How important is the area you live in
Discussion
It's fixable... said:
I've been a school governor for ten years and I'll echo what DionB says above...
Every educational setting has its share of high achievers, reaching age related expectation and plodders / SEND plus those with behavioural issues (and that just the school staff (only joking.
Each cohort (year group) of kids is different and the teaching staff have to adapt to wring the best out of them.
Support from home is far more important and as DionB says sets the scene for the educational and psyche development of the child.
So I too would rather live as cheaply as possible leaving as much disposable income as possible for life choices rather than being trapped in financial hell.
A friend of mine is a deputy head at a challenging school and really says the same as these two.. I asked him about the schools in the ares he's moved to, as my nephew has gone to one of the choices [ofsted requires improvement] and the other is 'outstanding'. His view was it really didn't matter which place 'babysat' his kids for a few hours, education is made with home life and it's his responsibility to help them achieve their potential. I've still just commited to buying next door to a fantastic school, but everything else that came with the area made it a no brainer for me. Every educational setting has its share of high achievers, reaching age related expectation and plodders / SEND plus those with behavioural issues (and that just the school staff (only joking.
Each cohort (year group) of kids is different and the teaching staff have to adapt to wring the best out of them.
Support from home is far more important and as DionB says sets the scene for the educational and psyche development of the child.
So I too would rather live as cheaply as possible leaving as much disposable income as possible for life choices rather than being trapped in financial hell.
We've always lived in the best areas we could afford in small flats initially, not the top places in London like Kensington but not bad - Primrose Hill, Richmond etc.
We sacrificed space, and had to live in flats for this, but the increases over the last 10 years have been great and when we moved out of London we could afford a nice house.
So my tip is that area seems to affect your capital appreciation quite well so if you're minded to move up the ladder, a desirable area seems a sensible investment as long as you can live comfortably in the property
We sacrificed space, and had to live in flats for this, but the increases over the last 10 years have been great and when we moved out of London we could afford a nice house.
So my tip is that area seems to affect your capital appreciation quite well so if you're minded to move up the ladder, a desirable area seems a sensible investment as long as you can live comfortably in the property
For a slightly different perspective!!
I think it just comes down to what your priorities are.
We have gone the opposite way to most on here, early 40's and just taken on a massive mortgage ( haven't had a mortgage for 8 years previously) to buy the dream house.
The last house was a lovely house but in a cheaper area ( bit more remote, well as remote as the south east gets !! ) but we really missed being able to walk to a village which we think will be important in later life.
It has meant financial compromise certainly for a couple of years, selling a couple of nice cars, holidays in Devon rather than somewhere exotic etc stamp duty was the killer.
To me it's worth it but probably won't be for most.
Phib
I think it just comes down to what your priorities are.
We have gone the opposite way to most on here, early 40's and just taken on a massive mortgage ( haven't had a mortgage for 8 years previously) to buy the dream house.
The last house was a lovely house but in a cheaper area ( bit more remote, well as remote as the south east gets !! ) but we really missed being able to walk to a village which we think will be important in later life.
It has meant financial compromise certainly for a couple of years, selling a couple of nice cars, holidays in Devon rather than somewhere exotic etc stamp duty was the killer.
To me it's worth it but probably won't be for most.
Phib
phib said:
For a slightly different perspective!!
I think it just comes down to what your priorities are.
We have gone the opposite way to most on here, early 40's and just taken on a massive mortgage ( haven't had a mortgage for 8 years previously) to buy the dream house.
The last house was a lovely house but in a cheaper area ( bit more remote, well as remote as the south east gets !! ) but we really missed being able to walk to a village which we think will be important in later life.
It has meant financial compromise certainly for a couple of years, selling a couple of nice cars, holidays in Devon rather than somewhere exotic etc stamp duty was the killer.
To me it's worth it but probably won't be for most.
Phib
We have just done the same Phib and are early 40's too. I think it just comes down to what your priorities are.
We have gone the opposite way to most on here, early 40's and just taken on a massive mortgage ( haven't had a mortgage for 8 years previously) to buy the dream house.
The last house was a lovely house but in a cheaper area ( bit more remote, well as remote as the south east gets !! ) but we really missed being able to walk to a village which we think will be important in later life.
It has meant financial compromise certainly for a couple of years, selling a couple of nice cars, holidays in Devon rather than somewhere exotic etc stamp duty was the killer.
To me it's worth it but probably won't be for most.
Phib
We wanted to be able to walk into town rather than live in a pretty but remote village. Plus we have a young son and the last thing he wants is to live in the middle of a field.
Buying a full renovation project was the only way for us to be able to afford both the space and location. The new car fund is 100% depleted!
Not looking forward to the mortgage repayments for the next 20 years though....
OP,
I didn't read all the replies, the main thing is that you personally are happy with the situation, however there are a couple of things negative and a couple of things positive to think about in your situation.
Firstly, as you rightly mention you will be getting a smaller slice of the 'property appreciation pie' given that this has been a tremendous earner for a lot of people it wouldn't have meant you're a slave to a mortgage company for decades, you could jump in, tighten the belt for a few years, and then downsize to where you are now, with cash to spare.
The way I'm seeing this is that you are essentially trading relatively large future net gains for the immediacy of living well right now. Its something that a lot of people do, myself included (I only started a pension last year at 37!), but isn't always the right thing to do, though you can see why people can do it, 'if I go on holiday now I'm going to have a great time, vs not going on holiday for some indeterminate future gain' So you do have to think that whilst you are correct in that you may theoretically have to pay a mortgage longer, you may not have to see it through: If you stretch now, you could by downsizing in 10-15 years, actually be able to retire several years before you might otherwise, since essentially all the bonus cash you're pocketing now and spending on holidays, cars etc will be banked in your bricks and mortar, multiplying many fold over the years. Its not really for any one here to judge your personal ratio of: life experience vs future work life vs childrens education vs pensions. But I would suggest a little stretch as being necessary
The idea of being in a bad area and sending your children to private school I don't think holds up, you might as well spend that extra money on a mortgage in a better area where the schools are automatically better, then getting the gain in both education and housing/future wealth.
However there is also the consideration of urban growth in general, in 20 years the area you're in might have yuppified and might see a growth spurt, again, allowing you to move down to a slightly worse area and then banking that extra money.
Overall though, its like when you play with those online pension calculators, how saving an extra £20 a week leads to a final amount £xxxx times larger in 40 years time and letting you retire 4 years earlier. Look at the big overall life time picture and then decide...
I didn't read all the replies, the main thing is that you personally are happy with the situation, however there are a couple of things negative and a couple of things positive to think about in your situation.
Firstly, as you rightly mention you will be getting a smaller slice of the 'property appreciation pie' given that this has been a tremendous earner for a lot of people it wouldn't have meant you're a slave to a mortgage company for decades, you could jump in, tighten the belt for a few years, and then downsize to where you are now, with cash to spare.
The way I'm seeing this is that you are essentially trading relatively large future net gains for the immediacy of living well right now. Its something that a lot of people do, myself included (I only started a pension last year at 37!), but isn't always the right thing to do, though you can see why people can do it, 'if I go on holiday now I'm going to have a great time, vs not going on holiday for some indeterminate future gain' So you do have to think that whilst you are correct in that you may theoretically have to pay a mortgage longer, you may not have to see it through: If you stretch now, you could by downsizing in 10-15 years, actually be able to retire several years before you might otherwise, since essentially all the bonus cash you're pocketing now and spending on holidays, cars etc will be banked in your bricks and mortar, multiplying many fold over the years. Its not really for any one here to judge your personal ratio of: life experience vs future work life vs childrens education vs pensions. But I would suggest a little stretch as being necessary
The idea of being in a bad area and sending your children to private school I don't think holds up, you might as well spend that extra money on a mortgage in a better area where the schools are automatically better, then getting the gain in both education and housing/future wealth.
However there is also the consideration of urban growth in general, in 20 years the area you're in might have yuppified and might see a growth spurt, again, allowing you to move down to a slightly worse area and then banking that extra money.
Overall though, its like when you play with those online pension calculators, how saving an extra £20 a week leads to a final amount £xxxx times larger in 40 years time and letting you retire 4 years earlier. Look at the big overall life time picture and then decide...
We moved to a slightly smaller house in a much nicer are a year ago and added £150k to our mortgage to do so. So far, it is has been a good decision.
Oldest child has just gone to secondary school and we moved to catchment for a much better school.
Aside from the fact it is just nicer, there have already been benefits to us living in our village where people are architects, health professionals and car garage owners etc- we get free advice and mates rates on things now!
I also think that my kids will benefit in the future- they are growing up with kids with aspirational parents, and will probably become successful adults themselves. I know business owners, so I know I can get my daughter loads of good work experience in the future to help her on her way. This feels snobbish as im writing it, but it is true.
Our village has a healthy community who help each other. Doesnt seem too snobbish either- some people live in £250k ex-council houses, others live in million pound houses, bu most people seem to mix with each other fine.
Oldest child has just gone to secondary school and we moved to catchment for a much better school.
Aside from the fact it is just nicer, there have already been benefits to us living in our village where people are architects, health professionals and car garage owners etc- we get free advice and mates rates on things now!
I also think that my kids will benefit in the future- they are growing up with kids with aspirational parents, and will probably become successful adults themselves. I know business owners, so I know I can get my daughter loads of good work experience in the future to help her on her way. This feels snobbish as im writing it, but it is true.
Our village has a healthy community who help each other. Doesnt seem too snobbish either- some people live in £250k ex-council houses, others live in million pound houses, bu most people seem to mix with each other fine.
I wouldn't live in a terrible area because it was cheap.
That said I wouldn't probably pay through the nose for a great area to live in a s
t place. I've been thinking about moving, and I could afford an alright 2 bed in most parts of town, or a 1 bed in just about any part of town. While there is appeal to live in a nice part of z1/2, do I really want to live in a 450sqft flat that costs 600k just because of where it is, I think there is probably a trade off and a sweetspot to be found but transaction costs and general sluggishness of the whole housing sale process put me off bothering.
Add to that, I don't spend much time in the area my place is in anyway, work takes up 12 hours a day, when I am out I can go anywhere quite easily via trains/cabs etc, so it really would be a few hours a week that I do spend in the local area that I would be paying for. That said, I don't have children and my mindset would likely be different if I had to factor that in.
That said I wouldn't probably pay through the nose for a great area to live in a s
t place. I've been thinking about moving, and I could afford an alright 2 bed in most parts of town, or a 1 bed in just about any part of town. While there is appeal to live in a nice part of z1/2, do I really want to live in a 450sqft flat that costs 600k just because of where it is, I think there is probably a trade off and a sweetspot to be found but transaction costs and general sluggishness of the whole housing sale process put me off bothering.Add to that, I don't spend much time in the area my place is in anyway, work takes up 12 hours a day, when I am out I can go anywhere quite easily via trains/cabs etc, so it really would be a few hours a week that I do spend in the local area that I would be paying for. That said, I don't have children and my mindset would likely be different if I had to factor that in.
ScotHill said:
move to another 3-bed house in a better area for £250k+ but that's a huge chunk of money (including the extra interest) that could be spent on family holidays, hobbies, trips, toys, uni fees, pensions/ISAs etc.
?
Personally I would definitely move. It feels daunting now, but even without huge house price gains over the next 15 year, the inflation alone is going to make that extra £90k feel like peanuts.?
Suppose it depends why you are thinking about it. My rationale is one that you touched upon re education levels. Kids get their expectations in life from their family and peers and the two options could be the difference between your kids leaving school at 16 with all their mates, or them accepting nothing less than university like all their mates in a different area.
Not necessarily a bad thing and it largely depends what you want for your kids.
I paid off my mortgage at 47 years old to be able to leave the hussle and bussle of south East England and move to more rural part of the country
We have very small monthly expenses and both work 3 days a week mostly. I earn far less now than I did 5 years ago but I enjoy life far more.
We have very small monthly expenses and both work 3 days a week mostly. I earn far less now than I did 5 years ago but I enjoy life far more.
Puggit said:
Where does one get a house you love for £160k?
Depends where you are in the country I guess.You can have a 3 bed town house on the street I grew up on for around £80k.
Admittedly it's not the best area - but it's hardly down town Beirut either. Reasonably nice parks either end of the street and a primary school just round the corner.
phib said:
For a slightly different perspective!!
I think it just comes down to what your priorities are.
We have gone the opposite way to most on here, early 40's and just taken on a massive mortgage ( haven't had a mortgage for 8 years previously) to buy the dream house.
The last house was a lovely house but in a cheaper area ( bit more remote, well as remote as the south east gets !! ) but we really missed being able to walk to a village which we think will be important in later life.
It has meant financial compromise certainly for a couple of years, selling a couple of nice cars, holidays in Devon rather than somewhere exotic etc stamp duty was the killer.
To me it's worth it but probably won't be for most.
Phib
Hmmm, i could have written that............... Except the early 40's bit. Ive slipped into the later 40's!I think it just comes down to what your priorities are.
We have gone the opposite way to most on here, early 40's and just taken on a massive mortgage ( haven't had a mortgage for 8 years previously) to buy the dream house.
The last house was a lovely house but in a cheaper area ( bit more remote, well as remote as the south east gets !! ) but we really missed being able to walk to a village which we think will be important in later life.
It has meant financial compromise certainly for a couple of years, selling a couple of nice cars, holidays in Devon rather than somewhere exotic etc stamp duty was the killer.
To me it's worth it but probably won't be for most.
Phib
The only thing im not happy about is that i didn't do it sooner, which i could have done. And got more growth from my money. Hindsight and all that.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Good post.Obsession with material wealth not always equates happiness.Bought our house thirty five years ago.Brand new build nice little house and payd for.Our three children grew up in this house.All left now piece and quiet>
ScotHill said:
We live in a £160k house with about £90k on the mortgage, earn £70k between us. We love the house, the area is perfectly safe (e.g. no drug dealers) but rough around the edges and not that well educated on the whole; the schools are fine for kids who pay attention and want to be there but plenty of opportunities for those kids to get distracted by tearaways and ne'er-do-wells.
We don't want to be slaves to a mortgage and plan on paying it off in 8 years time, before we reach our 50s, to have more money to do things and provide for the child(ren). Are we crazy to do this? Shouldn't we be getting the biggest mortgage we can and getting the benefit of higher house value later on in life? We could probably move to another 3-bed house in a better area for £250k+ but that's a huge chunk of money (including the extra interest) that could be spent on family holidays, hobbies, trips, toys, uni fees, pensions/ISAs etc.
For those that live in a rougher area than you'd like, particularly if you have children, how do you deal with it? Do you even think about it?
So the wee boy is just over a year old now and is starting to change my view, and that our own financial decisions are going to have an impact on how he grows up. If it were just us adults I'd be fine living where we are, but children are just building their perceptions of the world from scratch, and I'm not sure where we live now is how I would like him to perceive it (on the edge of Knightswood in Glasgow). I don't see myself reflected in the people we live around, and on visits to the local health centre, shops or even local supermarket there are very very few people that I would want to invite into my home for tea and biscuits, and there is too much crap behaviour (from children and adults) going on outside without anything else to balance that (extreme example but see [this thread|https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1749532[/url], although to be fair Glasgow has the classiest jakies).We don't want to be slaves to a mortgage and plan on paying it off in 8 years time, before we reach our 50s, to have more money to do things and provide for the child(ren). Are we crazy to do this? Shouldn't we be getting the biggest mortgage we can and getting the benefit of higher house value later on in life? We could probably move to another 3-bed house in a better area for £250k+ but that's a huge chunk of money (including the extra interest) that could be spent on family holidays, hobbies, trips, toys, uni fees, pensions/ISAs etc.
For those that live in a rougher area than you'd like, particularly if you have children, how do you deal with it? Do you even think about it?
In other areas there are teenagers without perma-aggressive faces, healthy looking joggers, cafes that aren't greasy spoons, and people talking to their kids without shouting at them and kids talking to other kids without shouting at them, and just generally a whole lot less shouting going on which is more of the environment I'd like my son to be in. I'm sure he would be fine where we live now, just that he would probably be... finer if we moved somewhere else.
I also kind of realised (as suggested above) that the difference in cost of a more expensive house, stamp duty aside, is mainly in the extra interest you're paying - once you've bought it you can sell it on again and get all of the capital back.
So will probably do any house work that really needs doing next year, and then look at moving in 2-5 years time, maybe before he starts school. Should give us £200k in equity/cash so maybe look to buy something £300-350k that we can hopefully clear the mortgage for in our mid-50s.
It very much depends where you are raised.
I was raised in the countryside with no neighbours and loads of space.
That's what I wanted and now own, approx 5 miles from where I was raised
My eldest daughter preferred it when we lived in town (a house I bought purely for it's potential) as she wants to be near pubs, train station etc
My youngest two both love having their "own park" but mentioned that they would have liked some neighbours kids to play with.
However I specifically bought it because there are no neighbours - if I want to turn up my music or tune V8s at 1am - I can.
My area is expensive for the Midlands but slightly cheaper than where I was raised - however there are so few homes around with land, that I bought the first one that met my requirements.
The schools are good and being the slightly cheaper area means the latest Iphone / fashions aren't essential to fit in at school.
I was raised in the countryside with no neighbours and loads of space.
That's what I wanted and now own, approx 5 miles from where I was raised
My eldest daughter preferred it when we lived in town (a house I bought purely for it's potential) as she wants to be near pubs, train station etc
My youngest two both love having their "own park" but mentioned that they would have liked some neighbours kids to play with.
However I specifically bought it because there are no neighbours - if I want to turn up my music or tune V8s at 1am - I can.
My area is expensive for the Midlands but slightly cheaper than where I was raised - however there are so few homes around with land, that I bought the first one that met my requirements.
The schools are good and being the slightly cheaper area means the latest Iphone / fashions aren't essential to fit in at school.
There is no right or wrong.
We recently moved into our first home - late 20's my wife is early 30's. Originally we were looking more remote, older properties but eventually settled on a 20yo but reasonably redone 4 bed detached in a newer estate in between the local village and town.
It probably has been the best decision considering my wife nearly cancelled the viewing. But it is spot on.
Location was always important, but all my neighbours are good and professionals. So i do value location.
In regards to value it was over our original budget by 30k. So instead of a 80k ish mortgage we now have 110k mortgage. Maybe timing was right but our mortgage is over 30 years with a 10 years fixed at 2.5%.
There is things we want to do and have done with our mortgage payments being low (ish). Our deposit was just over 75% though, unfortunately to really get the best deals it really does mean having a good deposit down.
But the reason for my post is do i regret the 30k increase in budget via mortgage - no. The house is what we really needed (even if i now just have a large single garage not the double i originally intended but i did get a larger drive....
We recently moved into our first home - late 20's my wife is early 30's. Originally we were looking more remote, older properties but eventually settled on a 20yo but reasonably redone 4 bed detached in a newer estate in between the local village and town.
It probably has been the best decision considering my wife nearly cancelled the viewing. But it is spot on.
Location was always important, but all my neighbours are good and professionals. So i do value location.
In regards to value it was over our original budget by 30k. So instead of a 80k ish mortgage we now have 110k mortgage. Maybe timing was right but our mortgage is over 30 years with a 10 years fixed at 2.5%.
There is things we want to do and have done with our mortgage payments being low (ish). Our deposit was just over 75% though, unfortunately to really get the best deals it really does mean having a good deposit down.
But the reason for my post is do i regret the 30k increase in budget via mortgage - no. The house is what we really needed (even if i now just have a large single garage not the double i originally intended but i did get a larger drive....
All homes have a conprimise to be made, none are really perfect. Therefore the key is to understand the best conprimise for you.
3 years ago we left a very nice house with double garage and large drive in an area that wasnt our preference and no where near a village or a train station for the commute.
We swapped it for a house ( same value) that hadnt been touched in 30 years, no garage, and was in a real state, yet was in our perfect location, walk into a village with plenty of pubs, restaurants,cafes and shops, river walks for the dog, and importantly walking distance the the station for my daily 2 hour each way commute. We have been renovating bit by bit, some outsourced some diy, and we couldnt be happier, proving this is a better compromise for us
Sean
3 years ago we left a very nice house with double garage and large drive in an area that wasnt our preference and no where near a village or a train station for the commute.
We swapped it for a house ( same value) that hadnt been touched in 30 years, no garage, and was in a real state, yet was in our perfect location, walk into a village with plenty of pubs, restaurants,cafes and shops, river walks for the dog, and importantly walking distance the the station for my daily 2 hour each way commute. We have been renovating bit by bit, some outsourced some diy, and we couldnt be happier, proving this is a better compromise for us
Sean
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