Another "WTF?" - electronic dipstick

Another "WTF?" - electronic dipstick

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havoc

Original Poster:

29,928 posts

234 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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Boss has a current-generation Range Rover Sport (L494).

Lovely car - both to look at, to sit in and apparently to drive. (Not my thing, but can appreciate them)


Anyway, it's nearly 3y.o. and it threw a warning error - oil-level sender malfunction. Quick IT fix (turn it off and on again) and it disappeared, only to reappear the next day.

So he took it into the dealership...who, to fix said sender failure (so a £2 part, probably), have to take the engine apart. Genuinely, literally take it out and take bits off it to access the sender. They've had it for a week already, so it clearly isn't a nice, simple 5 minute job...

Both of us have made the comment "what's wrong with the old fashioned stick - they don't break", but apparently "not enough customers were using them"! WTF #2 - surely if someone doesn't use the dipstick then it's their own silly fault if the engine runs low on oil?!?

Either way, this has got to be yet another example of tech-for-tech's-sake, rather than anything useful/necessary...



I've asked him to enquire as to what the bill would have been if it had been out of warranty...want to know what this technological advance is likely to cost 2nd-hand / 3rd-hand owners if it fails...

Muddle238

3,871 posts

112 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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It's ridiculous, if it ain't broke then don't fix it. (In reference to the invention of electronic dipstick..)

There's nothing wrong with a conventional dipstick, sure many cars have and oil level reading via the computer but this is still backed up with a conventional dipstick. The deletion of a basic part in my opinion isn't progress, it's simply a waste of R&D time and money.

MorganP104

2,605 posts

129 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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I'd never come across electronic dipsticks before, until I went to check the oil on my current car (2003 C230 Kompressor Sport Coupe).

Popped the bonnet, looked around, prodded and pushed stuff... No sign of a really long bit of thin metal with a plastic handle.

Turned to the good people of the internet. There's a menu on the car's computer that you need to access, which "reads" the current oil level.

I'm glad I did, as the computer told me the car could do with another 500ml of oil.

Duly topped up, the computer re-read the oil level - it now showed as normal/full.

I'm not miffed with mine, as it hasn't gone wrong, but I'm still wondering if it's the answer to a question no-one asked.

kiethton

13,883 posts

179 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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and a very good way for dealers to make a nice serivce/parts return....

Your electronic thingymajig has broken - £80 diagnostic, +replacement parts, +labour to fit vs. my dipstick (that never breaks) has broken...a set of pliers on the end and a replacement for <£20 you're able to fit yourself...

Blaster72

10,772 posts

196 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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If it's taking them more than a week to change a sensor I'd suggest they're incompetent. The sensor is around £40 and is located in the sump.

As for dipsticks, outside of us lot on here how many people even bother checking their oil regularly on modern cars?

I check mine once a week, on some cars I've had you had to as they burnt so much oil.

Most modern cars I'd suggest are driven service to service and the only time the bonnets are lifted is to top up the screenwash.


untakenname

4,953 posts

191 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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It's planned obsolesce in most cases, recently found out that the filter in my car is built internally into the fuel pump so you have to replace the whole fuel sender unit at a cost of £700 rather than replace a £5 filter.

havoc

Original Poster:

29,928 posts

234 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
Blaster72 said:
If it's taking them more than a week to change a sensor I'd suggest they're incompetent. The sensor is around £40 and is located in the sump.

As for dipsticks, outside of us lot on here how many people even bother checking their oil regularly on modern cars?
First point - ahh, methinks some flannel from the service guys then to make it seem like they're doing a big job or some other random BS.

Still pretty crap though - drain oil / sump off / clean up / remove/replace sender, test function, replace sump, refill with oil. At a main dealer on a big Rangie that'll be £400+ I suspect if charged to a customer.



Second - many older drivers, in my experience (older blokes, anyway) - those that grew up knowing their car NEEDED maintenance. Gen-Y / Millennials - not so much...

speedking31

3,543 posts

135 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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I'd say 50% of non-service faults on my car are sensor failures where the thing that they're monitoring is not faulty. Sensor at minimum £200 + time to fit. Rear diff oil temp, headlight levelling, O2, lambda and gearbox neutral position switch off the top of my head.

liner33

10,642 posts

201 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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Dipsticks do break, often, ever since manufacturers got the great idea to make them out of plastic




The Leaper

4,937 posts

205 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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This is nothing new. My 2009 Jaguar XF did not have a dipstick. The engine oil level was indicated on screen by accessing the appropriate area of the on screen information system.

None of my last three Jaguars over the past 16 or so years had a dipstick or drain plug for the gearbox. The boxes were sealed for life which is not acceptable, and replacing and refilling is a pain.

Strangely, I now have a reasonably new Land Rover Discovery Sport. It comes with an engine oil level dipstick...which is odd considering these cars are all made by the JLR Group!

R.

Triumph Man

8,670 posts

167 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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Do these cars not have a blanking plate where the dipstick would otherwise be for sucking the oil out of the sump for oil changes?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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I've had several cars that have had BOTH a dash oil-level gauge (in the 1980s!) and a real dipstick... The sensor for the level gauge was easily changeable with the engine in the car, not that it needed it because it was reliable.

JD

2,769 posts

227 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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havoc said:
Either way, this has got to be yet another example of tech-for-tech's-sake, rather than anything useful/necessary...
Surely if you are going to have the sender anyway, the dipstick then becomes unnecessary?

As an owner of car that have suffered snapped dipsticks, I'm glad to see the back of them!

Mansells Tash

5,713 posts

205 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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untakenname said:
It's planned obsolesce in most cases, recently found out that the filter in my car is built internally into the fuel pump so you have to replace the whole fuel sender unit at a cost of £700 rather than replace a £5 filter.
Whatever car it is, sounds like a simple in line pre-filter would be a wise investment.

finishing touch

808 posts

166 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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I bought a universal Merc dipstick off eBay. Someone from Poland if I recall.
It's marked in millimetres 0 to 200 and comes with a list of all the engines and their max and min levels.
A couple of dings with a dot punch at 115 & 135 and it's marked for my 3.2 straight 6 cdi. Job done.


You can't trust a button on the steering wheel like you can trust your eyes.

JakeT

5,406 posts

119 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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Triumph Man said:
Do these cars not have a blanking plate where the dipstick would otherwise be for sucking the oil out of the sump for oil changes?
The Audi supercharged V6 could have this done. Fit a dipstick from an earlier engine, and you're set! Some BMWs had a 'hidden' dipstick too.

I prefer the approach of both. Sometimes you forget to check your oil religiously and a warning is good, but the stick is an excellent fallback too.

stugolf

473 posts

202 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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I hate modern cars with no dipstick, I had a BMW with a digital one and I never felt comfortable with, I check my oil once a week and may notice a slight drop etc, but if it does I may start to check other things so proactive maintenance before it escalates into something bigger but on a digital one its usually a huge blob so could've lost quite a lot more oil before I actually know about it!

Also (IMO) Oil temperature readouts, brilliant! picked up a MK2 Golf with one of these and its a great feature that's long been taken out of modern cars!

havoc

Original Poster:

29,928 posts

234 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
liner33 said:
Dipsticks do break, often, ever since manufacturers got the great idea to make them out of plastic
JD said:
Surely if you are going to have the sender anyway, the dipstick then becomes unnecessary?

As an owner of car that have suffered snapped dipsticks, I'm glad to see the back of them!
I think your logic is flawed JD. Manufacturers choose to make a part that SHOULD be metal out of plastic, then it fails, then you use that as an argument for going to a more expensive, more complicated solution that's JUST as likely to fail, rather than going back to the old metal part?!?

Seriously chap, do yourself a favour and think before typing...

(As regards "having a sender anyway" - the old-style "warning light" sender was a very simple affair vs the current 'take the oil level' sensors/senders. Simpler, cheaper, less likely to fail...and even if it did the owner had a manual backup solution...)



Oh, and I've not HEARD of a dipstick breaking amongst any of my family and friends.

alpha channel

1,386 posts

161 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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They do and did to me. Thankfully it was out of the engine as I'd just wiped it to put back in to take a measurement when it effectively broke in to three sections (a yellow plastic affair on a '96 Rover 214SEi in 2003). The replacement was a steel shaft/brown plastic number (as found on my Rover 200 Coupe). Alas the brown made it a bit more difficult to take an easy reading.

Thankfully I've yet to experience the digital dipstick as the only option, you just can't beat the old fashioned MKI eyeball.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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I think this might be an element of dealer bullst? AN oil level sensor is going to be in the sump, so unless the car is singularly poorly designed it should be possible to replace it without major surgery. Personal experience of my nearest Jaguar Dealership belonging to one of the major groups is that they will tell the most obvious and bare faced lies with a completely straight face, and are totally unabashed when you catch them at it. Maybe it's a JLR thing ;-)