Getting 'valuation' of a unique property
Discussion
So we've offered and accepted on a unique property (as probably seen on previous posts).
Conveyancing has been moving forward, with mortgage valuation being done. Mortgage valuation was 'free' as provided by our current lenders as part of a mortgage port - however he raised one seemingly answerable point about 'marketability'.
In essence, it LOOKS like the property has been on the market for 6 months, but this isn't strictly true. It was actually marketed end Aug 2016 then the vendors accepted an asking price offer from buyers who were yet to sell their house. They were given til beginning of January to sell theirs and then start exchange / completion, but didn't do so - so it was back open to offers again, and we offered and accepted mid-Feb.
However it is a completely unique property (Church conversion) and always in the back of our mind was the question 'how do we truly understand what it is worth...'?
Yes, to a certain extent, we can flip that by saying 'what's it worth TO US' and actually what we've offered is probably about right for that. But we are considering getting a proper independent valuation 'to be sure' - my only concern being it won't be that easy to get anywhere near an accurate figure!
We know what the current owners paid for the building (a pittance) but not what they've invested in it (its pretty high spec, plus work to the fabric of the building as well) so can't even value it as a % uplift, or a new build calculation.
TL;DR the missus is having minor collywobbles and we want to make sure we aren't overpaying for a house.
Next question, can anyone recommend a good independent valuer that covers North Essex and would help make sure of our numbers.
(Mortgage company valuation is one thing, but not only has it raised that minor question mark, I'm conscious that they are protecting Santander's interests not ours, and with us putting more £ in than the mortgage company, there's really very little risk for them...)
Conveyancing has been moving forward, with mortgage valuation being done. Mortgage valuation was 'free' as provided by our current lenders as part of a mortgage port - however he raised one seemingly answerable point about 'marketability'.
In essence, it LOOKS like the property has been on the market for 6 months, but this isn't strictly true. It was actually marketed end Aug 2016 then the vendors accepted an asking price offer from buyers who were yet to sell their house. They were given til beginning of January to sell theirs and then start exchange / completion, but didn't do so - so it was back open to offers again, and we offered and accepted mid-Feb.
However it is a completely unique property (Church conversion) and always in the back of our mind was the question 'how do we truly understand what it is worth...'?
Yes, to a certain extent, we can flip that by saying 'what's it worth TO US' and actually what we've offered is probably about right for that. But we are considering getting a proper independent valuation 'to be sure' - my only concern being it won't be that easy to get anywhere near an accurate figure!
We know what the current owners paid for the building (a pittance) but not what they've invested in it (its pretty high spec, plus work to the fabric of the building as well) so can't even value it as a % uplift, or a new build calculation.
TL;DR the missus is having minor collywobbles and we want to make sure we aren't overpaying for a house.
Next question, can anyone recommend a good independent valuer that covers North Essex and would help make sure of our numbers.
(Mortgage company valuation is one thing, but not only has it raised that minor question mark, I'm conscious that they are protecting Santander's interests not ours, and with us putting more £ in than the mortgage company, there's really very little risk for them...)
keirik said:
does it matter? If you think it's worth it and the mortgage valuation is anywhere near then don't worry. If it's in Essex it will double in value in 5 years anyway
It might matter if we need to sell again in 3-5 years for whatever reason, and are stuck with it.As much as I'd like the prediction of doubling in value in 5 years, I'm far from convinced. It's in north Essex, 15-20 minutes from a branch-line station which is still itself 1hr from Liverpool Street, so hardly 'prime' commuter territory. It is quite rural!
timetex said:
It might matter if we need to sell again in 3-5 years for whatever reason, and are stuck with it.
As much as I'd like the prediction of doubling in value in 5 years, I'm far from convinced. It's in north Essex, 15-20 minutes from a branch-line station which is still itself 1hr from Liverpool Street, so hardly 'prime' commuter territory. It is quite rural!
Sounds like Braintree?As much as I'd like the prediction of doubling in value in 5 years, I'm far from convinced. It's in north Essex, 15-20 minutes from a branch-line station which is still itself 1hr from Liverpool Street, so hardly 'prime' commuter territory. It is quite rural!
If the mortgage valuer hasn't downvalued it, then that suggests the price is within a sensible spectrum. The only other option is to pay for a further survey via a RICS valuer (which the vendors might get the hump about, if they think you're trying to find an excuse to get the price down), or to find a friendly local estate agent who might be able to give your their informal opinion (often other agents will have valued it before it came on the market).
The issue is that those sorts of properties appeal to quite a small market, often because the layouts are awkward and many people simply don't like living in them, so it's likely to be more difficult to sell than a more standard house of comparable size/location. I'm not familiar with the house or the area, but around here, church conversions tend to sit on the market for a while, in fact there is one in our village that's been on for at least a couple of years, and with several different agents. It looks nice inside and is in a good spot, but many other house of similar price have been sold in the village while that's sat there.
Nerves are perfectly normal when buying a house, so don't let us put you off if you love it, but if there is a high chance of you wanting to move again in the short/medium term then a more standard house might be a better bet, so it's worth careful consideration.
The issue is that those sorts of properties appeal to quite a small market, often because the layouts are awkward and many people simply don't like living in them, so it's likely to be more difficult to sell than a more standard house of comparable size/location. I'm not familiar with the house or the area, but around here, church conversions tend to sit on the market for a while, in fact there is one in our village that's been on for at least a couple of years, and with several different agents. It looks nice inside and is in a good spot, but many other house of similar price have been sold in the village while that's sat there.
Nerves are perfectly normal when buying a house, so don't let us put you off if you love it, but if there is a high chance of you wanting to move again in the short/medium term then a more standard house might be a better bet, so it's worth careful consideration.
Do you know how big it is? the per sq ft argument is valid but......I wouldn't look at new...
The way I would approach it is to see if there was a nice detached Georgian or Victorian house nearby for sale or recently sold and if of a similar size and had similar land.
Now the key is whether a church would attract a premium or a discount from this...and I can't answer that!
Speaking as a valuer, I have never done one a church conversion, so I don't know! I would ring a lot of local agents and ask a lot of questions. Whether or not it will appeal to the local market really depends on the local market.
As a bit of 'human' advice as opposed to property advice - if you are looking to buy it and very concerned about a future value, it's hard to say.
Character properties come into their own when you will love it and live there for year upon year upon year and lavish attention and love on it and make it a home, think about what it is worth to you, not it's value. If you think you'll get bored in 3-5 years, maybe something more conventional and easier to move on would be better.
As I said, I have no idea how to value it really, but the above is where i'd start looking. Sorry that's not much use
The way I would approach it is to see if there was a nice detached Georgian or Victorian house nearby for sale or recently sold and if of a similar size and had similar land.
Now the key is whether a church would attract a premium or a discount from this...and I can't answer that!
Speaking as a valuer, I have never done one a church conversion, so I don't know! I would ring a lot of local agents and ask a lot of questions. Whether or not it will appeal to the local market really depends on the local market.
As a bit of 'human' advice as opposed to property advice - if you are looking to buy it and very concerned about a future value, it's hard to say.
Character properties come into their own when you will love it and live there for year upon year upon year and lavish attention and love on it and make it a home, think about what it is worth to you, not it's value. If you think you'll get bored in 3-5 years, maybe something more conventional and easier to move on would be better.
As I said, I have no idea how to value it really, but the above is where i'd start looking. Sorry that's not much use
It must be somewhat reassuring that there was a previous asking price buyer.
The time on the market seems a strange thing to be worried about - perhaps that's a SE thing? Here in the NW some houses sit on the market for years.
You said you don't know what the current owners spent - was the work done recently? Wouldn't there be various guarantees etc which would give you an idea of the scope of the work and make it possible to estimate the cost?
The time on the market seems a strange thing to be worried about - perhaps that's a SE thing? Here in the NW some houses sit on the market for years.
You said you don't know what the current owners spent - was the work done recently? Wouldn't there be various guarantees etc which would give you an idea of the scope of the work and make it possible to estimate the cost?
Happy Jim said:
As a rough guide, look at a bunch of big new build high spec houses in your area, work out the ££per sq ft and compare it to yours.
Sure, that's a 'rough guide' but there aren't too many big new build high spec houses in the area - and even if there was, the comparison to a Victorian church is a difficult one!Inkyfingers said:
If the mortgage valuer hasn't downvalued it, then that suggests the price is within a sensible spectrum. The only other option is to pay for a further survey via a RICS valuer (which the vendors might get the hump about, if they think you're trying to find an excuse to get the price down), or to find a friendly local estate agent who might be able to give your their informal opinion (often other agents will have valued it before it came on the market).
The issue is that those sorts of properties appeal to quite a small market, often because the layouts are awkward and many people simply don't like living in them, so it's likely to be more difficult to sell than a more standard house of comparable size/location. I'm not familiar with the house or the area, but around here, church conversions tend to sit on the market for a while, in fact there is one in our village that's been on for at least a couple of years, and with several different agents. It looks nice inside and is in a good spot, but many other house of similar price have been sold in the village while that's sat there.
Nerves are perfectly normal when buying a house, so don't let us put you off if you love it, but if there is a high chance of you wanting to move again in the short/medium term then a more standard house might be a better bet, so it's worth careful consideration.
Yeah I'll be interested to know if he does down value it. I think in any event we would like to instruct a RICS valuer to be a little more certain, as this guy is working more for the mortgage provider than for us.The issue is that those sorts of properties appeal to quite a small market, often because the layouts are awkward and many people simply don't like living in them, so it's likely to be more difficult to sell than a more standard house of comparable size/location. I'm not familiar with the house or the area, but around here, church conversions tend to sit on the market for a while, in fact there is one in our village that's been on for at least a couple of years, and with several different agents. It looks nice inside and is in a good spot, but many other house of similar price have been sold in the village while that's sat there.
Nerves are perfectly normal when buying a house, so don't let us put you off if you love it, but if there is a high chance of you wanting to move again in the short/medium term then a more standard house might be a better bet, so it's worth careful consideration.
I think you're right about the nerves. It isn't the area we were initially looking at which is an added complication.
Vocal Minority said:
Do you know how big it is? the per sq ft argument is valid but......I wouldn't look at new...
The way I would approach it is to see if there was a nice detached Georgian or Victorian house nearby for sale or recently sold and if of a similar size and had similar land.
Now the key is whether a church would attract a premium or a discount from this...and I can't answer that!
Speaking as a valuer, I have never done one a church conversion, so I don't know! I would ring a lot of local agents and ask a lot of questions. Whether or not it will appeal to the local market really depends on the local market.
As a bit of 'human' advice as opposed to property advice - if you are looking to buy it and very concerned about a future value, it's hard to say.
Character properties come into their own when you will love it and live there for year upon year upon year and lavish attention and love on it and make it a home, think about what it is worth to you, not it's value. If you think you'll get bored in 3-5 years, maybe something more conventional and easier to move on would be better.
As I said, I have no idea how to value it really, but the above is where i'd start looking. Sorry that's not much use
It is some use, given that even as a valuer, it presents a challenge to you!The way I would approach it is to see if there was a nice detached Georgian or Victorian house nearby for sale or recently sold and if of a similar size and had similar land.
Now the key is whether a church would attract a premium or a discount from this...and I can't answer that!
Speaking as a valuer, I have never done one a church conversion, so I don't know! I would ring a lot of local agents and ask a lot of questions. Whether or not it will appeal to the local market really depends on the local market.
As a bit of 'human' advice as opposed to property advice - if you are looking to buy it and very concerned about a future value, it's hard to say.
Character properties come into their own when you will love it and live there for year upon year upon year and lavish attention and love on it and make it a home, think about what it is worth to you, not it's value. If you think you'll get bored in 3-5 years, maybe something more conventional and easier to move on would be better.
As I said, I have no idea how to value it really, but the above is where i'd start looking. Sorry that's not much use
The agents particulars do have a 'size' on them, and its just over 3200sq/ft (305sq/m). The same money in the local area would likely buy a slightly larger more conventional property, or something with equestrian facilities, so there is (as there should be) an uplift reflecting the quality of the conversion and the unique nature of the building, but I also get that the market for such a property is likely to be smaller... so does this impact 'VALUE' or just the time it would possibly take to resell?
MTech535 said:
Sushi you have made an offer which had been accepted an now your are wondering how much it is worth?
I think you have got things the wrong way round.
I would think that given they already had an asking price offer that it is probably worth what you have agreed with them.
Haha yes. Well there's the question of how much its worth to us (and its worth the price we've offered, we think!) but also how much it is worth to everyone else.I think you have got things the wrong way round.
I would think that given they already had an asking price offer that it is probably worth what you have agreed with them.
I am pleased there was an asking price offer (we've offered and accepted a fair chunk under) but since the people who made that offer were never in a position to properly proceed it does become somewhat of a moot point. I could offer you £10m for your house tomorrow, on the basis that I sell mine for £9m. You may accept, but if I can't sell mine, the offer is a little meaningless. Anyone who truly wanted that property would have dropped theirs by a few % and renegotiated with the vendor, or stretched their borrowing just a tad more to get it... no?
Sheepshanks said:
It must be somewhat reassuring that there was a previous asking price buyer.
The time on the market seems a strange thing to be worried about - perhaps that's a SE thing? Here in the NW some houses sit on the market for years.
You said you don't know what the current owners spent - was the work done recently? Wouldn't there be various guarantees etc which would give you an idea of the scope of the work and make it possible to estimate the cost?
Yes, the work is just being finished! They will have spent a LOT on it (Rako lighting controls, Siemens appliances in the kitchen, bespoke wood and copper (!) staircases etc.) The roof has been off, the floor dug out and redone, some new windows cut in, new glazing (to original style/spec), underfloor heating and air source pump.The time on the market seems a strange thing to be worried about - perhaps that's a SE thing? Here in the NW some houses sit on the market for years.
You said you don't know what the current owners spent - was the work done recently? Wouldn't there be various guarantees etc which would give you an idea of the scope of the work and make it possible to estimate the cost?
They were going to stay, but decided they liked the project so much they want to do another, so it was never done with 'develop and resell' in mind.
Yeah, I think a RICS valuation is probably a good idea and try and keep the missus from getting too jittery!
timetex said:
Haha yes. Well there's the question of how much its worth to us (and its worth the price we've offered, we think!) but also how much it is worth to everyone else.
I am pleased there was an asking price offer (we've offered and accepted a fair chunk under) but since the people who made that offer were never in a position to properly proceed it does become somewhat of a moot point. I could offer you £10m for your house tomorrow, on the basis that I sell mine for £9m. You may accept, but if I can't sell mine, the offer is a little meaningless. Anyone who truly wanted that property would have dropped theirs by a few % and renegotiated with the vendor, or stretched their borrowing just a tad more to get it... no?
You are the sort of buyer everyone wants to run a mile from. Your word seems to be worth nothing.I am pleased there was an asking price offer (we've offered and accepted a fair chunk under) but since the people who made that offer were never in a position to properly proceed it does become somewhat of a moot point. I could offer you £10m for your house tomorrow, on the basis that I sell mine for £9m. You may accept, but if I can't sell mine, the offer is a little meaningless. Anyone who truly wanted that property would have dropped theirs by a few % and renegotiated with the vendor, or stretched their borrowing just a tad more to get it... no?
Valuers aren't magicians, they can't produce a valuation out of thin air. They have to rely on 1) previous valuations for that property with an index-linked update, 2) valuations of similar properties nearby, 3) valuations of similar properties elsewhere with an adjustment for area.
In the absence of the first of the above, the mortgage valuer will have used a combination of the second two to find his valuation.
Now that there has been a valuation made for this house, every valuer from now on will use the easiest method, number 1 from above. I wouldn't bother paying for another valuation yourself, whoever you get to do it, it'll be based on the existing valuation that you already have.
In the absence of the first of the above, the mortgage valuer will have used a combination of the second two to find his valuation.
Now that there has been a valuation made for this house, every valuer from now on will use the easiest method, number 1 from above. I wouldn't bother paying for another valuation yourself, whoever you get to do it, it'll be based on the existing valuation that you already have.
julian64 said:
You are the sort of buyer everyone wants to run a mile from. Your word seems to be worth nothing.
No, that's harsh. We negotiated a price we were OK with., although we were aware at the time it was tough to 'value' somewhere unique. Mortgage valuer has raised some questions (not us) which are based around marketability of the property should it need to be resold again, which obviously is also linked with value. So it has reopened the questions we initially had around 'value', which we had already discussed with the estate agent and purchaser.So this isn't, as you may think, us going back on our 'word' - but simply reacting to interim 'independent' advice.
Of course if the valuer says to the mortgage company 'be ware of lending on it' then we'd be stupid not to reconsider our position at this point. I can't believe you'd suggest it would be sensible or realistic to go ahead with the purchase just to stick to our 'word'.
For our own protection, I think it prudent to take some more detailed advice (more detailed than a basic mortgage valuation, who isn't acting in our interests but those of the lender) to properly understand the position. We aren't chancers, the mortgage is fully agreed 'subject to valuation' but if the valuation doesn't support our offer then we need another conversation with the vendor.
Unless you really ARE suggesting we go ahead and buy it anyway? Everybody makes offers subject to being able to get a mortgage on a property, surely!
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