Buying part of a field to build a conservatory

[Rh14n]

We are currently in the process of buying a house where the boundary of the plot is just a couple of metres from the house wall. The plot is surrounded by farmland. We would like to purchase a small strip of field from the neighbouring farm (only measuring around 200 square metres) and have broached this subject with the farmer who seems amenable. The reason for this is that we would like to extend the garden a little and also build a conservatory on the gable end of the house.

Can anyone advise as to how to go about this and any planning issues we would come up against with this plan? I presume we would have to seek permission to change the use of the land from agricultural to residential. If this was successful would we then need further planning permission to build the conservatory (if it was only approximately 20 square metres)?

[Myles Peraua]

I would have thought you'd have problems building anything on the former agricultural land. Can you build the conservatory on your existing land only, even if you do manage to make the garden bigger with the agri land?

Otherwise everyone would be buying plots off farmers to "just" put a house on surely?

[Equus]

Rh14n said:

I presume we would have to seek permission to change the use of the land from agricultural to residential. If this was successful would we then need further planning permission to build the conservatory (if it was only approximately 20 square metres)?

Correct on both counts (unless the conservatory falls within the scope of Permitted Development... and if they grant permission for the Change of Use, it's quite likely that they will withdraw PD rights on the land, anyway).

[Equus]

Myles Peraua said:

I would have thought you'd have problems building anything on the former agricultural land. Can you build the conservatory on your existing land only, even if you do manage to make the garden bigger with the agri land?

Otherwise everyone would be buying plots off farmers to "just" put a house on surely?

Regardless of the source of the land, or whether it used to be agricultural, "just" putting an additional dwelling on it requires Planning permission and would certainly be resisted if the plot lies in open countryside. But we're not talking about creating a new dwelling, here, just extending an existing one... I can see no reason why it should meet any unusual resistance from the Planners. Ditto with a small extension to the garden. There's no obvious reason (from the limited information given) that either should be a problem.

[Steve Campbell]

The farmers "amenable" but did you talk £££. You might find the farmer is amenable but only at a massively inflated cost :-)

[Rh14n]

Thank you all for your replies. Equus, I wonder if you'd be so kind as to clarify whether or not a conservatory falls within the definition of an Extension or not? As I understand it, a conservatory does not generally require planning permission (unless in a conservation area etc.) I am a complete lay-person when it comes to these matters but having read up a little on Permitted Developments and general Planning issues, I would hope that perhaps this is feasible for us. Our preferred location (due to layout of the house and sun-direction) would be to the rear of the house and would not be visible from the road or indeed any other properties.

Steve Campbell - thank you, yes, that will be our next conversation as to how much he would want for this land. He is actually the father of the current owner so will hopefully be reasonable in order to help achieve the sale of his daughter's house ... We'll see! Could anyone suggest what would be 'reasonable' for 200 square metres of good quality agricultural land in North Wales where I believe it is generally valued at between £5000 - £7000 per acre?

[hornetrider]

Rh14n said:

Could anyone suggest what would be 'reasonable' for 200 square metres of good quality agricultural land in North Wales where I believe it is generally valued at between £5000 - £7000 per acre?

Our house borders agricultural land, in fact our whole development does. The local farmer died a few years back prior to us moving here and his estate no longer wished to actively farm the land, so they sold off bits to every house bordering the land. What we know is that agricultural price was completely irrelevant, and the equivalent price was as for developed land even though there is still an agricultural restriction on it. The fact it borders your property adds significant value, and you could be looking at 50k/acre or more.

[Rh14n]

hornetrider said:

Rh14n said:

Could anyone suggest what would be 'reasonable' for 200 square metres of good quality agricultural land in North Wales where I believe it is generally valued at between £5000 - £7000 per acre?

Our house borders agricultural land, in fact our whole development does. The local farmer died a few years back prior to us moving here and his estate no longer wished to actively farm the land, so they sold off bits to every house bordering the land. What we know is that agricultural price was completely irrelevant, and the equivalent price was as for developed land even though there is still an agricultural restriction on it. The fact it borders your property adds significant value, and you could be looking at 50k/acre or more.

Thank you HornetRider. Yes, I had considered that it would undoubtedly and unfortunately cost more than the proportionate price per acre of agricutural land and would be prepared to pay a few thousand I suppose. We also understand that the septic tank to the house is located in this area of the field (with right of access to service/maintain it) so purchasing it would also tidy up that issue (we may have to move it depending on its exact location if it lies beneath where the conservatory would be built.

[DavidY]

I've brought agricultural land into my garden, you have to apply to extend the curtilage of your house boundary, so that it now extends into the new land. I used a specialised planning agent to do it for me. Sometimes you will get restrictions on the additional land, but we didn't.

[Davel]

Maybe worth an informal chat with the Duty Planning Officer at your local council?

Some can often be very helpful if asked.

[mikeiow]

hornetrider said:

Rh14n said:

Could anyone suggest what would be 'reasonable' for 200 square metres of good quality agricultural land in North Wales where I believe it is generally valued at between £5000 - £7000 per acre?

Our house borders agricultural land, in fact our whole development does. The local farmer died a few years back prior to us moving here and his estate no longer wished to actively farm the land, so they sold off bits to every house bordering the land. What we know is that agricultural price was completely irrelevant, and the equivalent price was as for developed land even though there is still an agricultural restriction on it. The fact it borders your property adds significant value, and you could be looking at 50k/acre or more.

So 4,000 square metres to an acre, 200 sqm ought to be 1/20th of an acre......so perhaps only £2,500 if 50K/acre is right?!
Still sounds a tiny sum in the scheme of a house purchase!?

[Rh14n]

mikeiow said:

So 4,000 square metres to an acre, 200 sqm ought to be 1/20th of an acre......so perhaps only £2,500 if 50K/acre is right?!
Still sounds a tiny sum in the scheme of a house purchase!?

Yes, I would be happy if it came in at around that for us - add that to legal costs, landscaping and the build of a conservatory and I think it'd be worth doing to add value to the house alone and in addition of course we would enjoy the use of it. A chat with the farmer and the Duty Planning Officer will be our next steps I think. Thank you all.

[samdale]

What's the rest of the plot like? If it's going to be that sort of price I'd make sure I bought a nice big chunk. No harm in having a nice big garden for a couple of grand more. Unless of course it already has a massive garden but just not in the right location for the conservatory.

[Rh14n]

Agreed Sam. Apparently someone previously wanted to buy 3 or 4 acres but were turned down so I don't think they'd sell a huge amount of land. We'll see how the conversation goes - how much he'd be willing to sell and for how much of course.

[Willy Nilly]

You won't get it for agricultural land rates. He'll almost certainly go through a land agent who will look at what it will do to the value of your property. I would expect it to cost over 10 grand and there will be a building covenant on it.

The land owner isn't looking to sell and holds all the cards.

[C Lee Farquar]

[quote=Willy Nilly]You won't get it for agricultural land rates. He'll almost certainly go through a land agent who will look at what it will do to the value of your property. I would expect it to cost over 10 grand and there will be a building covenant on it.

The land owner isn't looking to sell and holds all the cards. [/quote

Yep

[Equus]

Rh14n said:

Equus, I wonder if you'd be so kind as to clarify whether or not a conservatory falls within the definition of an Extension or not?

So far as Planning goes a conservatory is not a special case and is treated like any other extension (whether any extension needs Planning Permission or not depends on whether it meets the rules for ' Permitted Development').

Conservatories are treated as a special case under Building Regulations, but that's a quite separate system.

Very basically, Planning is to do with the impact development might have on others (external appearance, nuisance value), whereas Building Regulations are to do with the technical standards the building is built to, to ensure that it is safe, functional and energy efficient.

The rules for Building Regulations exemption are potentially complex, so seek professional advice..


Aside from the question of negotiating price, you may want to make the purchase conditional upon obtaining Planning permission to change the use to garden. You can submit a Planning Application even when you don't own the land (you just have to serve notice on the landowner), so you can arrange the deal in such a way that if you fail to gain planning permission, you have no commitment to purchase the land.

Edited by Equus on Monday 27th February 18:52

[Welshbeef]

Willy Nilly said:

You won't get it for agricultural land rates. He'll almost certainly go through a land agent who will look at what it will do to the value of your property. I would expect it to cost over 10 grand and there will be a building covenant on it.

The land owner isn't looking to sell and holds all the cards.

Friends of ours have land which had been added to the house before they bought it. It has a covenant on it any building on that land in a huge timeframe (30years I think) the increased valuation of the land would have to be paid to the original land owner. (Regardless of if they sell it or simply use it).
As such they are not building on that section - but I found it very interesting you could put in such a restriction.

I would certainly open the discussion about budget £ with the farmer as you might not even bother wasting any time or money on it to only find out it's way beyond what you are willing to spend.
Plus cost of buying it and cost of conservatory & given North Wales house prices it might be far cheaper and easier buying another property instead which has all the work done or is a better proposition

[gred]

Out of interest what type of farm is it? We bought about a third of an acre from our neighbouring farmer and as he is a dairy farmer had quite a lot of expense in accurate surveying etc to adjust his EU subsidies through DEFRA. I had agreed to pay his legals but sensibly put a £500 ceiling on it which was soon used up.

[anonymous-user]

Is this an essential part of the house plan, or would it just be a nice bonus? If it's the former, then I think you're buying the wrong house. If it's the latter then prepare for a long and possibly pointless battle.

The farmer will almost certainly want more money than you are hoping for, and the council are very unlikely to be keen, unless it's in an area already allocated for potential housing, in which case the farmer will want A LOT more money than you are hoping for.