Lapsed planning permission.

[jmsgld]

Early stages of looking at a barn for conversion to dwelling.

By the time of completion the full planning will have lapsed by a month or 2. As far as I am aware nothing has changed with planning in the last 3 years - Local plan predates this and nothing new adopted. We would probably want to go back to planning anyway to tweak the floorplan a little. Should the lapsed planning concern me?
We would be cash, I presume that the lack of planning would make finance tricky for competitors?

Mid 1800s, brick built, curtillage listed grade II. Approx 150m2 ground floor + another 50m2 1st floor to be supported by internal steel frame. L shaped but the smaller half to be demolished and rebuilt. Currently tin roof so will likely need new roof timbers up to building regs to support the specified slate. One gable end probably needs rebuilding with appropriate foundations, some stitching of walls and probably a little underpinning.

Budget 2-300k completed, reasonable spec, managed by ourselves, sound the right ball park?

Thanks, James

[anonymous-user]

It would concern me.
It will "probably" be ok, but one never knows.

Grade 2 listing is an extra hoop to jump through as well.

It would be a lot easier if the vendors applied for an extension, unless you are going for a discount or the lack of PP was taken into consideration when setting the price.

[Equus]

jmsgld said:

Should the lapsed planning concern me?

If nothing else has changed, then probably not. But the vendor would be wise to renew the permission themselves.

If a prospective purchaser's finance, or a higher selling price depends on it, then the cost of a fresh approval (or a material commencement on site to preserve the current permission) would be trivial.

And it would be wise to review the existing planning consent to see what might need updating (ecology? structural engineer's report, if the structure has been left to decay for the last 3 years? Flood risk, conceivably; S106/CIL situation, conceivably?).

jmsgld said:

We would be cash, I presume that the lack of planning would make finance tricky for competitors?

It depends on their financial situation, but see above: they would just submit an offer subject to obtaining renewed PP.

jmsgld said:

Budget 2-300k completed, reasonable spec, managed by ourselves, sound the right ball park?

How long is a piece of string? Possibly, depending on spec. and what you run into with the existing structure, but this sort of project has a habit of running away with itself, costs wise.

Do you have the necessary skills and knowledge to project manage (and act as Principal Contractor under CDM) for this sort of project? The very fact that you're asking these sort of questions suggests not... in which case budget becomes considerably more questionable.

[Equus]

desolate said:

It would be a lot easier if the vendors applied for an extension...

There's no such animal, any more.

You need to apply for a whole fresh permission, these days (or, as I said, make a material commencement on site to preserve the existing permission - which obviously requires that pre-commencement conditions have been discharged)

[anonymous-user]

Equus said:

There's no such animal, any more.

You need to apply for a whole fresh permission, these days (or, as I said, make a material commencement on site to preserve the existing permission - which obviously requires that pre-commencement conditions have been discharged)

You are of course quite correct.

I have had to do one and it was a whole new application. It was very straightforward as I just had to resubmit what was previously agreed. The original application had a shed load of tooing and froing.

[Equus]

desolate said:

It was very straightforward as I just had to resubmit what was previously agreed.

If nothing has changed or needs updating... which is the very question the OP is asking, of course.

OTOH, for example, I've known barn conversions where the permission has hinged on a significant part of the structure being retained (usually judged on the basis of a Structural Engineer's report, in accordance with BRE Digest 366 Part 2: Structural appraisal of existing buildings) and what was acceptable when the original application was submitted has been allowed to further decay for 3 or 4 years to the point where it's considered beyond saving.

As you say, 'probably' OK is about as far as you can go, without a detailed appraisal of the existing consent.

[jmsgld]

Thanks for all the replies.

Material commencement not possible as there are a few reserved matters that need resolving before works can be started - landscaping etc. No time for a new app before sale.

Ecology + structural engineer will need updating, CIL the same, no 106, no flood risk. It's been empty since the 70's so can't imagine too much has changed structurally, the structural engineer was quite positive in his 2 reports 5 years apart.

Offers are as is, lapsed planning etc.

Never heard of CDM, that sounds like fun... My girlfriend's last role was the 2nd person in a 2 man property development company, and their last project was a large steel framed barn conversion. She also used to be head of health and safety for a large charity and has the qualifications for that... hopefully should be able to figure that out.

We've done projects before but not quite on this scale.