Heating on all day?

[Sheepshanks]

Alucidnation said:

Phil. said:

Alucidnation said:

365 weather comp.

What’s that?

Our heating is left on all year and the boiler is weather compensated.

The boiler heats up depending on how cold it is outside

The Worcester Wave controller on the boiler in our daughter's house has a weather comp mode - but it runs the pump 24/7 which seems somewhat bonkers. Worcester says it has to do that as it's constantly comparing the flow temp, internal actual temp, internal required temp and external temp and the controller modulates the boiler to keep the flow temp at a suitable level.

However "suitable level" for the flow temp seems to be luke warm and the house wasn't warm enough for two little kids so she reverted to a non-compensated mode.

[Sheepshanks]

jmorgan said:

My boiler is a condensing boiler so runs at around 50-55 deg C on the return as I understand that is the best for the boiler being most efficient. Rather than the 60-70 it was set at.

You're right, but the Worcester Bosch accredited installers who put ours in had no idea about that. They put the boiler on max and their aim was the get the return temp to match the flow temp as quickly as possible. I showed them the user guide where it suggests setting the flow temp at 1.5 (out of 6) and they looked stunned.

[Hoofy]

I only need it on in the morning. Don't need it on all day even if I'm working from home all day. And when I'm out and return, it doesn't take long to warm up (1940s house, no special insulation).

Edited by Hoofy on Friday 24th November 10:42

[jmorgan]

Sheepshanks said:

jmorgan said:

My boiler is a condensing boiler so runs at around 50-55 deg C on the return as I understand that is the best for the boiler being most efficient. Rather than the 60-70 it was set at.

You're right, but the Worcester Bosch accredited installers who put ours in had no idea about that. They put the boiler on max and their aim was the get the return temp to match the flow temp as quickly as possible. I showed them the user guide where it suggests setting the flow temp at 1.5 (out of 6) and they looked stunned.

It was our plumber that suggested we tried it, with no guarantees but explained the method and said to see which way the volume used went. Suppose luck of the draw with plumbers. Had a few bits of work done now and they are good.

[DKL]

We don't usually have our heating on the usual "winter" thermostat timer settings until December but this year with the arrival of DKL junior 2 3 weeks ago I was persuaded that a warm baby sleeps better so I relented and just put the heating on.
So we have a generally warmer house but my feeling is that the boiler is firing less than usual as the house doesn't get so cold inbetween. Ours is a really old (1650) thatched house so we don't do cavity walls or double glazing although we do have secondary glazing and the loft insulation is ok (and then there's about 6' of thatch in places).
I shall be interested to see if the oil tank level tallies with my hunch as the winter progresses.

[Sheepshanks]

jmorgan said:

It was our plumber that suggested we tried it, with no guarantees but explained the method and said to see which way the volume used went. Suppose luck of the draw with plumbers. Had a few bits of work done now and they are good.

Well the boiler won't run in condensing mode unless the return temp is less than 57C. If you're aiming for that then the system may need to have bigger rads to drop the temperature enough from whatever the flow temp is or to give out enough heat if the flow temp is lower (radiators usually expect 75C incoming water temp).

Having said that, CH fitters will argue that running in condensing mode doesn't make much difference to efficiency.

[justinio]

We've got a shonky old boiler from the 80's and it takes an age to get the house up to temperature. As a result, we leave it on from 0700-2200, and just control the temperature via the thermostat.

We should probably replace the boiler, but it's over 30 years old and never really misses a beat The only things that have packed up in the last 5 years, have been the 2 way control valves.

In our last house we were there for 10 years and went through 2 combi boilers (Worchester Bosch and a Gloworm).

Having said that, it would be nice to have the house heat up quickly if needed.

[hotchy]

I love these threads, one thing that confuses me. You can actually have your house set to certain temps. I have an on off button. On, too warm and I hit off. Think itll be great to have a house set to not only stay warm, just not too warm.

[iambigred]

Everyone's house is going to be different, but until you measure it you're not going to know! I've set up a script to capture the heating status and temperature from my Nest thermostat every 5 minutes. The heating profile of my house 'new build' constructed in 2005 looks like this:



This is from yesterday (NE England) which was cold, especially overnight/this morning, at 8am it was 1 degree outside with a frost on the car windscreen. As you can see there is a big block of heating in the afternoon when the Nest decides to turn itself on at 3pm just to reach the set temperature for returning home at around 6pm. During this time the temperature increases at a rate of 1 degree per hour, which I think is pretty poor. It then ticks over overnight (19.5 degrees as we have a small child), with each burst of heating maintaining the temperature for around 1 hr until it drops again.

Even though the temperature reaches 21.5 degrees the house still feels cold (especially downstairs) due to the cold laminate floor and objects in the room not heating up at the same rate as the air temperature.

I think my rads are undersized, how long would you expect it to take to increase your house by 1 degree in November?

I'll amend the schedule to maintain 18.5 during the day and see how this impacts the overall comfort of the house and duration of heating.

[Sheepshanks]

iambigred said:

As you can see there is a big block of heating in the afternoon when the Nest decides to turn itself on at 3pm just to reach the set temperature for returning home at around 6pm. During this time the temperature increases at a rate of 1 degree per hour, which I think is pretty poor.

Is the red the boiler actually running? In a modern house like yours you must have a modulating boiler so it should absolutely chuck heat into the rads and they should get hot very quickly. Have you got the flow temp (boiler 'stat) turned down?

[Dave_ST220]

iambigred said:

Everyone's house is going to be different, but until you measure it you're not going to know! I've set up a script to capture the heating status and temperature from my Nest thermostat every 5 minutes. The heating profile of my house 'new build' constructed in 2005 looks like this:



This is from yesterday (NE England) which was cold, especially overnight/this morning, at 8am it was 1 degree outside with a frost on the car windscreen. As you can see there is a big block of heating in the afternoon when the Nest decides to turn itself on at 3pm just to reach the set temperature for returning home at around 6pm. During this time the temperature increases at a rate of 1 degree per hour, which I think is pretty poor. It then ticks over overnight (19.5 degrees as we have a small child), with each burst of heating maintaining the temperature for around 1 hr until it drops again.

Even though the temperature reaches 21.5 degrees the house still feels cold (especially downstairs) due to the cold laminate floor and objects in the room not heating up at the same rate as the air temperature.

I think my rads are undersized, how long would you expect it to take to increase your house by 1 degree in November?

I'll amend the schedule to maintain 18.5 during the day and see how this impacts the overall comfort of the house and duration of heating.

Something not right there! If I set ours to 21.5 it will get there within an hour, easily. I'd also be walking around in shorts & a T shirt!! What size property? Is the heating zoned? Is the water (tank?) being heated at the same time as the heating coming on? We certainly don't need to have the heating come on at 3pm to get the desired temp for 6pm!!! (~2000sq/ft 1970's build so no insulated slab apart from the extended parts but all walls have been thermo boarded, cavity walls insulated & loft throughout up to current spec(270mm?). New boiler & unvented system.)

[WinstonWolf]

AndStilliRise said:

Googling gives different answers however would anyone know if it is cheaper to leave the heating on all day, not during the night, as apposed to heating the house when occupied i.e. after school/work?

I run mine 24/7 from the first cold snap until April/May. Costs me about £100 more per year than running it timed. Worth every single penny

[iambigred]

Dave_ST220 said:

Something not right there! If I set ours to 21.5 it will get there within an hour, easily. I'd also be walking around in shorts & a T shirt!! What size property? Is the heating zoned? Is the water (tank?) being heated at the same time as the heating coming on? We certainly don't need to have the heating come on at 3pm to get the desired temp for 6pm!!! (~2000sq/ft 1970's build so no insulated slab apart from the extended parts but all walls have been thermo boarded, cavity walls insulated & loft throughout up to current spec(270mm?). New boiler & unvented system.)

I agree, my parents old 1920's house heats up much faster and they've got huge rooms compared to my modern house with low ceilings. I think it's around 1300 sq ft, 4 bed.

HW is only on in the morning and it definitely isn't bypassing the rads via the cylinder as the cylinder return pipes aren't hot. Only a single zone CH but TRVs on all rads except the one in the hallway and towel rail. I've tried meticulously balancing the rads which I think gave some improvement downstairs but not much. The boiler is 2 years old and appropriately sized for the size of properly (24kw Worcester Bosch) and temp is set to nearly max (80 degrees, max is 82), system was also powerflushed when new boiler installed.

[Sheepshanks]

iambigred said:

HW is only on in the morning and it definitely isn't bypassing the rads via the cylinder as the cylinder return pipes aren't hot. Only a single zone CH but TRVs on all rads except the one in the hallway and towel rail. I've tried meticulously balancing the rads which I think gave some improvement downstairs but not much. The boiler is 2 years old and appropriately sized for the size of properly (24kw Worcester Bosch) and temp is set to nearly max (80 degrees, max is 82), system was also powerflushed when new boiler installed.

Do the radiators get stinking hot? What sort of size is the house?

You mentioned you think they're too small - certainly when daughters house had a complete new system (inc a 28kW WB boiler) the calculators the fitters used produced radiator sizes that seemed ridiculously small. Apart from anything else, I thought they'd loo stupid in a 1970's house and with her having little kids I didn't want them red hot. So they upped all the rad sizes.

Her horribly built 3 bed open plan semi gets warm very quickly. She has a 28kW WB boiler. But the boiler max output is unlikely to be an issue - mostly it'll be running modulated down.

[jmorgan]

Sheepshanks said:

jmorgan said:

It was our plumber that suggested we tried it, with no guarantees but explained the method and said to see which way the volume used went. Suppose luck of the draw with plumbers. Had a few bits of work done now and they are good.

Well the boiler won't run in condensing mode unless the return temp is less than 57C. If you're aiming for that then the system may need to have bigger rads to drop the temperature enough from whatever the flow temp is or to give out enough heat if the flow temp is lower (radiators usually expect 75C incoming water temp).

Having said that, CH fitters will argue that running in condensing mode doesn't make much difference to efficiency.

Previous plumber installed the first boiler and he was a plumb. This plumber suggested it and bills in comparison are sameish if not lower. I should add he said to try it and see what happened and it does work for my house and boiler.

[hyphen]

hotchy said:

I love these threads, one thing that confuses me. You can actually have your house set to certain temps. I have an on off button. On, too warm and I hit off. Think itll be great to have a house set to not only stay warm, just not too warm.

[PDP76]

hyphen said:

hotchy said:

I love these threads, one thing that confuses me. You can actually have your house set to certain temps. I have an on off button. On, too warm and I hit off. Think itll be great to have a house set to not only stay warm, just not too warm.

Someone introduce this poster to thermostats and how they work.

[Dave_ST220]

iambigred said:

Dave_ST220 said:

Something not right there! If I set ours to 21.5 it will get there within an hour, easily. I'd also be walking around in shorts & a T shirt!! What size property? Is the heating zoned? Is the water (tank?) being heated at the same time as the heating coming on? We certainly don't need to have the heating come on at 3pm to get the desired temp for 6pm!!! (~2000sq/ft 1970's build so no insulated slab apart from the extended parts but all walls have been thermo boarded, cavity walls insulated & loft throughout up to current spec(270mm?). New boiler & unvented system.)

I agree, my parents old 1920's house heats up much faster and they've got huge rooms compared to my modern house with low ceilings. I think it's around 1300 sq ft, 4 bed.

HW is only on in the morning and it definitely isn't bypassing the rads via the cylinder as the cylinder return pipes aren't hot. Only a single zone CH but TRVs on all rads except the one in the hallway and towel rail. I've tried meticulously balancing the rads which I think gave some improvement downstairs but not much. The boiler is 2 years old and appropriately sized for the size of properly (24kw Worcester Bosch) and temp is set to nearly max (80 degrees, max is 82), system was also powerflushed when new boiler installed.

24kw sounds about right. What size rads have you got? I'm slightly drunk awaiting the ashes restart but I'd say it's down to rad size and boiler flow temp. Where's the stat? Should be in the coldest part of the house. Your situation sounds like ours prior to all of the work. In our case it was down to undersized boiler, air leakage and lack of insulation. In theory you should have no such worries.

[TTmonkey]

PDP76 said:

hyphen said:

hotchy said:

I love these threads, one thing that confuses me. You can actually have your house set to certain temps. I have an on off button. On, too warm and I hit off. Think itll be great to have a house set to not only stay warm, just not too warm.

Someone introduce this poster to thermostats and how they work.

My dad (RIP Dad) had a thermostat that was set to 14 when the house was too hot and 34 when it was too cold. Yes he used the 'stat as an on/off switch.

Wouldn't be told.

[eliot]

iambigred said:

Everyone's house is going to be different, but until you measure it you're not going to know! I've set up a script to capture the heating status and temperature from my Nest thermostat every 5 minutes. The heating profile of my house 'new build' constructed in 2005 looks like this:



This is from yesterday (NE England) which was cold, especially overnight/this morning, at 8am it was 1 degree outside with a frost on the car windscreen. As you can see there is a big block of heating in the afternoon when the Nest decides to turn itself on at 3pm just to reach the set temperature for returning home at around 6pm. During this time the temperature increases at a rate of 1 degree per hour, which I think is pretty poor. It then ticks over overnight (19.5 degrees as we have a small child), with each burst of heating maintaining the temperature for around 1 hr until it drops again.

Even though the temperature reaches 21.5 degrees the house still feels cold (especially downstairs) due to the cold laminate floor and objects in the room not heating up at the same rate as the air temperature.

I think my rads are undersized, how long would you expect it to take to increase your house by 1 degree in November?

I'll amend the schedule to maintain 18.5 during the day and see how this impacts the overall comfort of the house and duration of heating.

New build, 2800sq-ft, blown insulation in the walls and tripple glazing;
I let the house drop down to whatever temp overnight- which is usually 16-17. I can get it back up to 21 in the areas i want warm very quickly. Upstairs will take half hour, some of the larger rooms downstairs will take longer.
I have the boiler set to maximum and ignore the return temps for condensing mode - my approach is to run it hard for short bursts.
I found that used less gas (which like everything in my house i track very closely) running it flat out, rather than for hours on end at a lower boiler temperature waiting for the hot water tank and rooms to slowly come up to temp.
Because i can heat the house quickly, I essentially have it off during the day and night and only have it come on in the occupied parts of the house follow our working day.

I’ll see if i can make a graph showing gas consumption v room temp