 'job' and take £20 for the trouble. But maybe he was a dick hey? Would you pay someone £80 for a few turns of a spanner? Good few of them on here by the sound of it, especially the dick offering £20 for a job
Save the name calling for the playground hey, it's churlish.
There aren't enough tradespeople, so the ones that are there can charge far too much.
IMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.
I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.
IMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.
I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.
GG89 said:
Name and shame for what exactly? Not doing your poxy job for the poxy 20 quid you wanted to pay him?
Why didn't you buy the tool and do it yourself?
There's nothing worse than someone calling you either telling you how long the job will take or even worse telling you what they are willing to pay. I don't care if I live 50 yards or 50 miles away don't tell me what you're going to pay me if there's nothing in it do it yourself.
See my last post. Another plumber was happy to do it the same day, and it was possibly the easiest £20 he'd ever earned. Why didn't you buy the tool and do it yourself?
There's nothing worse than someone calling you either telling you how long the job will take or even worse telling you what they are willing to pay. I don't care if I live 50 yards or 50 miles away don't tell me what you're going to pay me if there's nothing in it do it yourself.
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
GG89 said:
Name and shame for what exactly? Not doing your poxy job for the poxy 20 quid you wanted to pay him?
Why didn't you buy the tool and do it yourself?
There's nothing worse than someone calling you either telling you how long the job will take or even worse telling you what they are willing to pay. I don't care if I live 50 yards or 50 miles away don't tell me what you're going to pay me if there's nothing in it do it yourself.
See my last post. Another plumber was happy to do it the same day, and it was possibly the easiest £20 he'd ever earned. Why didn't you buy the tool and do it yourself?
There's nothing worse than someone calling you either telling you how long the job will take or even worse telling you what they are willing to pay. I don't care if I live 50 yards or 50 miles away don't tell me what you're going to pay me if there's nothing in it do it yourself.
k off.Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
Spudler said:
Yep.
Good few of them on here by the sound of it, especially the dick offering £20 for a job
So what do you deem two minutes work on your way home to be worth? That's £600 an hour. Two or three turns of a spanner. Funny how another plumber came out the same day on route to somewhere else and was happy to do the 'job' and take £20 for the trouble. But maybe he was a dick hey? Would you pay someone £80 for a few turns of a spanner? Good few of them on here by the sound of it, especially the dick offering £20 for a job
Save the name calling for the playground hey, it's churlish.
If the other "plumber" turned up for £20 then yes, like yourself, he's a dick.
Efbe said:
There aren't enough tradespeople, so the ones that are there can charge far too much.
IMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.
I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.
A month to learn to plaster to high standard? You're full of sIMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.
I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.
t, what aspects of plastering did you learn in 1 month as there are many?I started 12 years ago and am still learning new stuff and getting better all the time - and why are you not still doing it if it was that easy? sounds like you tried it and failed..sour grapes?
Brick laying isn't unskilled either - far from it.
Dunno if it's just me, but I would have taken my £20 to Screwfix / Toolstation / plumbers merchants, and bought the right tool.
Then, check youtube and tightened it myself.
"Teach a man to fish.." and all that
Ian
Then, check youtube and tightened it myself.
"Teach a man to fish.." and all that
Ian
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
I'd love to name and shame this guy, but it's against the rules, so, anyway....
Some years back I was preparing a house for sale, and one job was tightening a bath tap. I took the side off, and considering I had maybe three inches space around the nut I hadn't got the correct tool for the job.
No bother I thought, there was a plumber whose van lived a matter of 50 metres from my house. I got his number, called and explained what was needed. I said no need to call out especially, just one day when he leaves for work or returns, pop in for five minutes, and I'll slip him £20. His response was simply 'my call out charge is £80'. My reply was something along the lines of 'you want £80 for two minutes work when you live a matter of doors away from me?!' He replied 'take it or leave it'
You can imagine my reply. Found another local guy who was happy to pop in when passing, who gladly took £20 off me for two minutes work, scarcely any effort.
Some years back I was preparing a house for sale, and one job was tightening a bath tap. I took the side off, and considering I had maybe three inches space around the nut I hadn't got the correct tool for the job.
No bother I thought, there was a plumber whose van lived a matter of 50 metres from my house. I got his number, called and explained what was needed. I said no need to call out especially, just one day when he leaves for work or returns, pop in for five minutes, and I'll slip him £20. His response was simply 'my call out charge is £80'. My reply was something along the lines of 'you want £80 for two minutes work when you live a matter of doors away from me?!' He replied 'take it or leave it'
You can imagine my reply. Found another local guy who was happy to pop in when passing, who gladly took £20 off me for two minutes work, scarcely any effort.
Spudler said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
Spudler said:
Yep.
Good few of them on here by the sound of it, especially the dick offering £20 for a job
So what do you deem two minutes work on your way home to be worth? That's £600 an hour. Two or three turns of a spanner. Funny how another plumber came out the same day on route to somewhere else and was happy to do the 'job' and take £20 for the trouble. But maybe he was a dick hey? Would you pay someone £80 for a few turns of a spanner? Good few of them on here by the sound of it, especially the dick offering £20 for a job
Save the name calling for the playground hey, it's churlish.
If the other "plumber" turned up for £20 then yes, like yourself, he's a dick.
A few weeks ago I took £20 (and I can post a picture of the cheque that still needs to be cashed if you call BS) To write a quick letter for someone in a battle with one of the big sofa sheds. I knocked up the letter whilst watching TV one evening. It was only £20 for a tiny job, not big money but it spreads good will, and as far as I'm concerned it's easy money.
Another instance, two days ago, a guy called me local to my hometown, a small scratch on the rear bench of his Golf that he was about to sell. I'd planned to have the day as a day off, but I thought why not help him out, it's £50 in my pocket which then covered the cost of my Friday night out.
I'd suggest that if you'd pay someone £80 for a few turns of a spanner then you are the dick.
Efbe said:
There aren't enough tradespeople, so the ones that are there can charge far too much.
IMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.
I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.
I'm guessing you were really a plasterer's labourer otherwise you wouldn't spout such bIMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.
I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.
ks. Had to look up that link
you realise brickies are being paid double that in the south of England?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff