Heating advice
Discussion
Long story short and looking for advice on the best way to handle this situation.
Last year our boiler was due a service. Booked in a firm that we have used for years. The system is a vented system, been fine for the last 3 years we have owned the house.
About a week before they were due to service the boiler a couple of rads in one room stopped getting hot and the boiler wouldn't stay on, it was kettling. I rang them to advise them of this in advance of their service visit.
Engineer turns up to service the boiler but cannot because the boiler had started to 'kettle'. I told him that I had advised the office of this a few days before. He organised other plumbers to come out and add cleaner.
Cleaner was added and after 1 week all rads were hot and everything was fine. They came to drain the system of the cleaner and refill it ready to service the boiler.
This is where it all went wrong. They couldn't get air out of the system. They drained and refilled the system 3 times over the next few days but to no avail. They replaced the pump (there was nothing wrong with the old one), they replaced the 3 way valve (there was nothing wrong with the old one). The temperature was dropping, it was early December and it was during the first really cold snap of the year.
I suggested two or three times that maybe they should power flush it, I was told that that was expensive and the only issue is air.
Over the next 10, yes 10, days they kept coming back. During this time they suggested sealing the system because they tested it out and more air was coming out when the temporarily sealed it. At this point we had had no hot water or heating for 10 days, we have a 5 year old son and I was starting to get desperate. I told them to get it sorted, if it had to be sealed then go ahead, just sort out my heating.
They sealed the system and it stuttered into life eventually. Still had cold rads so over the next 2 weeks they came back to refill the expansion tank numerous times and add more bleed valves.
Oh, and they have not fitted a filter which I was told would be done when the system was sealed.
At no point did they actually quote me for sealing the system. At no point did any of the engineers get me to sign any worksheets, indeed I still haven't signed anything.
Fast forward to today when they rang me to ask if it was all okay now. I replied that it all seems to be working but I am still annoyed that you deemed it necessary to seal my system when it was working okay right up until you drained it to get rid of the cleaner.
They are sending me a bill for 1100 quid. I am waiting to see how this is broken down.
I think this is a bit steep to be honest considering the hassle they have caused. I could have got it power flushed for half that price.
Bearing in mind I have no quotes for sealing the system, just me agreeing over the phone to have it done out of desperation, there were no other firms that I could get in as they were all stacked out unsurprisingly. I have also signed no documentation or engineer worksheets for any of the work undertaken, I mentioned this and the reply was that the vans have trackers so we know how long they were at your property sir.
Thoughts on the best way forward.
Last year our boiler was due a service. Booked in a firm that we have used for years. The system is a vented system, been fine for the last 3 years we have owned the house.
About a week before they were due to service the boiler a couple of rads in one room stopped getting hot and the boiler wouldn't stay on, it was kettling. I rang them to advise them of this in advance of their service visit.
Engineer turns up to service the boiler but cannot because the boiler had started to 'kettle'. I told him that I had advised the office of this a few days before. He organised other plumbers to come out and add cleaner.
Cleaner was added and after 1 week all rads were hot and everything was fine. They came to drain the system of the cleaner and refill it ready to service the boiler.
This is where it all went wrong. They couldn't get air out of the system. They drained and refilled the system 3 times over the next few days but to no avail. They replaced the pump (there was nothing wrong with the old one), they replaced the 3 way valve (there was nothing wrong with the old one). The temperature was dropping, it was early December and it was during the first really cold snap of the year.
I suggested two or three times that maybe they should power flush it, I was told that that was expensive and the only issue is air.
Over the next 10, yes 10, days they kept coming back. During this time they suggested sealing the system because they tested it out and more air was coming out when the temporarily sealed it. At this point we had had no hot water or heating for 10 days, we have a 5 year old son and I was starting to get desperate. I told them to get it sorted, if it had to be sealed then go ahead, just sort out my heating.
They sealed the system and it stuttered into life eventually. Still had cold rads so over the next 2 weeks they came back to refill the expansion tank numerous times and add more bleed valves.
Oh, and they have not fitted a filter which I was told would be done when the system was sealed.
At no point did they actually quote me for sealing the system. At no point did any of the engineers get me to sign any worksheets, indeed I still haven't signed anything.
Fast forward to today when they rang me to ask if it was all okay now. I replied that it all seems to be working but I am still annoyed that you deemed it necessary to seal my system when it was working okay right up until you drained it to get rid of the cleaner.
They are sending me a bill for 1100 quid. I am waiting to see how this is broken down.
I think this is a bit steep to be honest considering the hassle they have caused. I could have got it power flushed for half that price.
Bearing in mind I have no quotes for sealing the system, just me agreeing over the phone to have it done out of desperation, there were no other firms that I could get in as they were all stacked out unsurprisingly. I have also signed no documentation or engineer worksheets for any of the work undertaken, I mentioned this and the reply was that the vans have trackers so we know how long they were at your property sir.
Thoughts on the best way forward.
Alucidnation said:
How much did they estimate the costs would be when you asked them?
When I asked how much we were in for they side-stepped the question by stating they were just interested in getting it sorted.They knew I was stuck with them as it was 2 weeks before Christmas, we had no heating or hot water and every other plumber in the area was stacked out due to the cold weather.
Alucidnation said:
Fair enough.
Considering they were there 10 days on and off, I think the charge is quite reasonable.
I'll clarify this a bit. They were there 10 days on and off trying to refill the heating system...that was working fine before they drained it...as a vented system. All items were working fine.Considering they were there 10 days on and off, I think the charge is quite reasonable.
They replaced the pump (old one worked and was not swapped back), 3 way valve (old one worked and was not swapped back), and sealed the system, at no point mentioning any of these costs.
They were also turning up at 3pm so only there for 2 hours each time which didn't give them time to do anything of much use except bang another air bleed valve in somewhere.
Alucidnation said:
Ok that's maybe, but you should still have clarified at least an approximate figure.
And it sounds like the system has/is badly designed and installed anyway, so any plumber would have probably had the same problems.
Believe me I asked for figures and they dodged it every time (knowing that I had no other option but to wait 3-4 weeks for someone else to even come out and look...this was 2 weeks before Christmas so make that 6 weeks).And it sounds like the system has/is badly designed and installed anyway, so any plumber would have probably had the same problems.
For balance, we had a new boiler and hot water cylinder installed 3 years ago when we moved in by British Gas. No problems with refilling the system then. All completed with no drama at all.
Oh and I enquired why the filter has not been fitted, as was promised. She couldn't tell me that but could tell me it would be £150 for the filter and £150 to fit it. The first quotation I have received from them.
ETA: Does it sound like a power flush would have gone a long way to sorting this?
Edited by Sixpackpert on Tuesday 20th March 19:37
I don’t see how a powerflush would have removed the air as that is normally used to remove all the crap from the system before a new boiler install. If the rads were hot at some point before and after then that would also suggest they were not full of crap either.
When I had air in my system, I drained it a bit then emptied a bottle of inhibitor into the tank in the loft and let it circulate round. Since then there has been no more air.
There is a test that can be done on the water to check the inhibitor levels. Did they do this before starting work?
When I had air in my system, I drained it a bit then emptied a bottle of inhibitor into the tank in the loft and let it circulate round. Since then there has been no more air.
There is a test that can be done on the water to check the inhibitor levels. Did they do this before starting work?
KTF said:
I don’t see how a powerflush would have removed the air as that is normally used to remove all the crap from the system before a new boiler install. If the rads were hot at some point before and after then that would also suggest they were not full of crap either.
When I had air in my system, I drained it a bit then emptied a bottle of inhibitor into the tank in the loft and let it circulate round. Since then there has been no more air.
There is a test that can be done on the water to check the inhibitor levels. Did they do this before starting work?
My reasoning a power flush may have been needed was because when the cleaner had been put in all was good. In my mind the crap was circulating. When they drained the system the crap got stuck somewhere which then caused the problems when filling the system back up. Not being an expert I just thought a power flush would help out.When I had air in my system, I drained it a bit then emptied a bottle of inhibitor into the tank in the loft and let it circulate round. Since then there has been no more air.
There is a test that can be done on the water to check the inhibitor levels. Did they do this before starting work?
They didn't check it for inhibitor before hand, they just put the cleaner in and went a way for a week.
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