Building cost per sq m?
Discussion
subirg said:
Rubbish. Everyone should have a target budget and the most reliable start point is the £/Sqm benchmark. There will always be variance to this, but to suggest that it should be ignored is just silly. That path leads to massive over spend risk and the potential to get taken for a monumental ride by cowboy builders. The cost to build the shell is highly predictable. The cost to finance to fit out is highly variable depending on what is specified. Get a proper breakdown of all of this from any builders quoting for the work.
One other point to the OP - make sure you have a contract with the builder. I am constantly amazed by how many people blindly get into these substantial projects with no contractual protection whatsoever.
I agree with the context of what you say (especially the second paragraph) but not sure it's coming across right as beliefs in an unrealistic £/sqft is what will/can lead to overspend and stress. One other point to the OP - make sure you have a contract with the builder. I am constantly amazed by how many people blindly get into these substantial projects with no contractual protection whatsoever.
£/sqft is Very indicative only. Get an outline of the scheme Drawn up (inc schedule of works) and get some real indicative budgets. Preferably BEFORE you get planning for a huge extension you can't afford.
joshcowin said:
I love how you have said 'rubbish' and then gone on to say how the finishes cost is highly variable dependent on spec, as I said materials and spec will vary massively and so therefore will the per m2 price! Oh and so will shell construction methods also foundations and existing ground conditions!
Yes contract and copies of contractors insurance also!
Oh and go and look at previous projects!!
Exactly Yes contract and copies of contractors insurance also!
Oh and go and look at previous projects!!
subirg said:
Rubbish. Everyone should have a target budget and the most reliable start point is the £/Sqm benchmark. There will always be variance to this, but to suggest that it should be ignored is just silly. That path leads to massive over spend risk and the potential to get taken for a monumental ride by cowboy builders.
I can see that might be important if you're building for financial gain, but less important if you're building your own home.We're building a house that we haven't costed or set a timescale for and it's removed a fair bit of stress.
C Lee Farquar said:
I can see that might be important if you're building for financial gain, but less important if you're building your own home.
We're building a house that we haven't costed or set a timescale for and it's removed a fair bit of stress.
Firstly - epic user name We're building a house that we haven't costed or set a timescale for and it's removed a fair bit of stress.
For reference, I am in the midst of building my own home, so my comments are not made as a pure investor seeking a return. What this means is that we spent 2 years designing, planning, getting quotes and tenders and simply getting prepared for the project. The idea was to take out as many variables as possible. You can lock down most things to do with the shell of the building before getting started. Clearly, if digging down into a basement, all bets are off. The unknowns should be in your control as the customer as much as possible - for instance kitchen and bathroom spec, tiling and flooring spec, home automation and av. All things which can are entirely in your gift to manage. We costed and estimated everything we could and it removed a lot of stress as we wanted to know we could afford the build before we started. We are now well over half way through the build, bang on schedule and a little under budget. That's helped us remove a lot of stress. Clearly, if operating in blank cheque mode then stress may not come into it, but I don't know many people who are fortunate enough to take that view.
In this game knowledge is key. As a customer, I want to be as well informed about the project as I can be. Builders love to take advantage of anyone who is not clued up.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hi Mark, I think market forces will/should prevail. The cost of the house is irrelevant, it's only relevant to a developer and of course an end user will use it for a sanity check (assuming his budget doesn't do that automatically).There is absolutely no reason why a builder shouldn't earn exactly the same or more than a doctor or a lawyer. It's basically down the how easy it is to be a builder/doctor/lawyer and how many of them there are available.
I heard a great story from the Middle East where Rolls Royce asked a crane company to put a car on top of a building for a conference/exhibition and didn't secure the contract of lowering it at the finish. They didn't realize there was only one crane owner in the country at the time and as they were obliged to get it down the crane owner ended up with a 'free' Rolls Royce.
Slightly OT but the point I'm highlighting is the only judge of costs should be market forces not any other factor really. If everyone is making money from a risIng market and builder (good ones) are scarce then they'll rightly charge a premium. There are of course things that can't be changed such as legislation (look at the cost of CiLs!!) and material costs but if the scenario you paint happens believe you me construction costs will become more competitive and back to what you may consider 'normal'.
And just because you say your house/land is worth x (correctly or incorrectly) if the project cost is y and x+y is more than the GDV then you either carry the work out knowing your overstretched (if you live there) and after all I'm assuming the work is being done because you want the improvements - or you don't go ahead. We have an unhealthy obsession with house prices (and I'm in the business) whereas reality is if we are building an extension it should be because we would like one.
And in answer to your other question I no longer contract, I consult (on just such examples of builds - up to 40/50 unit projects) and do my own developments
subirg said:
Firstly - epic user name
For reference, I am in the midst of building my own home, so my comments are not made as a pure investor seeking a return. What this means is that we spent 2 years designing, planning, getting quotes and tenders and simply getting prepared for the project. The idea was to take out as many variables as possible. You can lock down most things to do with the shell of the building before getting started. Clearly, if digging down into a basement, all bets are off. The unknowns should be in your control as the customer as much as possible - for instance kitchen and bathroom spec, tiling and flooring spec, home automation and av. All things which can are entirely in your gift to manage. We costed and estimated everything we could and it removed a lot of stress as we wanted to know we could afford the build before we started. We are now well over half way through the build, bang on schedule and a little under budget. That's helped us remove a lot of stress. Clearly, if operating in blank cheque mode then stress may not come into it, but I don't know many people who are fortunate enough to take that view.
In this game knowledge is key. As a customer, I want to be as well informed about the project as I can be. Builders love to take advantage of anyone who is not clued up.
Don't disagree but we're the opposite from blank cheque, we have no finance or significant savings, deciding instead to pay out of earnings so we're working very hard! Sometimes we only have one chap on site, we have a stonemason who comes two days a week.For reference, I am in the midst of building my own home, so my comments are not made as a pure investor seeking a return. What this means is that we spent 2 years designing, planning, getting quotes and tenders and simply getting prepared for the project. The idea was to take out as many variables as possible. You can lock down most things to do with the shell of the building before getting started. Clearly, if digging down into a basement, all bets are off. The unknowns should be in your control as the customer as much as possible - for instance kitchen and bathroom spec, tiling and flooring spec, home automation and av. All things which can are entirely in your gift to manage. We costed and estimated everything we could and it removed a lot of stress as we wanted to know we could afford the build before we started. We are now well over half way through the build, bang on schedule and a little under budget. That's helped us remove a lot of stress. Clearly, if operating in blank cheque mode then stress may not come into it, but I don't know many people who are fortunate enough to take that view.
In this game knowledge is key. As a customer, I want to be as well informed about the project as I can be. Builders love to take advantage of anyone who is not clued up.
Our build is labour intensive, so it's reasonably easy to drip feed the materials.
Some great posts here.
Some sweeping statements too.
Most domestic drawings don't come with an electrical design/ plumbing design or finalised kitchen design. Customers rely on the builders and subcontractors expertise to create the finish they see in the magazines. I'd advise to get as much decided at the design stage as possible.
Also important to consult with a good structural engineer if necessary, often more than one way of doing things so changes could be made to make the build easier or to create a better product.
When I submit an estimate I don't get offended if the customer wants to sit down and do a deal. I do the same when I'm buying a car for example.
Some sweeping statements too.
Most domestic drawings don't come with an electrical design/ plumbing design or finalised kitchen design. Customers rely on the builders and subcontractors expertise to create the finish they see in the magazines. I'd advise to get as much decided at the design stage as possible.
Also important to consult with a good structural engineer if necessary, often more than one way of doing things so changes could be made to make the build easier or to create a better product.
When I submit an estimate I don't get offended if the customer wants to sit down and do a deal. I do the same when I'm buying a car for example.
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