Plumbers - just WTF is wrong with them?

[Vron]

GG89 said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

GG89 said:

Name and shame for what exactly? Not doing your poxy job for the poxy 20 quid you wanted to pay him?

Why didn't you buy the tool and do it yourself?

There's nothing worse than someone calling you either telling you how long the job will take or even worse telling you what they are willing to pay. I don't care if I live 50 yards or 50 miles away don't tell me what you're going to pay me if there's nothing in it do it yourself.

See my last post. Another plumber was happy to do it the same day, and it was possibly the easiest £20 he'd ever earned.

Good for him. The vast majority would tell you to fk off.

Approaching a near neighbour for a quick favour and a bit of beer money hardly the crime of the century. It says more about what sort of plumber he is. A polite sorry 'can't too busy' would have been enough. GG89 is typical of today's tradesmen attitude. Before you start I've bought sold and renovated 15 properties and built new from scratch so I've got more experience than most with all the trades. I can honestly say there is only one who I would recommend to others - the renderer. When I asked him to quote he said he couldn't call Saturday morning as he volunteered in an old people's home but would call that afternoon (and he did). I knew then he was a decent bloke and not the usual money grabbing wanting to net £50K a year and do a DIY standard job you usually get. He is booked for the year from March each year.

Some of us are old enough to remember when decent trades existed for a good wage. You only have to look at the quality of older houses - straight walls, door frames, neat brickwork joints etc. Take a look at houses built in the last 30 years and see the difference. Same as the influx of plastic plumbing pipe - for those that cannot solder and do a proper job. Everybody knows rubber will perish at some point in the future and plastic will go brittle but by then the plumber is long gone with your money not that they EVER come back to rectify anything anyway.

[DonkeyApple]

Ian Geary said:

Dunno if it's just me, but I would have taken my £20 to Screwfix / Toolstation / plumbers merchants, and bought the right tool.

Then, check youtube and tightened it myself.

"Teach a man to fish.." and all that

Ian

If it's just a basic tool and no specialist skill required then I tend to buy a used one from eBay and when finished with it, put it back on eBay. Sometimes you don't even need to pay postage and sometimes you sell it for more than you paid.

But I do find myself thinking about naming and shaming the people on EBay who didn't have a spanner to sell me. God knows what their fking problemnis.

[hairyben]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

So what do you deem two minutes work on your way home to be worth? That's £600 an hour. Two or three turns of a spanner. Funny how another plumber came out the same day on route to somewhere else and was happy to do the 'job' and take £20 for the trouble. But maybe he was a dick hey? Would you pay someone £80 for a few turns of a spanner?
Save the name calling for the playground hey, it's churlish.

It really doesnt work like that, its a gross over simplification and you're ignoring all the costs etc of running a business. A prat can turn up and charge £20. A businessman cant. I might, occasionally, but its a favour to an existing client rather than a sound business decision. And anyone ringing me wanting a £20 would be told to FRO. You really have no concept of how demeaning that is, do you?

[Spudler]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

waffle.

You're not seriously comparing your times worth to a plumbers are you?

[princeperch]

Rickyy said:

Before tarring all of us tradesmen with the same brush, please remember that some of us on this forum happily give out advice, take time to talk people through problems, send spare parts in the post FOC and even visit fellow PH'ers homes to help with issues.

I'd second that. I've been helped out by plenty of trades on here with advice and Ferg even sent me a part for my sink a few years back FOC

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Spudler said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

waffle.

You're not seriously comparing your times worth to a plumbers are you?

Right, I'm going to leave it here, name call and bh all you want. I've better things to do with my Sunday than argue with strangers on the internet.
My day rate is similar to many plumbers, BTW, and yes, as illustrated in my recent post I have done very small jobs for customers, because it builds a reputation, and is easy money.
Carry on how you were, suggesting a few turns of a spanner is worth £80.

[Fastpedeller]

hairyben said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

So what do you deem two minutes work on your way home to be worth? That's £600 an hour. Two or three turns of a spanner. Funny how another plumber came out the same day on route to somewhere else and was happy to do the 'job' and take £20 for the trouble. But maybe he was a dick hey? Would you pay someone £80 for a few turns of a spanner?
Save the name calling for the playground hey, it's churlish.

It really doesnt work like that, its a gross over simplification and you're ignoring all the costs etc of running a business. A prat can turn up and charge £20. A businessman cant. I might, occasionally, but its a favour to an existing client rather than a sound business decision. And anyone ringing me wanting a £20 would be told to FRO. You really have no concept of how demeaning that is, do you?

Absolutely agree with HB, and will help my existing customers in the same way. If I get the "you can just do it for £10" call then I explain that although it might be 5 min job it's 15 mins both ways in car which makes it a 35 min job - If I do it for £10 I'll go out of business and that will leave them at the mercy of someone who will charge £100

[ex1]

Spudler said:

Efbe said:

There aren't enough tradespeople, so the ones that are there can charge far too much.

IMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.

I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.

I'm guessing you were really a plasterer's labourer otherwise you wouldn't spout such bks.
Had to look up that link you realise brickies are being paid double that in the south of England?

Which part do you disagree with?

The part about Bricklayers being over paid bafoons or the part about plasterers being overpaid unskilled bafoons?

[Spudler]

ex1 said:

Spudler said:

Efbe said:

There aren't enough tradespeople, so the ones that are there can charge far too much.

IMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.

I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.

I'm guessing you were really a plasterer's labourer otherwise you wouldn't spout such bks.
Had to look up that link you realise brickies are being paid double that in the south of England?

Which part do you disagree with?

The part about Bricklayers being over paid bafoons or the part about plasterers being overpaid unskilled bafoons?

You just sound bitter.
Jog on poppet.

[GG89]

Vron said:

GG89 said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

GG89 said:

Name and shame for what exactly? Not doing your poxy job for the poxy 20 quid you wanted to pay him?

Why didn't you buy the tool and do it yourself?

There's nothing worse than someone calling you either telling you how long the job will take or even worse telling you what they are willing to pay. I don't care if I live 50 yards or 50 miles away don't tell me what you're going to pay me if there's nothing in it do it yourself.

See my last post. Another plumber was happy to do it the same day, and it was possibly the easiest £20 he'd ever earned.

Good for him. The vast majority would tell you to fk off.

Approaching a near neighbour for a quick favour and a bit of beer money hardly the crime of the century. It says more about what sort of plumber he is. A polite sorry 'can't too busy' would have been enough. GG89 is typical of today's tradesmen attitude. Before you start I've bought sold and renovated 15 properties and built new from scratch so I've got more experience than most with all the trades. I can honestly say there is only one who I would recommend to others - the renderer. When I asked him to quote he said he couldn't call Saturday morning as he volunteered in an old people's home but would call that afternoon (and he did). I knew then he was a decent bloke and not the usual money grabbing wanting to net £50K a year and do a DIY standard job you usually get. He is booked for the year from March each year.

Some of us are old enough to remember when decent trades existed for a good wage. You only have to look at the quality of older houses - straight walls, door frames, neat brickwork joints etc. Take a look at houses built in the last 30 years and see the difference. Same as the influx of plastic plumbing pipe - for those that cannot solder and do a proper job. Everybody knows rubber will perish at some point in the future and plastic will go brittle but by then the plumber is long gone with your money not that they EVER come back to rectify anything anyway.

Not sure what your point is?

I know a lot of very good tradesmen who are always busy, turn up when they say and do a good job, the thing they have in common is none of them are cheap. I have also seen my fair share of fly by night cowboys working for beer money. Are you implying when solid brick houses were the norm there wasn't any dodgy tradesmen about? Nothing has changed there is still very good and very bad out there. The people who have had bad experiences shout about it more, that's all.

Just to add - he wasn't really a neighbour, he was doing a house up for sale so he didn't know the plumber from Adam.

Edited by GG89 on Sunday 12th February 12:01

[Alucidnation]

I wouldn't even get out of the van for £20.

It's amazing the amount of people think every penny we earn goes straight into our back account and sits there ready for us to spend on whatever we desire.

And, as pointed out, someone who calls and offers £20 to tighten a nut as they obviously know that is all that is needed etc, does get told to 'fk off'.

If they know some much about it then they can fking do it themselves.

Muppets.

[Jonesy23]

Spudler said:

You just sound bitter.
Jog on poppet.

Pot kettle etc.

So which trade are you then? The attitude is familiar.

[technodup]

This is quite a pertinent thread for me as I'm in the process of launching a service which 'might' go some way to resolve (in a small way) some of these issues.

Trades by and large are diabolical at planning, communication, organisation, marketing, bookkeeping and much more, even if they are the best in the market for what they actually do.

The ones thinking they can get away with murder yet earn fortunes will come unstuck when the st hits the fan again (as it will). THAT is when the business skills are needed. But if I know trades they'll then blame the economy, government, immigrants, basically anyone but themselves.

Having said that any trade going a job for £20 is only doing it as a favour, not a job. A fully paid job has as much opportunity for referrals and future work as a £20 freebie. Although given approximately 0% of trades have any process in place to generate quality referrals it's a bit of a moot point.

It frustrates fk out of me tbh, give me an hour with an open minded tradesman and I could show him how to make a fortune with minimal extra effort. Although my hour will be considerably more expensive than his.

[Alucidnation]

technodup said:

Although my hour will be considerably more expensive than his.

I bet they will be knocking your door down.

[GG89]

ex1 said:

Spudler said:

Efbe said:

There aren't enough tradespeople, so the ones that are there can charge far too much.

IMO it's part of the problem that led to the recession and our housing issues.
In what world a brick layer can be paid so much for such an easy and unskilled job is beyond me: http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Bricklayer...
The same goes for the other trades.

I used to be a plasterer. It took about a month to get up to the general level of competance of plasterers out there. Yet I was told to be quoting £150 day rate labour straight out of the blocks.
a 30,000 job (200 work days) for such a job is really crazy. I won't even get into how much tax is actually paid.

I'm guessing you were really a plasterer's labourer otherwise you wouldn't spout such bks.
Had to look up that link you realise brickies are being paid double that in the south of England?

Which part do you disagree with?

The part about Bricklayers being over paid bafoons or the part about plasterers being overpaid unskilled bafoons?

Let me guess, you're a suit wearing pen pusher who has never done a days graft in your life but think you know how much people should be earning outwith your boring profession.

[Spudler]

Jonesy23 said:

Spudler said:

You just sound bitter.
Jog on poppet.

Pot kettle etc.

So which trade are you then? The attitude is familiar.

Builder/developer and still on the trowel after 30+ years.

Very rarely deal with domestic customers.
Apart from my own projects we deal with LA looking after their buildings (mostly historic) and the insurance industry, where I charge out my guys out quite hansomly thanks

[GG89]

Alucidnation said:

technodup said:

Although my hour will be considerably more expensive than his.

I bet they will be knocking your door down.

[ex1]

Spudler said:

Builder/developer and still on the trowel after 30+ years.
(mostly historic)

Why didn't you say earlier, this has elevated your skill level to that of a 5 year old rather than just a toddler.

Laying bricks is perhaps the least skillful of all "trades" and something you can become proficient at in a matter of weeks. The vast majority are one step up from a neanderthal. I dont doubt its hard work but its not worth the pay they receive.

[Spudler]

ex1 said:

Spudler said:

Builder/developer and still on the trowel after 30+ years.
(mostly historic)

Why didn't you say earlier, this has elevated your skill level to that of a 5 year old rather than just a toddler.

Laying bricks is perhaps the least skillful of all "trades" and something you can become proficient at in a matter of weeks. The vast majority are one step up from a neanderthal. I dont doubt its hard work but its not worth the pay they receive.

Hmmm not making yourself look very intelligent are you.

Fair point on the neanderthal front, my wife thinks my beard make me look something along those lines, I disagree though.

Still, I'm far from a poor neanderthal so I'd say my business has done me well.



ETA: I'm still on the trowel after all these years because I enjoy it, not day in day out but a fair bit

Edited by Spudler on Sunday 12th February 13:22

[GG89]

ex1 said:

Spudler said:

Builder/developer and still on the trowel after 30+ years.
(mostly historic)

Why didn't you say earlier, this has elevated your skill level to that of a 5 year old rather than just a toddler.

Laying bricks is perhaps the least skillful of all "trades" and something you can become proficient at in a matter of weeks. The vast majority are one step up from a neanderthal. I dont doubt its hard work but its not worth the pay they receive.

OK you're a troll.