Grade 2 listed, would you?
Discussion
Looked at this house recently.
Before we got there we thought maybe £50k would fix it, afterwards we reckoned £100k is more like it. So, roof has seen better days, we thought £20-25k?. Wooden Sashes are knackered and there's 10 of them, repair or replace along with around 10 UPVC windows/doors that may or may not have been there when it was listed, potentially £25k to sort that lot out. Various ceilings sagging, floors uneven, £15k? Wiring ancient £10k? Oil heating old £10k? Brickwork needs repairs, plenty of cement pointing in the past, £15k? The enforcement notices could come thick and fast when a conservation officer gets involved, plus the 2 year building site to deal with. Is it worth it for a house that probably wouldn't be worth more than it ended up costing?
Before we got there we thought maybe £50k would fix it, afterwards we reckoned £100k is more like it. So, roof has seen better days, we thought £20-25k?. Wooden Sashes are knackered and there's 10 of them, repair or replace along with around 10 UPVC windows/doors that may or may not have been there when it was listed, potentially £25k to sort that lot out. Various ceilings sagging, floors uneven, £15k? Wiring ancient £10k? Oil heating old £10k? Brickwork needs repairs, plenty of cement pointing in the past, £15k? The enforcement notices could come thick and fast when a conservation officer gets involved, plus the 2 year building site to deal with. Is it worth it for a house that probably wouldn't be worth more than it ended up costing?
As the saying goes, "If you're not embarrassed by your offer price, then it probably isn't low enough"!
Just come out the other side of a similar project, G2 Listed, total refurb. My advice is add at least 25% on to whatever you estimate, and have at least that again as emergency funds. Make your offer with that in mind.
Having said that, living in a characterful old building makes it all worth it.
Just come out the other side of a similar project, G2 Listed, total refurb. My advice is add at least 25% on to whatever you estimate, and have at least that again as emergency funds. Make your offer with that in mind.
Having said that, living in a characterful old building makes it all worth it.
Good luck with this project if you go for it. I think your back of an envelope guesstimates is realistic apart from the roof, which depending on the covering (slate?) may be under budget. You won't know the full extent of costs until it's uncovered as there may be timber repairs.
We've done a recent resto to a listed house and were not far out with our estimated costs, but don't forget the fitting out of kitchen and bathrooms adds up, as does decorating even if you do it yourself as I did.
If you've done a listed property before you'll know the pitfalls, but tread carefully and ideally get the officer responsible for this property on side early on if possible. It's unlikely they will start putting enforcement notices on you if you show you are working sympathetically towards a good restoration. Their main concern is to get the property watertight and visually correct outside, so the upvc windows may be an issue. Before replacing sash windows try Ventrolla as they do good repairs which are cheaper than replacing and preferable to the listings officers in my experience.
Join the Listed Property Owners Club, they are a mine of useful info and have a good advice team at the end of the telephone. We saved a fortune on VAT with their initial advice.
Looks a beautiful house, so crack on...
We've done a recent resto to a listed house and were not far out with our estimated costs, but don't forget the fitting out of kitchen and bathrooms adds up, as does decorating even if you do it yourself as I did.
If you've done a listed property before you'll know the pitfalls, but tread carefully and ideally get the officer responsible for this property on side early on if possible. It's unlikely they will start putting enforcement notices on you if you show you are working sympathetically towards a good restoration. Their main concern is to get the property watertight and visually correct outside, so the upvc windows may be an issue. Before replacing sash windows try Ventrolla as they do good repairs which are cheaper than replacing and preferable to the listings officers in my experience.
Join the Listed Property Owners Club, they are a mine of useful info and have a good advice team at the end of the telephone. We saved a fortune on VAT with their initial advice.
Looks a beautiful house, so crack on...
Depends why you want the house really. If you want it as an investment with renovations adding value above and beyond the original cost, then forget about it. If you want it because you've fallen in love with it and intend it to be your forever home or similar, then go for it if you can afford the house, costs of the works seen and unseen (it's not that unlikely that almost as much as the currently planned works will be uncovered once you've started...) and the upkeep. I say these as the owner of a grade 2 listed pile myself. It's amazing but potentially ruinous!
blade7 said:
Here's a side view. The roof is slate, looking at the size of it is my £25k estimate optimistic?
Maybe a touch. Looks fairly solid with no dipping of the hips. A good overhaul would probably do the job, and slate can be used again. Scaffold would be a big cost , i'd guess 10-15k if the frame is solid.It's not our ideal location, but we probably couldn't afford it if it was. I don't think there'd be much profit in it at the end, and I really don't want to renovate a house for someone else. My Mrs loves the look of it but thinks we'd be mad to take it on, anyway the estate agent choked on our first offer 
.
.jason61c said:
uneven floors and sagging cealings just because its old.
I can't see much wrong with the roof? For a price guide, we've a 170sq m roof that's had concrete tiles put on when the thatch was removed. Its going to cost about 12k all in to slate it.
Nothing wrong with old oil boilers, they're really reliable and efficient. Even a new oil boiler is only about 2k.
That house looks lovely.
I can't see much wrong with the roof? For a price guide, we've a 170sq m roof that's had concrete tiles put on when the thatch was removed. Its going to cost about 12k all in to slate it.
Nothing wrong with old oil boilers, they're really reliable and efficient. Even a new oil boiler is only about 2k.
That house looks lovely.
If it's the house you've dreamed of, do it.
I did the same back in 2011, got a grade 2 listed for well under market value that needed a mix of cosmetic work and some major surgery in places.
Have renovated it over the years, probably put about £80-£90k into it over 6 years but that includes things like a new bathroom and kitchen that most people would put in over time in any house you buy.
It wasn't an investment, it was a house for life but for a recent remortgage, the valuation put it at more than I'd paid for plus renovation costs so these things can work out not to be a money pit.
My advice would be to get a full building survey, look at the estimates and prioritise the works and crack on.
Also, start a thread and make sure to keep it updated better than I have
I did the same back in 2011, got a grade 2 listed for well under market value that needed a mix of cosmetic work and some major surgery in places.
Have renovated it over the years, probably put about £80-£90k into it over 6 years but that includes things like a new bathroom and kitchen that most people would put in over time in any house you buy.
It wasn't an investment, it was a house for life but for a recent remortgage, the valuation put it at more than I'd paid for plus renovation costs so these things can work out not to be a money pit.
My advice would be to get a full building survey, look at the estimates and prioritise the works and crack on.
Also, start a thread and make sure to keep it updated better than I have
s who seem to want to delay the process.jason61c said:
Is anything actually wrong with it though? If you don't live in an old house, you might think stuff needs doing when it doesn't.
Depends on your definition of wrong really. As I said the windows and wiring definitely need doing sooner rather than later,probably the heating too. I renovated a Victorian cottage from top to bottom recently so I know a bit about old houses. Though this house needs a lot more work and it being listed doesn't help.stewjohnst said:
My advice would be to get a full building survey, look at the estimates and prioritise the works and crack on.
Also, start a thread and make sure to keep it updated better than I have
I think we're a long way from agreeing a price yet, and TBH I think a lot of surveys are money for old rope. I suppose there's good and bad surveyors. As suggested I had planned a chat with the local conservation officer to sound them out.Also, start a thread and make sure to keep it updated better than I have
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