Spec my network cable

Author
Discussion

Dave_ST220

10,296 posts

206 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
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chasingracecars said:
Poorly installed or kinked Cat5 is quite likely to break.

Cat6 is thicker and equally should not be bent if you terminate correctly and use correctly then is far better to run.

To me cost difference is nothing for the added future usability.

If you treat Cat5 in the same way you describe poorly installed Cat6 I very much doubt the Cat5 would work at all.
You need to read up on things like FEXT and NEXT. CAT5e is much more forgiving to bad installation practices than CAT6/CAT6A. If you are worried about future proofing then you shouldn't be installing either, you should be installing CAT7!

chasingracecars

1,696 posts

98 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
Dave_ST220 said:
You need to read up on things like FEXT and NEXT. CAT5e is much more forgiving to bad installation practices than CAT6/CAT6A. If you are worried about future proofing then you shouldn't be installing either, you should be installing CAT7!
I install Cat6a most of the time to get the full 10G for 4K 4:4:4 and am about to start putting in fibre connections. Bad installations don't happen.

If you are doing something badly, you shouldn't be doing it at all.

Dave_ST220

10,296 posts

206 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
& what tester are you certifying your installs with? Do you expect the average DIY'er to have access to the same equipment?

chasingracecars

1,696 posts

98 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
For 10 years I didn't use a tester and never had a fail. Now because its my own company I have a Fluke DSX-5000 and still every time they pass.

I can't justify driving back across the country because one cable is faulty, I had to buy the Fluke when looking at someone else install. Turned out cables had been severed by another trade. Now I always carry it.

CAT5e Cable, between CAT5e keystone and CAT5e Patch

CAT6a Cable, between Screened CAT6a Keystone and CAT6a Patch.

Any optional snags on route when pulling are protected what ever i am pulling.

CAT6a is capabable of 4k 12Bit 4:4:4, Cat5e will do 1080i sometimes 1080p.

Fibre costs have dropped making is via option to pull in as well as CAT6a for future proof.

This explains it.

http://premiumwires.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/cat5e-v...

Yes it does say CAT6a is not needed in the home, however some of the systems I install cost more then most homes!

Dave_ST220

10,296 posts

206 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
chasingracecars said:
For 10 years I didn't use a tester and never had a fail.
You're missing the point. For a link to completely fail it basically needs a crossed pair or physical damage. I could bend a CAT6A cable that would fail a certification test yet would pass a continuity test or work as far as the EU was concerned. Or a link that was 120M that still "works" for the customer but won't pass any test on a certifier.

My point is, for the average DIY'er CAT6 is much easier to get wrong (normally by untwisting the pairs and too much separation at the module ends) than CAT5e and for 99% of users CAT5e is more than enough.

Anyway, the OP has sorted their choice.

ps, 4K didn't even exist when CAT6 was ratified!

chasingracecars

1,696 posts

98 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
Cat6 -

2002 - Cat 6 standard - ANSI/TIA/EIA-568-B.2-1

4K, First Camera -

NHK researchers built a UHDTV prototype which they demonstrated in 2003

Cat6a -

The standard for Category 6A is ANSI/TIA-568-C.1, defined by the TIA for enhanced performance standards for twisted pair cable systems. It was defined in 2009

mickmcpaddy

1,445 posts

106 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
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I do find all this talk about the latest spec cable etc a bit over the top, what I will say is I put cat5e everywhere in my house and have never used most of it, twin data point by the side of every bed for eg, never used/never have a use for it.

Also when it was all wired and I got the internet put in I didn't have a patch panel wired yet so at the point it was going I found the two ends, one from my PC in the office and the other from the router, stripped them back, twisted them together and it worked flawlessly, granted if I had a 10 million gigabit file to transfer to my secure server on the other side of the planet every night then I may struggle a bit, but for copying the odd film to my NAS or warching a bit of telly it worked absolutely fine.

After all, on some of the older systems despite what jiggery pokery the router and switch do to the data signal most of its travel is on a Victorian piece of copper phone pair wire and it uses that ok, likewise for TV signals, all that HD tv you can get comes down a single co-ax cable after traveling many miles through the air. Is cat 7 cable really necessary for a house?

Wozy68

5,393 posts

171 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
mickmcpaddy said:
I do find all this talk about the latest spec cable etc a bit over the top, what I will say is I put cat5e everywhere in my house and have never used most of it, twin data point by the side of every bed for eg, never used/never have a use for it.

Also when it was all wired and I got the internet put in I didn't have a patch panel wired yet so at the point it was going I found the two ends, one from my PC in the office and the other from the router, stripped them back, twisted them together and it worked flawlessly, granted if I had a 10 million gigabit file to transfer to my secure server on the other side of the planet every night then I may struggle a bit, but for copying the odd film to my NAS or warching a bit of telly it worked absolutely fine.

After all, on some of the older systems despite what jiggery pokery the router and switch do to the data signal most of its travel is on a Victorian piece of copper phone pair wire and it uses that ok, likewise for TV signals, all that HD tv you can get comes down a single co-ax cable after traveling many miles through the air. Is cat 7 cable really necessary for a house?
Agree.

I love this put data points everywhere in your house, too many is not enough malarky. I rewired my place four years ago and CAT5E was the recomend from the Sparky, as he didnt rate CAT6 for install in an old house, he also told me that a lot of them will become US in a few years time as WIFI got better and better. He was right, most are not used, as I just WIFI it all. In the end only three are used, one for my office, and two for the two main rooms of the house for the TVs, everything else is WIFI so the data points arn't rarly used.

I'm making and installing AV cabinets here there and everywhere in renovated houses and each room as data points, yet the customers just dont or rarely use them either it seems. Make of that what you will. smile

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

240 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
Dave_ST220 said:
chasingracecars said:
Poorly installed or kinked Cat5 is quite likely to break.

Cat6 is thicker and equally should not be bent if you terminate correctly and use correctly then is far better to run.

To me cost difference is nothing for the added future usability.

If you treat Cat5 in the same way you describe poorly installed Cat6 I very much doubt the Cat5 would work at all.
You need to read up on things like FEXT and NEXT. CAT5e is much more forgiving to bad installation practices than CAT6/CAT6A. If you are worried about future proofing then you shouldn't be installing either, you should be installing CAT7!
Ha, we installed one of the first Cat7 systems in the UK back in the nineties or early noughties. Horrible looking connectors and total overkill for home use.

Real future proofing is to put good conduits in so you can pull it out and pop fibre or whatever in in future... smile

eliot

11,449 posts

255 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
1) Make sure you buy proper good quality cable, not CCA (copper coated aluminium). 300m of cat5 will be about £50 and £85 for cat6. Cheap boxes on ebay are cca.
2) If you can, fit deep 48mm back boxes - makes fitting easier especially with cat6 (bend radius)

I have 52 points in my house, all cat6 diy installed. I use it for network, phone, temperature sensors and even my alarm control panel.
Some rooms could do with more cables;tv's use ethernet, along with games consoles and media streamers etc.

gavsdavs

1,203 posts

127 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
eliot said:
1) Make sure you buy proper good quality cable, not CCA (copper coated aluminium). 300m of cat5 will be about £50 and £85 for cat6. Cheap boxes on ebay are cca.
2) If you can, fit deep 48mm back boxes - makes fitting easier especially with cat6 (bend radius)

I have 52 points in my house, all cat6 diy installed. I use it for network, phone, temperature sensors and even my alarm control panel.
Some rooms could do with more cables;tv's use ethernet, along with games consoles and media streamers etc.
Am I missing something here.

What's the point of running mulitple ethernet cables into each room when you can use a hub/switch IN each room instead ?

I put cat5 into my house like 18 years ago and it runs gig - plenty for what you need.

What's the justification for cat6 - are people really anticipating 10gige connected fridges ?

EireEng

113 posts

88 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all

I'll be doing a refurb soon & am still struggling to find a use for CATx cable anywhere really.

No TVs in the house, no sky, no CCTV.

Myself and the Mrs. have a phone each and a laptop each. Bog standard TalkTalk router in a corner downstairs, never had a want for anything more?

eliot

11,449 posts

255 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
gavsdavs said:
Am I missing something here.

What's the point of running mulitple ethernet cables into each room when you can use a hub/switch IN each room instead ?

?
Because thats a bodge job mate.


chasingracecars

1,696 posts

98 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
If you are using HD TV extenders you need a direct connection therefore can't use a switch.

For 4K it needs Cat6, I suspect Full 12bit 4:4:4 will need Cat6a.

There is coming the tech to do this with a switch but we are looking at Q2 this year.

Cat cable is very versatile so running it to each power socket allows you to extend wifi, send tv pictures, distribute audio, hard wire devices and add cctv to name a few.

alock

4,231 posts

212 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
For our recent house renovation we ran a few lengths of cat6 from the understairs cupboard where the router is to the extreme corners of the house. This has allowed a couple of wireless access points for good coverage.

Everything then runs on wireless. 3 x 4k Netflix streams alongside casual Web browsing is fine. We never have any problems.

10 years ago I would have made more use of multiple cables because TVs were dumb and PCs were more likely to be desktops. Only one of our current TVs is even connected to an aerial!

mattdaniels

7,353 posts

283 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
eliot said:
2) If you can, fit deep 48mm back boxes
This x1000

OP if you have any sway with the builders, see if you can get them to fit deep back boxes. They make life so much easier when you have multiple ethernet cables coming in to a face plate.

stneville

93 posts

177 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
If you will want to run hdmi over cat cable run cat 6. Most of the manufacturers recommend Cat 6 over cat 5 for things such as HBASE T

ATG

20,642 posts

273 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
eliot said:
gavsdavs said:
Am I missing something here.

What's the point of running mulitple ethernet cables into each room when you can use a hub/switch IN each room instead ?

?
Because thats a bodge job mate.
How on earth do you figure that??

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

240 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
ATG said:
eliot said:
gavsdavs said:
Am I missing something here.

What's the point of running mulitple ethernet cables into each room when you can use a hub/switch IN each room instead ?

?
Because thats a bodge job mate.
How on earth do you figure that??
It's less flexible, but for running Ethernet at home it's fine.

gavsdavs

1,203 posts

127 months

Wednesday 1st March 2017
quotequote all
eliot said:
gavsdavs said:
Am I missing something here.

What's the point of running mulitple ethernet cables into each room when you can use a hub/switch IN each room instead ?
Because thats a bodge job mate.
Not really. I have media players in each room i have TVs, or TVs which themselves are media players (they're pretty common).
A 5 port gigabit switch is cheap as chips which does a living/bedroom just fine.

If you're actually piping video from room to room i have to ask you why? Surely you'd want the box delivering your video to your display in the same room (so you can use the remote control, etc) ?

Everything can be delivered over IP that way and you don't really have to have more than 1 ethernet port per room, so long as it supports gig.



If you think it's a bodge job i have a very simple question for you.

Explain the difference between a switch and a hub.