floating chipboard floor issues
Discussion
We live in a 2010 new build house. Although we are the first owners we didnt purchase until 2011.In that time the house had at least one water leak downstairs. The floor panels throughout the house creak and particularily downstairs, have a lovely bouncy feel in places, where i think they have swelled due to the leak(s).
We made a decision to rip the carpets up and have laminate flooring put down, but we need to sort the floor panels out. Before knowing it was a floating floor, we got a joiner in to replace any faulty areas and try to screw the panels down to see if that stoped the bounce and creaking. Try it for a month and then if happy put the laminate down.
The joiner arrived on Monday, made a test cut and couldnt locate any beams to screw into. Then he realised it was a floating chipboard floor and probably not as simple to rectify as first envisaged. The chipboard is placed directly on top of the thermal insulation bricks and glued together.
We are looking to lay laminate flooring in 3 maybe 4 rooms and these measure just under 50m2.
How easy it is to rip certain areas of the floating chipboard up and re-fit with fresh chipboard? Also, as this is the ground floor, will the internal walls be solid construction so the floor will go upto the walls, or could some be a framed wall? If framed, is the frame built on top of the floor?
Or do we bite the bullet and rip it all up and start again? This will be a major upheavel and we have a 5yr old and a dog to consider. Doing 'all of it' would also include the kitchen and dining area which is another 20m2.
Any advice/suggestions gratefully received!
We made a decision to rip the carpets up and have laminate flooring put down, but we need to sort the floor panels out. Before knowing it was a floating floor, we got a joiner in to replace any faulty areas and try to screw the panels down to see if that stoped the bounce and creaking. Try it for a month and then if happy put the laminate down.
The joiner arrived on Monday, made a test cut and couldnt locate any beams to screw into. Then he realised it was a floating chipboard floor and probably not as simple to rectify as first envisaged. The chipboard is placed directly on top of the thermal insulation bricks and glued together.
We are looking to lay laminate flooring in 3 maybe 4 rooms and these measure just under 50m2.
How easy it is to rip certain areas of the floating chipboard up and re-fit with fresh chipboard? Also, as this is the ground floor, will the internal walls be solid construction so the floor will go upto the walls, or could some be a framed wall? If framed, is the frame built on top of the floor?
Or do we bite the bullet and rip it all up and start again? This will be a major upheavel and we have a 5yr old and a dog to consider. Doing 'all of it' would also include the kitchen and dining area which is another 20m2.
Any advice/suggestions gratefully received!
I feel your pain, we recently moved into a 2001 house with terrible creaky floorboards upstairs, thankfully concrete downstairs. I'm also on a mission to sort them out properly before we lay carpet and new flooring. We do have some chipboard strengthened joists which I am trying to find and screw into, but it's difficult fining them and there are pipes and electrics to avoid. I don't fully understand the floating floor system you describe, but there must be something supporting the chipboard at fairly regular intervals.
I used one of those small pin hole cameras attached to my phone to understand what was going on under the floor. Here is ours, with potential hazards..
I used one of those small pin hole cameras attached to my phone to understand what was going on under the floor. Here is ours, with potential hazards..
You could screw it into the concrete with the right fixings, something like a door frame fixing would work. The tricky bit is that you'll have to drill a hole bigger than the screw head, you'll need to countersink a washer in to close that hole up before screwing the board down. I did similar in my workshop chipboarding over concrete.
Do you know for sure the boards are glued together? If they were glued properly they wouldn't squeak as they wouldn't be rubbing against each other. Thinking about it, my parents house is the same construction and has never squeaked, the floor is rock solid, your floor springing doesn't sound right either.
And do you know there's no pipes or wires under there somewhere?
Do you know for sure the boards are glued together? If they were glued properly they wouldn't squeak as they wouldn't be rubbing against each other. Thinking about it, my parents house is the same construction and has never squeaked, the floor is rock solid, your floor springing doesn't sound right either.
And do you know there's no pipes or wires under there somewhere?
This is a picture of the test hole that the joiner cut out.
Directly under the floor are thermal blocks. The hole was supposed to be of the correct size that would allow him to locate a beam/joist.
Cutting part of a block our reveals the black membrane, which appears to be on top of a concrete base.
To us, the chipboard is just laid on top of the thermal blocks and only fastened with glue, which hasn't held well.
Directly under the floor are thermal blocks. The hole was supposed to be of the correct size that would allow him to locate a beam/joist.
Cutting part of a block our reveals the black membrane, which appears to be on top of a concrete base.
To us, the chipboard is just laid on top of the thermal blocks and only fastened with glue, which hasn't held well.
Novice here, who is happily screwing down creaking floorboards and slowly winning the creaking war.
How much of a bounce do you get in the middle of the rooms(s) - what I am thinking is that the wood has expanded, but as there was not enough gap around the edges of the wall to allow the floor to expand?
Maybe re-create the floating aspect, so figure a way to get a 5 mm gap around the outside of the floor, and possibly get a mitre saw, set to the thickness of the chipboard, and run it across the floor to separate the rooms / boards?
I repeat, I am at the starting line of learning how to do stuff!
How much of a bounce do you get in the middle of the rooms(s) - what I am thinking is that the wood has expanded, but as there was not enough gap around the edges of the wall to allow the floor to expand?
Maybe re-create the floating aspect, so figure a way to get a 5 mm gap around the outside of the floor, and possibly get a mitre saw, set to the thickness of the chipboard, and run it across the floor to separate the rooms / boards?
I repeat, I am at the starting line of learning how to do stuff!
I have awful creaking from our upstairs chipboard flooring. I am planning to cut it out and replace with 18mm structural ply, and maybe put some more/new noggins in if necessary. I tried screwing down the chipboard before but its just as bad now so was only temporary. I think chipboard (probably the cheapest nastiest stuff anyway) isn't the best for the flooring.
I'll caveat this by saying I'm not a builder!
I have the same floor type. There are no battens, just concrete/ membrane/ insulation then board. I wouldn't screw into the concrete if there is a damp proof membrane between concrete and insulation as it could be compromised. You could also make it worse as the board may not hold up to the natural bounce the insulation will have between solid floor and board, so the screw could fail within the board
I have a couple of bits I need to fix, so was going to overboard the whole room with ply and screw down. Not Ideal, but not sure what else you can do without ripping the whole lot up.
I have the same floor type. There are no battens, just concrete/ membrane/ insulation then board. I wouldn't screw into the concrete if there is a damp proof membrane between concrete and insulation as it could be compromised. You could also make it worse as the board may not hold up to the natural bounce the insulation will have between solid floor and board, so the screw could fail within the board
I have a couple of bits I need to fix, so was going to overboard the whole room with ply and screw down. Not Ideal, but not sure what else you can do without ripping the whole lot up.
I can't really see an easy way to solve it
You don't have much to fix to, maybe some timber below stud walls and doorways
The chipboard won't regain any strength so will keep moving. Assuming your neighbours are happy enough with their floor then replacing the chipboard will cure it.
The tongues were probably glued when it was put making it difficult to replace boards without mullering the grooves which will then be a source of movement
Who knows, maybe the laminate will add a bit of stiffness and stop the creaking
You don't have much to fix to, maybe some timber below stud walls and doorways
The chipboard won't regain any strength so will keep moving. Assuming your neighbours are happy enough with their floor then replacing the chipboard will cure it.
The tongues were probably glued when it was put making it difficult to replace boards without mullering the grooves which will then be a source of movement
Who knows, maybe the laminate will add a bit of stiffness and stop the creaking
hab1966 said:
227bhp said:
Why not just screw the lot down?
Screw into what?The only thing under the chipboard is a thermal block, then a membrane and then concrete.
I wouldn't break the dpm and even going that route would get expensive with the size and number of fasteners required to attach the chipboard to the concrete.
The route I went was to lay 9mm plywood - I'm screwing it to the chipboard with decent screws approx every 150mm. You could glue as well as screw and 6mm in your case would be fine.
The 9mm 2.4 x 1.2m ply is about £15-20+ a sheet so would also not be that cheap and does raise the floor level but is an option that could be done to one room AND removed if needed.
The route I went was to lay 9mm plywood - I'm screwing it to the chipboard with decent screws approx every 150mm. You could glue as well as screw and 6mm in your case would be fine.
The 9mm 2.4 x 1.2m ply is about £15-20+ a sheet so would also not be that cheap and does raise the floor level but is an option that could be done to one room AND removed if needed.
JackReacher said:
I feel your pain, we recently moved into a 2001 house with terrible creaky floorboards upstairs, thankfully concrete downstairs. I'm also on a mission to sort them out properly before we lay carpet and new flooring. We do have some chipboard strengthened joists which I am trying to find and screw into, but it's difficult fining them and there are pipes and electrics to avoid. I don't fully understand the floating floor system you describe, but there must be something supporting the chipboard at fairly regular intervals.
I used one of those small pin hole cameras attached to my phone to understand what was going on under the floor. Here is ours, with potential hazards..
What camera did you use? I wish to perform a similar exercise...I used one of those small pin hole cameras attached to my phone to understand what was going on under the floor. Here is ours, with potential hazards..
rsbmw said:
What camera did you use? I wish to perform a similar exercise...
This one, has an LED light on the end, and requires a 10mm hole to get it through.https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01EWO99CY/ref=sr_ph_1...
Slightly O/T but if anyone has squeaky floors upstairs that are carpeted I found this to be great :-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OBerry-Squeak-No-More-Ki...
(got it elsewhere but forget where for about £25)
Obviously you want to know where pipes & cables are, thankfully I did as had renovated the place (really wish I'd screwed every floor board down now!).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OBerry-Squeak-No-More-Ki...
(got it elsewhere but forget where for about £25)
Obviously you want to know where pipes & cables are, thankfully I did as had renovated the place (really wish I'd screwed every floor board down now!).
Hmmm, a tricky one to sort. I've not seen this type of floor makeup very much. It's possible that the natural 'give' in Celotex/Kingspan is enough to put pressure on the chipboard joints, so that the glue fails and they begin to squeak. That's probably why this type of floor makeup is unusual!
You could rip up the existing sheets, and replace with 22mm chipboard flooring sheets fully glued with the correct adhesive recommended by the flooring manufacturer and hope that the thick chipboard and better adhesive holds together.
Or, you could change from laminate flooring (which isn't very nice...) to engineered wood flooring (plywood base with proper wood wearing surface) and glue it down to your existing chipboard with the manufacturer recommended flexible adhesive. I reckon the additional layer of engineered flooring bonded to the chipboard below will hold everything together very nicely and stop movement/squeaking.
You could rip up the existing sheets, and replace with 22mm chipboard flooring sheets fully glued with the correct adhesive recommended by the flooring manufacturer and hope that the thick chipboard and better adhesive holds together.
Or, you could change from laminate flooring (which isn't very nice...) to engineered wood flooring (plywood base with proper wood wearing surface) and glue it down to your existing chipboard with the manufacturer recommended flexible adhesive. I reckon the additional layer of engineered flooring bonded to the chipboard below will hold everything together very nicely and stop movement/squeaking.
neth27 said:
Floating floors are pretty common. If it's bouncy it's more than likely the concrete underneath is not flat. No real easy way to fix it apart from ripping everything out.
John...
You could drill through the centre of the bouncy bit and inject some sort of resin reasonably easily I'd think.John...
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