Is anyone moving now?
Discussion
I'm an EA and we've a number of contracted moves supposed to be happening over the next week both sales and rentals. Advice has been changing by the day and each party reacting differently to the ever moving goal-posts.
I've got a rental move today, family going into a vacant modern house. They're moving themselves, all paperwork done remotely. We've not been able to clean it (no cleaners working around here), inventory done yesterday by clerk in gloves/overshoes etc, I'm delivering the keys and most likely just putting them on the garden wall, saying good luck from a distance and then leaving. I just hope for their sake nothing breaks down as would be typical on a Friday as there's no way we can sort anything other than a dire emergency.
Adds a whole new meaning to the expression 'key worker' and it feels very, very strange.
I've got a rental move today, family going into a vacant modern house. They're moving themselves, all paperwork done remotely. We've not been able to clean it (no cleaners working around here), inventory done yesterday by clerk in gloves/overshoes etc, I'm delivering the keys and most likely just putting them on the garden wall, saying good luck from a distance and then leaving. I just hope for their sake nothing breaks down as would be typical on a Friday as there's no way we can sort anything other than a dire emergency.
Adds a whole new meaning to the expression 'key worker' and it feels very, very strange.
I freelance for a company that, amongst other things, does the odd house move.
The one remaining job we have starts today.
Flat move from Kent to Devon. No chain. Elderly lady living alone.
3 of us going in later to start packing, travelling Monday / Tuesday.
Will be adhering to West Hams defensive rules on not getting close to anybody as much as possible.
The one remaining job we have starts today.
Flat move from Kent to Devon. No chain. Elderly lady living alone.
3 of us going in later to start packing, travelling Monday / Tuesday.
Will be adhering to West Hams defensive rules on not getting close to anybody as much as possible.
lampchair said:
Housing Sec has now said to pause, or words to that effect.
Not quite 
there has been misinformation on the news today... BBC Radio 2 esp. saying that moves are all off...
what is actually happening is that the mortgage lenders are basically suspending or withdrawing many of their products from the market as they re-assess risk with so many people requesting mortgage payment holidays - this has meant that c. 10% of the mortgage offerings are now gone and in some cases new lending has been frozen for now...
the government's legislation yesterday clearly allows house moves as an accepted reason for being out of the house...
the official government website is here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/government-advice-on-h...
In summary:
If you are yet to exchange - pause or delay
If you have exchanged and contractually have to complete:
- if moving into an empty house - no issues
- if moving into an occupied house - see if all will agree to a delay
- if moving into an occupied house and a delay can not be agreed, then continue to move, but do so with caution...
Conveyancers and removal companies should continue to support current moves / contractual positions - but to do so bearing in mind the advice to stay 2m apart / wash hands / etc.
So - common sense - if you don't need to move / can delay it - do so, but if you have to move, then carry on but do so carefully...
Hammer67 said:
I freelance for a company that, amongst other things, does the odd house move.
The one remaining job we have starts today.
Flat move from Kent to Devon. No chain. Elderly lady living alone.
3 of us going in later to start packing, travelling Monday / Tuesday.
Will be adhering to West Hams defensive rules on not getting close to anybody as much as possible.
Keep your head down!The one remaining job we have starts today.
Flat move from Kent to Devon. No chain. Elderly lady living alone.
3 of us going in later to start packing, travelling Monday / Tuesday.
Will be adhering to West Hams defensive rules on not getting close to anybody as much as possible.
I'm trying to do the planning for a move from Marlow-Devon but due to extenuating circumstances (Coronavirus - no s
t Sherlock, house left in a st tip by tenant, removals in a state of flux), we are just playing it by ear. guardian link
I am in a chain of 4 due to exchange and complete today and estate a gent has gone silent, not answering phone or email. I suspect someone has dropped out completely.
I am in a chain of 4 due to exchange and complete today and estate a gent has gone silent, not answering phone or email. I suspect someone has dropped out completely.
I am in rented and due to exchange/complete same day on a vacant property.
I guess we'll keep renting until this blows over and we can hire a van tk move in.
The house is only 1 mile away. We drive further to nearest supermarket, so we're hoping to be able to pop in there to do some light DIY given that we won't come into contact with anyone while we are in the house.
I guess we'll keep renting until this blows over and we can hire a van tk move in.
The house is only 1 mile away. We drive further to nearest supermarket, so we're hoping to be able to pop in there to do some light DIY given that we won't come into contact with anyone while we are in the house.
fesuvious said:
Hammer67 said:
I freelance for a company that, amongst other things, does the odd house move.
The one remaining job we have starts today.
Flat move from Kent to Devon. No chain. Elderly lady living alone.
3 of us going in later to start packing, travelling Monday / Tuesday.
Will be adhering to West Hams defensive rules on not getting close to anybody as much as possible.
Three of you in an elderly persons home?The one remaining job we have starts today.
Flat move from Kent to Devon. No chain. Elderly lady living alone.
3 of us going in later to start packing, travelling Monday / Tuesday.
Will be adhering to West Hams defensive rules on not getting close to anybody as much as possible.
How will you ensure social distancing is adhered to? Will you all be in the same cab?
How will you perform 2 man lifts of items of less length than 2m without breaking distance rules?
How will you load the body of the vehicle without getting within 2m of each other?
Is the client aware that she needs to be put of the new property for a few days after you three have been in there to allow the virus to die if you have accidently spread it?
Will you have a clear conscience is she's dead in 2 weeks as a result of three random people accidently taking Covid-19 into the abode?
Your actions are against HMG guidance now.
How will you sanitise your hands frequently enough versus likelihood of touching your face?
If any of you pick it up from the client, take it home and kill one of your relatives, will your conscience be clear?
I wonder how negligence is calculated against the firms insurance policy?
Frankly profits and revenue are being put ahead of safety and social conscience. Let alone common sense.
Edited by fesuvious on Friday 27th March 08:02
Edited to add, an hour after I bailed, have been advised that the job has been cancelled/postponed.
Not sure which dwarf she was but the old girl wasn`t happy.
Edited by Hammer67 on Friday 27th March 09:35
We started viewing houses 2 weeks ago. Was planning on offering on one potentially but glad we held off.
We love our current house and might review in a few years time and extend instead if we need to.
It’s certainly made me appreciate having smaller outgoings such as mortgage as so much is out of our control right now
We love our current house and might review in a few years time and extend instead if we need to.
It’s certainly made me appreciate having smaller outgoings such as mortgage as so much is out of our control right now
Hammer67 said:
Excellent post. I`ve bailed out.
Edited to add, an hour after I bailed, have been advised that the job has been cancelled/postponed.
Not sure which dwarf she was but the old girl wasn`t happy.
She won't be happy because if she has a buyer moving into her house she is in a very tricky situation...Edited to add, an hour after I bailed, have been advised that the job has been cancelled/postponed.
Not sure which dwarf she was but the old girl wasn`t happy.
Edited by Hammer67 on Friday 27th March 09:35
fesuvious said:
HMG guidance trumps the contract.
It's tough on the buyers. No court would side with the chain.
It's tough on the seller - they are in breach of contract, not the buyers (who of course may end up in breach of their own contract if in a chain). It's tough on the buyers. No court would side with the chain.
Given my understanding you are not a lawyer, your views on who the Court would or would not back are irrelevant. The fact of the matter is the seller is in breach of contract if they do not move out on the day of completion - there is no force majeure clause in the standard conditions of sale - and the only remedy would be to claim frustration, which is not necessarily likely to succeed and would only mean the sale contract is terminated, which one imagines is not a good result for them. There is no scope for a Court to say "oh don't worry due to the coronavirus you just have to push back completion until this blows over".
The Law Society advice says as much: https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/support-services/adv...
fesuvious said:
Frustration.
The contract has been frustrated by any one of a whole heap of factors.
No, I'm not a lawyer. I guarantee however out of the two of us only one is actively in discussions & consultation with MHCLG on this topic.
When HMG issue guidance that states completion should be delayed that is one thing. Add on social distancing affecting movement. Plus a whole heap of other concerns and the rules have changed.
You can argue it all you want but I absolutely guarantee that taking an elderly homeowner to court to enforce completion (after serving notice on them later today) will be laughed at.
Thee seller has every right and every weight to demand a delay 'due to current HMG home moving guidance and an inability to complete the contract due to measures outside their control'.
Define that with all the current rules, circumstances and health, wealth, wellbeing and means reasons andd the position is reasonable.
You can be as angry over it as you want.
What is the effect of frustration? Termination. It isn't delay until it blows over. A vendor simply does not have the right to demand delay. If the vendor simply says they cannot or will not complete and that the contract is therefore frustrated, the buyer can say well the contract is terminated return my deposit. Unless and until legislation amends the law (which seems remarkably unlikely), that is the position. The contract has been frustrated by any one of a whole heap of factors.
No, I'm not a lawyer. I guarantee however out of the two of us only one is actively in discussions & consultation with MHCLG on this topic.
When HMG issue guidance that states completion should be delayed that is one thing. Add on social distancing affecting movement. Plus a whole heap of other concerns and the rules have changed.
You can argue it all you want but I absolutely guarantee that taking an elderly homeowner to court to enforce completion (after serving notice on them later today) will be laughed at.
Thee seller has every right and every weight to demand a delay 'due to current HMG home moving guidance and an inability to complete the contract due to measures outside their control'.
Define that with all the current rules, circumstances and health, wealth, wellbeing and means reasons andd the position is reasonable.
You can be as angry over it as you want.
Edited by 156651 on Friday 27th March 10:52
CAPP0 said:
Good friend of mine owns a large removals company, he's been getting panic calls this week from people moving where the removals firm they have booked have been pulling the plug on them the night before the move. He's been backfilling where he can.
This is my concern. Vendor has apparently booked a removal company as their family was no longer able to help. Will be very frustrated if the removal firm pulls out close to the completion date, and the vendor hasn't engaged with us to negotiate an alternative before then (despite us reaching out to them). fesuvious said:
of course you're correct
Right now its 'frustration or delay, your call' - 'what ya wanna do?'
Or its simply being reasonable and all parties agreeing to a 'stop' or delay. The key to all this is reasonableness. Gov doesn't want a perception of STOP(!) on the market. It wants what is sensible and reasonable and that is a PAUSE. A perception of the pause button being pressed / suspended animation.
Then we all pick back up once this is under control. I support it.
(and as of Wednesday and yesterday im losing somewhere in-between £5&10k per week because of it)
I don't disagree, and we will try to come to a reasonable agreement with our vendors if and when they tell us they cannot complete. However you can well imagine a case where a buyer gets cold feet due to the risk (real or otherwise) of a drastic drop in house prices over the next couple of years and therefore given the opportunity to terminate the contract because the vendor cannot complete will take it. You can also well imagine a situation where a vendor takes an unreasonable approach (for example, if ours demanded that we delay indefinitely but didn't agree to pay towards our losses due to the delay) where the buyer says well if the vendor can't negotiate in good faith we don't intend to either. Right now its 'frustration or delay, your call' - 'what ya wanna do?'
Or its simply being reasonable and all parties agreeing to a 'stop' or delay. The key to all this is reasonableness. Gov doesn't want a perception of STOP(!) on the market. It wants what is sensible and reasonable and that is a PAUSE. A perception of the pause button being pressed / suspended animation.
Then we all pick back up once this is under control. I support it.
(and as of Wednesday and yesterday im losing somewhere in-between £5&10k per week because of it)
As you will be well aware, markets run on sentiment and confidence. The Government could legislate for a pause, though what effect that would have on market sentiment I do not know. At the moment, those between exchange and completion are in a very tricky situation.
Heard back from my developer, all new build completions will go through next Monday and Tuesday and then will probably be postponed from April onwards. Lucky i'm to complete on 30th, so looks like i'll get in on time which is a big relief. Won't be able to move in though as flooring company closed down and so it's just concrete... but legally having the house is the important thing.
Next hurdle is seeing what I can do about having a mortgage and rental contract at the same time... especially with wife of stat maternity pay
Next hurdle is seeing what I can do about having a mortgage and rental contract at the same time... especially with wife of stat maternity pay
fesuvious said:
156651 said:
CAPP0 said:
Good friend of mine owns a large removals company, he's been getting panic calls this week from people moving where the removals firm they have booked have been pulling the plug on them the night before the move. He's been backfilling where he can.
This is my concern. Vendor has apparently booked a removal company as their family was no longer able to help. Will be very frustrated if the removal firm pulls out close to the completion date, and the vendor hasn't engaged with us to negotiate an alternative before then (despite us reaching out to them). The whole thing is scary as no end in sight really.
We are in a difficult situation as we are buying separate to selling. We had alot of viewings booked on ours which we have had to cancel but we had already come to the conclusion we would buy without selling and not add it into the chain if we can.
We are nearing exchanging on our purchase but the vendor is delaying things as she is moving into a barn conversion and its not fully finished (was meant to be finished next month) plus she is elderly so with no help so wont get much help moving. Plus she hasnt answered some of our concerns we raised. We dont have to move in straight away but we would like to move in by end of June at least as we've a baby due end of July / Start of August.
Jobs are safe no problems but it is scary that if mortgage products are removed and mortgage offers expire then what happens?
I wish we didnt find the house of our dreams and pay full asking but we will see what happens. Just bad timing on everything lol
We are going to start prepping our current home for the baby as back up. Maybe messy with a bed dismantled in the corner of a room but needs must IMO
We are in a difficult situation as we are buying separate to selling. We had alot of viewings booked on ours which we have had to cancel but we had already come to the conclusion we would buy without selling and not add it into the chain if we can.
We are nearing exchanging on our purchase but the vendor is delaying things as she is moving into a barn conversion and its not fully finished (was meant to be finished next month) plus she is elderly so with no help so wont get much help moving. Plus she hasnt answered some of our concerns we raised. We dont have to move in straight away but we would like to move in by end of June at least as we've a baby due end of July / Start of August.
Jobs are safe no problems but it is scary that if mortgage products are removed and mortgage offers expire then what happens?
I wish we didnt find the house of our dreams and pay full asking but we will see what happens. Just bad timing on everything lol
We are going to start prepping our current home for the baby as back up. Maybe messy with a bed dismantled in the corner of a room but needs must IMO
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