Going Off Of Ferrari?

Going Off Of Ferrari?

Author
Discussion

TedLeveTT

Original Poster:

160 posts

87 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
With all of the bad media about Ferrari lately, I find that I am slowly getting a stale image in my head of Ferrari. By "bad media" I'm mainly talking about the mileage roll backs that Ferrari have been accused of approving.

I used to be a huge fan of Ferrari. I admired there cars most of all (as do we all), but I also loved what the brand stood for. In my opinion, Ferrari's always carried a level of class and politely demanded respect and admiration on the road which I loved. If I ever reincarnated into a car (that's possible, yes) I would for sure be a 458.

In short, the more I seem to hear about Ferrari lately, the less I want to hear because I love their cars so much. I guess you could say its turning into a love hate relationship... I just don't feel that Ferrari offers as much as Mclaren and Lamborghini, and part of me want's Ferrari to disappear yet then when i look at their cars (exclude 812 SF) I would never wish for cars like that to stop being produced.

Lastly, just look at the 720S from Mclaren, it's an incredible work of art and it feels like its here before it's time, in my opinion. Then there's Ferrari, a rebodied F12 (essentially that's what it is) with a name stolen from the 60's.

I apologise if this thread makes no sense, I kind of lost the plot a little with it, I've had a long day, should've put more effort into the thread but time is pressed and I want to have a conversation about this topic...

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
I don't care about the mileage issue, but as a dyed-in-the-wool Ferrari enthusiast I die a little inside every time I hear the exhaust note of a Testarossa or a 355 and consider the noises made by their current offerings. If I had to buy a new supercar I'd buy a Lamborghini. If I had the money to buy whatever I wanted I'd buy an older Ferrari - better noise and more challenging to drive at lower speeds.

davek_964

8,796 posts

174 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
I've not read the details of the roll back issue but assume the clue is in the name.

Despite their history, I don't buy any of my cars because of any perception I have about the brand - and these days most businesses are about making money and keeping share holders happy regardless of what other promises they make.

I own a Ferrari because it looks gorgeous and drives better than it looks. That's all I really care about.

TedLeveTT

Original Poster:

160 posts

87 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
MitchT said:
I don't care about the mileage issue, but as a dyed-in-the-wool Ferrari enthusiast I die a little inside every time I hear the exhaust note of a Testarossa or a 355 and consider the noises made by their current offerings. If I had to buy a new supercar I'd buy a Lamborghini. If I had the money to buy whatever I wanted I'd buy an older Ferrari - better noise and more challenging to drive at lower speeds.
"current offerings" the turbocharged 488? laugh Yet again, form the looks point of view, its essentially a 458 with two turbos... Unfortunately, the Testerossa and 355 aren't really my era, although I appreciate them, immensely!

I agree with buying a Lamborghini. The Huarcan seems like such a perfect car, Italian styling and German engineering couldn't lead to anything less than perfection.

TedLeveTT

Original Poster:

160 posts

87 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
davek_964 said:
I've not read the details of the roll back issue but assume the clue is in the name.

Despite their history, I don't buy any of my cars because of any perception I have about the brand - and these days most businesses are about making money and keeping share holders happy regardless of what other promises they make.

I own a Ferrari because it looks gorgeous and drives better than it looks. That's all I really care about.
I do agree with you there. From your experience, would you say that Ferrari owners are particularly likeable? Ferrari owners seem to have picked up a somewhat snobbish reputation which puts me off further.

Nano2nd

3,426 posts

255 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
TedLeveTT said:
Ferrari owners seem to have picked up a somewhat snobbish reputation which puts me off further.
out of interest how many Ferrari owners are you talking about exactly? and of that number, how many have you personally interacted with to support your statement?

TedLeveTT

Original Poster:

160 posts

87 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Nano2nd said:
out of interest how many Ferrari owners are you talking about exactly? and of that number, how many have you personally interacted with to support your statement?
I can't put a number on it, of course, but it must be a relatively large amount considering it is a reputation I am talking about... Fair enough, I have only ever "interacted" with one Ferrari owner, who laughed at me because he opened his front boot of his 430 and I announced "Look, he's opening the engine bay". Not one of my proudest moments...

CanAm

9,114 posts

271 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Nano2nd said:
TedLeveTT said:
Ferrari owners seem to have picked up a somewhat snobbish reputation which puts me off further.
out of interest how many Ferrari owners are you talking about exactly? and of that number, how many have you personally interacted with to support your statement?
I was just getting out of my 20 year-old Caterham when a Dino 246 GTS came by. The driver stopped, and we had a very nice chat about our cars. So at least one not snobby at all. In fact I know 3 other Ferrari drivers and they all have Caterhams too!

garystoybox

768 posts

116 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but to me this posting reads as nothing but a wind-up. Some alleged shady goings on at a dealership in Florida and the 'brand' is tarnished forever. Thank goodness for the new emperor, all hail Mclaren. What a load of tosh!
"Oh I really wanted a Ferrari and have always aspired to do so...... oh hang on one or two may have been clocked....damn the 'brand' to oblivion".
In my opinion this is complete madness. I honestly don't know where this "Ferrari is Satan reincarnated" is coming from, unless of course the brand, its dealerships, its employees and owners are actually too evil for words.
It's only a car, buy the one you like best. I honestly don't think any alleged press commantry or online posting actually impact on the buying decisions of a supercar buyer. Well at least it doesn't for me anyway.....



Edited by garystoybox on Wednesday 22 March 23:41

tuscaneer

7,738 posts

224 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
TedLeveTT said:
I can't put a number on it, of course, but it must be a relatively large amount considering it is a reputation I am talking about... Fair enough, I have only ever "interacted" with one Ferrari owner, who laughed at me because he opened his front boot of his 430 and I announced "Look, he's opening the engine bay". Not one of my proudest moments...
to be fair i would have giggled a bit as well.....if that makes me snobby, oh well....but it strikes me as odd that you obviously know cars from the little you've posted above so why on earth would you spring up and announce "oh look, he's opening the engine bay!!!!"

sorry pal, this little incident didn't happen...



Camlet

1,132 posts

148 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
TedLeveTT said:
I apologise if this thread makes no sense, I kind of lost the plot a little with it, I've had a long day, should've put more effort into the thread but time is pressed and I want to have a conversation about this topic...
I'm a Ferrari fan, and while I'm unlikely to buy a Macca anytime soon, that doesn't stop me being critical of Ferrari or its products if I feel it's deserved. I also enjoy reading challenging opinions here even if I don't easily agree with them. But Ted, your apologies are accepted. Your thread makes no sense.

TedLeveTT

Original Poster:

160 posts

87 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
tuscaneer said:
to be fair i would have giggled a bit as well.....if that makes me snobby, oh well....but it strikes me as odd that you obviously know cars from the little you've posted above so why on earth would you spring up and announce "oh look, he's opening the engine bay!!!!"
Well funny enough, just five minutes prior I'd been looking in the engine bay, I distinctly remember the engine bay had been badly painted over darker red which had started crack and flake off.

I guess I just got so excited my fourteen year old brain couldn't keep up... laugh But the owner was not snobbish, I probably should have said that in my response. I don't have any friends that are into cars so I don't talk about these topics much so excitement and tiredness lead astray, leading to this thread...

TedLeveTT

Original Poster:

160 posts

87 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
Camlet said:
I'm a Ferrari fan, and while I'm unlikely to buy a Macca anytime soon, that doesn't stop me being critical of Ferrari or its products if I feel it's deserved. I also enjoy reading challenging opinions here even if I don't easily agree with them. But Ted, your apologies are accepted. Your thread makes no sense.
I agree, this thread does make no sense whatsoever. Don't get my wrong, I've always loved Ferrari, I'm resting my head on a Ferrari cushion right now... But I watch a lot of Salomondrin on YouTube and they seem to always be speaking about something new and negative about Ferrari so I guess this is where this thread has risen from...

I'm sure everyone can agree though, the 812 SuperFast wasn't particularly exciting and revolutionary compared to the 720s. But then that isn't just Ferrari, Porsche have also released the 991.2 GT3RS, that car came too soon in my opinion, yet again with little changes to its older brother...

AmoCS

1,142 posts

218 months

davek_964

8,796 posts

174 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
TedLeveTT said:
davek_964 said:
I've not read the details of the roll back issue but assume the clue is in the name.

Despite their history, I don't buy any of my cars because of any perception I have about the brand - and these days most businesses are about making money and keeping share holders happy regardless of what other promises they make.

I own a Ferrari because it looks gorgeous and drives better than it looks. That's all I really care about.
I do agree with you there. From your experience, would you say that Ferrari owners are particularly likeable? Ferrari owners seem to have picked up a somewhat snobbish reputation which puts me off further.
I guess my main experience of Ferrari owners is from forums and the supercar weekend. Based on those, I'd say that they are no more likely to be snobbish than anybody else.

Camlet

1,132 posts

148 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
TedLeveTT said:
Camlet said:
I'm a Ferrari fan, and while I'm unlikely to buy a Macca anytime soon, that doesn't stop me being critical of Ferrari or its products if I feel it's deserved. I also enjoy reading challenging opinions here even if I don't easily agree with them. But Ted, your apologies are accepted. Your thread makes no sense.
I agree, this thread does make no sense whatsoever. Don't get my wrong, I've always loved Ferrari, I'm resting my head on a Ferrari cushion right now... But I watch a lot of Salomondrin on YouTube and they seem to always be speaking about something new and negative about Ferrari so I guess this is where this thread has risen from...

I'm sure everyone can agree though, the 812 SuperFast wasn't particularly exciting and revolutionary compared to the 720s. But then that isn't just Ferrari, Porsche have also released the 991.2 GT3RS, that car came too soon in my opinion, yet again with little changes to its older brother...
Fair enough. But remember, Ferrari caters for many different customer segments, whereas McLaren and Lambo deliberately focus on far fewer. Lambo is part of VWG so can afford to focus. Its sister brands include Audi, Porsche, Bentley and Bugatti. McLaren is smaller, and naturally focused. The 812S is a clever development for people who badly wanted a tdf but missed the cut, or for a F12B owner wishing to upgrade, or someone who just wants a 800bhp GT for relatively little money. It will be hugely successful because Ferrari knows its segments and knows what will sell in each category. Would I buy a GTC4 T, no. But it will sell too. Just like the California does. And when another tdf comes along, thousands will plead to get one. Ferrari does marketing very well.

isaldiri

18,407 posts

167 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
TedLeveTT said:
Porsche have also released the 991.2 GT3RS, that car came too soon in my opinion, yet again with little changes to its older brother...
Interesting. Exactly when has Porsche released a 991.2 gt3rs?

TedLeveTT

Original Poster:

160 posts

87 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
Camlet said:
Fair enough. But remember, Ferrari caters for many different customer segments, whereas McLaren and Lambo deliberately focus on far fewer. Lambo is part of VWG so can afford to focus. Its sister brands include Audi, Porsche, Bentley and Bugatti. McLaren is smaller, and naturally focused. The 812S is a clever development for people who badly wanted a tdf but missed the cut, or for a F12B owner wishing to upgrade, or someone who just wants a 800bhp GT for relatively little money. It will be hugely successful because Ferrari knows its segments and knows what will sell in each category. Would I buy a GTC4 T, no. But it will sell too. Just like the California does. And when another tdf comes along, thousands will plead to get one. Ferrari does marketing very well.
I totally agree with that you're saying, its so correct its essentially fact rather than an opinion. And when you say "Ferrari does marketing very well" I agree, but I feel like Ferrari has a kind of obnoxious expectation that all of their cars will sell. My point is shown in the TDF/ 812SF example. The TDF is an undeniably brilliant car, but limited. So Ferrari sells all of their TDF's then comes out with the 812 which is similar to the TDF just to get more sales. I feel that they lack innovation... The 812 could've been much better/ innovative, or at least they could've also revealed a totally new car alongside the 812 which is immensely new, groundbreaking and filled with the latest in automotive technology... But no, Ferrari doesn't bother as they know that the 812 will sell perfectly fine and the brand will keep going...


fluffekins

160 posts

283 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
CanAm said:
was just getting out of my 20 year-old Caterham when a Dino 246 GTS came by. The driver stopped, and we had a very nice chat about our cars. So at least one not snobby at all. In fact I know 3 other Ferrari drivers and they all have Caterhams too!
I'm an owner, not a snob. A lifetime's hard work and some good fortune on the way enabled me to realise a boy hood and life long ambition. I attend many car shows I'm as interested in any classic, modified, America etc and enjoy talking to anyone who shares my passion for anything on wheels.

Didn't they used to slag of BMW drivers? now Audi? and apparently Ferrari.

While there are plenty very rich people in Ferrari circles, there are equally many that are just enthusiasts that have made sacrifices to own their pride and joy. What you drive or how big your bank balance is no barometer of whether someone some kind of tool.


Camlet

1,132 posts

148 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
TedLeveTT said:
Camlet said:
Fair enough. But remember, Ferrari caters for many different customer segments, whereas McLaren and Lambo deliberately focus on far fewer. Lambo is part of VWG so can afford to focus. Its sister brands include Audi, Porsche, Bentley and Bugatti. McLaren is smaller, and naturally focused. The 812S is a clever development for people who badly wanted a tdf but missed the cut, or for a F12B owner wishing to upgrade, or someone who just wants a 800bhp GT for relatively little money. It will be hugely successful because Ferrari knows its segments and knows what will sell in each category. Would I buy a GTC4 T, no. But it will sell too. Just like the California does. And when another tdf comes along, thousands will plead to get one. Ferrari does marketing very well.
I totally agree with that you're saying, its so correct its essentially fact rather than an opinion. And when you say "Ferrari does marketing very well" I agree, but I feel like Ferrari has a kind of obnoxious expectation that all of their cars will sell. My point is shown in the TDF/ 812SF example. The TDF is an undeniably brilliant car, but limited. So Ferrari sells all of their TDF's then comes out with the 812 which is similar to the TDF just to get more sales. I feel that they lack innovation... The 812 could've been much better/ innovative, or at least they could've also revealed a totally new car alongside the 812 which is immensely new, groundbreaking and filled with the latest in automotive technology... But no, Ferrari doesn't bother as they know that the 812 will sell perfectly fine and the brand will keep going...
Thanks. I'm still not getting your beef with Ferrari though. They're a business not a club. They're like any other owner of a powerbrand - Nike, Disney, Apple etc. They look to create/build products which sell in relatively high volumes and at high margin. It's not easy.

My journey with Ferrari has been just fine. Perhaps my expectations were lower than most. I've never had a problem. I was invited to buy a tdf because I've spent the past 20 years committed to Ferrari. Because I love the brand, the cars and through hard work and some luck I can afford to feed my addiction. I've never felt anything other than joy.

My first F car was a one year old 550M. I still have her, and from the moment I drove her, the addiction started in earnest. My first LE invitation was in 2010, with the 599 GTO. I still have her too. It's a big hardcore bruiser. I don't need schmoozing from Ferrari, I don't need fancy visits or visits to VIP lounges at car shows. Great for some, just doesn't float my boat. I wasn't offered a LaF Aperta and it doesn't bother me because I know there are customers way heavier than me, guys who spend a fortune on incredible cars like the XX and FXX K. I just need Ferrari to continue to build cars that tick my boxes.

I didn't buy an 812 because I have a tdf. If I didn't have the tdf, I would definitely have bought the 812. It's not innovative enough for you? The world's most powerful NA V12 road car, and which doesn't need 4WD? Why would they have revealed a new car alongside the 812? Every new launch is paced between different shows - Geneva, Frankfurt etc. Ferrari's pipeline is I'm sure chock full of product, including the next LE. They don't with new technology? What is the FXX K?

The business is fascinating, and it's hard for all of us to see the wood for the trees. Ferrari is a business and right up there among the very best. I remember a mate slamming them for selling soft teddy bears and computer mouse mats. But we agreed to disagree. A Dad/Mum who buys their daughter/son a mouse mat is possibly starting another long journey of discovery. VWG are also genius at developing their products and brands - look at Bugatti, Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini and Bentley; brilliant marketing.

Cheers.