Electrical supply for current-hungry appliances...
Discussion
200Plus Club said:
I'd be hoping that with 6 months left of a 4 year (electrical?) apprenticeship you knew more than "its how my boss does it?
that's quite scary.
you should be able to work out the maximum length of cable and its size, for a given maximum current demand and the voltage drop you'll get as a result, and if that complies with the wiring regs on max permissible voltage drop. you should also know that where that cable runs, and how warm it is, and how its fixed affects what size it is!
out of interest, what level of college course are you doing? my advise is get a good guide to the wiring regs, and how to size cables etc.
I can easily do cable calcs, just there's no information in this post to be able to do so. I'm just throwing a rough guide out there that it'll probably end up being 4 or 6mm. Because of the factors you posted and more I just put a rough guide to method of installation regarding how the God of Electrickery was just banging things into an isolator rather than giving defines on any cable sizing. Can see what you thought I was saying, apologies for not making myself clear. Level 3 c+g at college btw. that's quite scary.
you should be able to work out the maximum length of cable and its size, for a given maximum current demand and the voltage drop you'll get as a result, and if that complies with the wiring regs on max permissible voltage drop. you should also know that where that cable runs, and how warm it is, and how its fixed affects what size it is!
out of interest, what level of college course are you doing? my advise is get a good guide to the wiring regs, and how to size cables etc.
And I know the difference between current and voltage too, and that less than 32a can indeed kill you dead, just thought it added a bit of drama to push a point. Thanks for the advice though, no sarcasm at all, I always appreciate an opportunity to learn.
Edited by inabox on Wednesday 15th November 07:49
Edited by inabox on Wednesday 15th November 08:29
Op I used to run a commercial laundry.
The Miele professional stuff is ?lovely but at least twice the price if other commercial kit, it's better but not twice the price and I wouldn't consider it unless you are going to be using the machines 24bhours a day.
As someone else has said getting 3vphase in is thousands of pounds. The cheapest I've had it done is 3.5k, more commonly 7-8k, but if you don't have 3 phase near you then it will be tens of thousands. I would also see little benefit.
If it were me I'd get a sparky in to wire a single phase 32amp wasger, but I'd use a gas dryer if you have gas at the property, electric dryers are very very expensive to run. Gas is more effective and cheaper,albeit needing more maintenance (there is a risk of fire).
The Miele professional stuff is ?lovely but at least twice the price if other commercial kit, it's better but not twice the price and I wouldn't consider it unless you are going to be using the machines 24bhours a day.
As someone else has said getting 3vphase in is thousands of pounds. The cheapest I've had it done is 3.5k, more commonly 7-8k, but if you don't have 3 phase near you then it will be tens of thousands. I would also see little benefit.
If it were me I'd get a sparky in to wire a single phase 32amp wasger, but I'd use a gas dryer if you have gas at the property, electric dryers are very very expensive to run. Gas is more effective and cheaper,albeit needing more maintenance (there is a risk of fire).
inabox said:
I can easily do cable calcs, just there's no information in this post to be able to do so. I'm just throwing a rough guide out there that it'll probably end up being 4 or 6mm. Because of the factors you posted and more I just put a rough guide to method of installation regarding how the God of Electrickery was just banging things into an isolator rather than giving defines on any cable sizing. Can see what you thought I was saying, apologies for not making myself clear. Level 3 c+g at college btw.
And I know the difference between current and voltage too, and that less than 32a can indeed kill you dead, just thought it added a bit of drama to push a point. Thanks for the advice though, no sarcasm at all, I always appreciate an opportunity to learn.
fair play. PH is great for amateur or "self taught" electricians at times who quite often chuck in rule of thumb stuff thats all, about how to do stuff, and sometimes i've seen quite scary or dangerous advice using generic rules that bear no resemblance to safe working. good luck to you in your career, keep learning and my advice- dont just stick at being a jobbing sparky, if you can move onwards and upwards go for it. And I know the difference between current and voltage too, and that less than 32a can indeed kill you dead, just thought it added a bit of drama to push a point. Thanks for the advice though, no sarcasm at all, I always appreciate an opportunity to learn.
Edited by inabox on Wednesday 15th November 07:49
Edited by inabox on Wednesday 15th November 08:29
AlrightYouns said:
3 phase is not permitted in a domestic property in the UK.
That is nonsense. I'm currently involved in the reinstatement works following an electrical fire to a large house, where there is evidence of overloading. The DNO will not reinstate the original single phase and are insisting on three phase.
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Op I used to run a commercial laundry. The Miele professional stuff is ?lovely but at least twice the price if other commercial kit, it's better but not twice the price and I wouldn't consider it unless you are going to be using the machines 24bhours a day.
Fair enough... can you give an indication of prices on that kit? Miele website doesn't disclose pricing. I do tend to have machines running most of the day, and it knocks hell out of normal domestic machines, which rarely last long. Not keen on gas dryers due to fire risk, even if they're cheaper to run.I'll need to look into whether 3ph is available nearby. As it is, the existing single-phase supply tends to be running fairly near maximum capacity - my wife's business means there's a lot of lighting in use much of the time.
RoverP6B said:
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Op I used to run a commercial laundry. The Miele professional stuff is ?lovely but at least twice the price if other commercial kit, it's better but not twice the price and I wouldn't consider it unless you are going to be using the machines 24bhours a day.
Fair enough... can you give an indication of prices on that kit? Miele website doesn't disclose pricing. I do tend to have machines running most of the day, and it knocks hell out of normal domestic machines, which rarely last long. Not keen on gas dryers due to fire risk, even if they're cheaper to run.I'll need to look into whether 3ph is available nearby. As it is, the existing single-phase supply tends to be running fairly near maximum capacity - my wife's business means there's a lot of lighting in use much of the time.
Ganglandboss said:
AlrightYouns said:
3 phase is not permitted in a domestic property in the UK.
That is nonsense. I'm currently involved in the reinstatement works following an electrical fire to a large house, where there is evidence of overloading. The DNO will not reinstate the original single phase and are insisting on three phase.I'm out of this thread anyway, excellent amount of arm chair electricians spouting nonsense.
Eta: just re read your post 3 phase for supply absolutely but you can't wire a laundry machine to the supply and the circuits will be single phase split from the supply.
Jambo85 said:
AlrightYouns said:
3 phase is not permitted in a domestic property in the UK.
AlrightYouns said:
Maximum one three-phase connection up to 70kVA (100a) to supply property only.
?
I'm out anyway.. Armchair experts are in again
AlrightYouns said:
To supply the property yes, not to run a commercial laundry machine!
Ah I see what you mean, so you can have multiple single phase circuits on different phases but you can't have any 3 phase circuits distributed around the property? Not something I know the rules about myself but your previous posts seemed contradictory until you explained.
AlrightYouns said:
Ganglandboss said:
AlrightYouns said:
3 phase is not permitted in a domestic property in the UK.
That is nonsense. I'm currently involved in the reinstatement works following an electrical fire to a large house, where there is evidence of overloading. The DNO will not reinstate the original single phase and are insisting on three phase.I'm out of this thread anyway, excellent amount of arm chair electricians spouting nonsense.
Eta: just re read your post 3 phase for supply absolutely but you can't wire a laundry machine to the supply and the circuits will be single phase split from the supply.
The size of a property does not dictate whether it is domestic or light commercial; it is its use that matters.
I'm getting more and more confused. Is it the size of the property or the use it's in that dictates the availability or otherwise of 3-phase? My wife does run a small business here, albeit not one directly related to the needs I have previously described. If I could run a single machine off a phase inverter, I suppose that would help, but I'm guessing it still won't work off a standard 3-pin socket!
The size and nature of the supply will be determined by the customer's requirements. Anybody can have a three phase and neutral (TP&N) supply, but you will pay more (both in terms of the installation cost and the standing charge). For larger supplies though, the District Network Operator (DNO) will only install TP&N.
There is no harm in enquiring, but I would expect a phase converter (or single phase appliance even) would be cheaper than a new TP&N supply (assuming you have sufficient capacity as it stands).
There is no harm in enquiring, but I would expect a phase converter (or single phase appliance even) would be cheaper than a new TP&N supply (assuming you have sufficient capacity as it stands).
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