Not another garage improvement thread...
Discussion
RacingPete said:
I am thinking the space to the right will make a nice display cabinet area, and to the left will be storage, so might not be so noticeable and in the way (plus it only goes as far out as the edge of the garage door)
I think the step will repay itself in terms of not having to remember that big drop in and out, especially if carrying stuffMy only concern would be when you catch you shin on the corner of one of those tiles.......you'll only do it once mind, as the memory will live for ever and you'll never repeat it.
Moving on up…
The next stage of the garage build is to now pile all the rubbish and stuff accumulated in a normal garage up to the loft, so down to Wickes to get a load of OSB boards and some battens and to get started on building an area.
I decided to go and put the battens perpendicular to the trusses, I am not sure it is really needed but did mean that I can space them for the end of the floor boards in the right places rather than relying on the builders actually sticking to 600mm centres, and then could overlap the joins to create more strength.
I also need a way of getting up and down, so I got from the local Costco a loft ladder which was pretty easy to fit and luckily only needed packing on one side to space between the joists and it makes a huge difference to getting up and down. Link to Costco loft ladder - https://www.costco.co.uk/Home-Improvement/Hardware...
Once boarded I instantly thought this shouldn’t be filled with rubbish and I should convert it into a massive scalextric track or model railway instead, but I remembered my goal of getting the big cars downstairs into a nice area - so something to think about in the future.
I also made sure to nicely cut around the trusses as didn’t want many gaps in the flooring either. I am thinking in the future it might be nice to carpet it with some cheap carpet too - but that will come with the scalextric I think
I have a few tyres from racing, so only boarded a third for the moment and will decide what to do with the last third - it was quite handy as I have not sorted the lighting out yet and the extra light from the front helps to keep it not fully dark.
So up goes all the crap…
I will sort through this at some point to get to the scalextric zone, but at least this has got most of the stuff up from the garage floor and now have a bit more space to play with.
Other things I have played with - how to put stuff like bike rack, roof box, two bikes up out of the way…. This was with all stuff I already had apart from the pulley lift for the eMTB.
So in order of success:
Roof box works with the ratchet straps, but not the quickest to undo and takes two of my trailer straps out of action - so need to rethink this, maybe use the pulley system for the eMTB.
Which moves on to the pulley system, it kind of works but there is nothing on the back of the bike to put the holders on to - so I did ziptie across the holders but knocked it all off on to my head and the zip ties broke - lesson learned, used a wheel strap for now. I think this is a good solution and has a 30kg weighting for it so good enough.... but do I fully trust it above the car
Bike rack - all good, just holders on wall, does the job nicely
Pedal holder for road bike - I am not sure I like this too much, such an angle for the bike on the wall and may look for something else… also I imagined having the bike on the wall would be a nice feature, but not at this falling angle - will work on this.
As you can see from some of the pics I have moved on to tile samples - probably going to break the rule and go flooring next as I still can’t decide on what to do with the walls - but as going tiles, easy enough to pick back up to sort walls etc.
And for now the Scooby is back in the garage with space around it…
The next stage of the garage build is to now pile all the rubbish and stuff accumulated in a normal garage up to the loft, so down to Wickes to get a load of OSB boards and some battens and to get started on building an area.
I decided to go and put the battens perpendicular to the trusses, I am not sure it is really needed but did mean that I can space them for the end of the floor boards in the right places rather than relying on the builders actually sticking to 600mm centres, and then could overlap the joins to create more strength.
I also need a way of getting up and down, so I got from the local Costco a loft ladder which was pretty easy to fit and luckily only needed packing on one side to space between the joists and it makes a huge difference to getting up and down. Link to Costco loft ladder - https://www.costco.co.uk/Home-Improvement/Hardware...
Once boarded I instantly thought this shouldn’t be filled with rubbish and I should convert it into a massive scalextric track or model railway instead, but I remembered my goal of getting the big cars downstairs into a nice area - so something to think about in the future.
I also made sure to nicely cut around the trusses as didn’t want many gaps in the flooring either. I am thinking in the future it might be nice to carpet it with some cheap carpet too - but that will come with the scalextric I think
I have a few tyres from racing, so only boarded a third for the moment and will decide what to do with the last third - it was quite handy as I have not sorted the lighting out yet and the extra light from the front helps to keep it not fully dark.
So up goes all the crap…
I will sort through this at some point to get to the scalextric zone, but at least this has got most of the stuff up from the garage floor and now have a bit more space to play with.
Other things I have played with - how to put stuff like bike rack, roof box, two bikes up out of the way…. This was with all stuff I already had apart from the pulley lift for the eMTB.
So in order of success:
Roof box works with the ratchet straps, but not the quickest to undo and takes two of my trailer straps out of action - so need to rethink this, maybe use the pulley system for the eMTB.
Which moves on to the pulley system, it kind of works but there is nothing on the back of the bike to put the holders on to - so I did ziptie across the holders but knocked it all off on to my head and the zip ties broke - lesson learned, used a wheel strap for now. I think this is a good solution and has a 30kg weighting for it so good enough.... but do I fully trust it above the car
Bike rack - all good, just holders on wall, does the job nicely
Pedal holder for road bike - I am not sure I like this too much, such an angle for the bike on the wall and may look for something else… also I imagined having the bike on the wall would be a nice feature, but not at this falling angle - will work on this.
As you can see from some of the pics I have moved on to tile samples - probably going to break the rule and go flooring next as I still can’t decide on what to do with the walls - but as going tiles, easy enough to pick back up to sort walls etc.
And for now the Scooby is back in the garage with space around it…
I have been thinking about the walls most of today... I like the brick pillars but would prefer to have a better finish on the walls to put art up, and get better fixings for the bikes, tools on the walls. I would probably look at doing the brick work in between the pillars and up to the breeze block that connects to the house, but generally I want to control humidity and temp better in the garage, so slightly warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer - so that does say a little insulation might be good. Have read the threads I can find here and Equus makes great points here - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... - so would probably look at following this a little.
Yes, I know I have a big radiator garage door on the front, but let's say that is in the works to get done down the line to avoid "heating or dehumidifying the county"...
Let's look at the current data... I picked up a Govee which is not some tall lanky politician but a wifi thermo-hygrometer (see here: https://uk.govee.com/collections/smart-sensor/prod...
Weather data is from Visual Crossing if you want to do the same - https://www.visualcrossing.com/weather/weather-dat...
Here is the current temp inside the garage vs outside
So generally it lags behind the outside temperature, but did well not to spike all the way down when outside went negative, so something is doing a reasonable job at keeping it temperate. Also in the recent teen temps it has trailed a little lower so generally not too bad for non insulated garage.
Humidity is another matter though...
OK, it has been raining for ever this year, and this data set is fist two weeks in March - but as I have cars and tools and machinery in there I am thinking regularly being above 80 is not great - so would like to control that better.
Thoughts from the think tank here?
Yes, I know I have a big radiator garage door on the front, but let's say that is in the works to get done down the line to avoid "heating or dehumidifying the county"...
Let's look at the current data... I picked up a Govee which is not some tall lanky politician but a wifi thermo-hygrometer (see here: https://uk.govee.com/collections/smart-sensor/prod...
Weather data is from Visual Crossing if you want to do the same - https://www.visualcrossing.com/weather/weather-dat...
Here is the current temp inside the garage vs outside
So generally it lags behind the outside temperature, but did well not to spike all the way down when outside went negative, so something is doing a reasonable job at keeping it temperate. Also in the recent teen temps it has trailed a little lower so generally not too bad for non insulated garage.
Humidity is another matter though...
OK, it has been raining for ever this year, and this data set is fist two weeks in March - but as I have cars and tools and machinery in there I am thinking regularly being above 80 is not great - so would like to control that better.
Thoughts from the think tank here?
Controlling humidity is a massive ball-ache. Have you thought about comparing outside v.s. inside the house using the same sensors just to see what an insulated building looks like at the same sort of time with the same sort of climate?
Problem is if the moisture is getting into the building it then has to have a way to escape. So can it go through the new floor and escape out through the roof? Can you compare main garage space to new loft space to see what is happening across that divide?
I've got zero knowledge of humidity control and living in a drafty old victorian house we are better off not trying to control it and rather let it escape though the roof along with all the heat from the radiators!
However, one idea I've had from seeing what happens in garages is to try to use the tendency for condensation of moisture to control it. So if for example you had some metal sheet on the inside of those garage doors would that attract condensation which could then dribble down and escape out the front? Maybe if you had some underfloor heating towards the rear of the garage you could create a warm and cold half to make the warm travel to the cold as it normally does?
Edit: from my long experience working in garages without heating or insulation you do need something to elevate the temperatures a little during the winter if you are going to be in there working / tinkering at the coldest times. However, it does not have to be as warm as the house and making it that warm would make physical activity difficult. If you can get it up to 10-degrees at the height of winter that is enough to stop your fingers going numb and that I think is the ideal standard if you want it usable all year round. We've got electric underfloor heating in our kitchen, utility room and rear hall and it's very nice and easy to install as well.
Also... the 'crap' from having a family I can sympathise with. One of my outbuildings has been commandeered by the wife for storing all that sort of stuff and it never gets used or touched. It's just a room with a pile of crap in it. Some of it has been there for 5 years without being touched.
Problem is if the moisture is getting into the building it then has to have a way to escape. So can it go through the new floor and escape out through the roof? Can you compare main garage space to new loft space to see what is happening across that divide?
I've got zero knowledge of humidity control and living in a drafty old victorian house we are better off not trying to control it and rather let it escape though the roof along with all the heat from the radiators!
However, one idea I've had from seeing what happens in garages is to try to use the tendency for condensation of moisture to control it. So if for example you had some metal sheet on the inside of those garage doors would that attract condensation which could then dribble down and escape out the front? Maybe if you had some underfloor heating towards the rear of the garage you could create a warm and cold half to make the warm travel to the cold as it normally does?
Edit: from my long experience working in garages without heating or insulation you do need something to elevate the temperatures a little during the winter if you are going to be in there working / tinkering at the coldest times. However, it does not have to be as warm as the house and making it that warm would make physical activity difficult. If you can get it up to 10-degrees at the height of winter that is enough to stop your fingers going numb and that I think is the ideal standard if you want it usable all year round. We've got electric underfloor heating in our kitchen, utility room and rear hall and it's very nice and easy to install as well.
Also... the 'crap' from having a family I can sympathise with. One of my outbuildings has been commandeered by the wife for storing all that sort of stuff and it never gets used or touched. It's just a room with a pile of crap in it. Some of it has been there for 5 years without being touched.
Edited by ingenieur on Tuesday 2nd April 09:41
Thanks for responding, I agree that controlling the temp is probably the first step and then a method for getting rid of the humid air as the second.
The second graph above is representation of outside and inside so it is following the outside with a little lag as expected I guess.
I have this week ordered insulation for the roof to control the temp fluctuations (should be enough left over to do the garage doors too), especially with the sun getting stronger and the majority of the roof south facing. I have also ordered stormdry for the outside walls to stop the brick being penetrated by water. And finally the floor will go down too (though can’t afford underfloor heating).
Once all installed I’m going to look at decent dehumidifiers I can plumb in to run off the smart humidity sensor to run when humid gets too high. But not researched that far.
I also went and bought a second car for the garage, so need to sort out storage and work bench better to fit with the two cars.
The second graph above is representation of outside and inside so it is following the outside with a little lag as expected I guess.
I have this week ordered insulation for the roof to control the temp fluctuations (should be enough left over to do the garage doors too), especially with the sun getting stronger and the majority of the roof south facing. I have also ordered stormdry for the outside walls to stop the brick being penetrated by water. And finally the floor will go down too (though can’t afford underfloor heating).
Once all installed I’m going to look at decent dehumidifiers I can plumb in to run off the smart humidity sensor to run when humid gets too high. But not researched that far.
I also went and bought a second car for the garage, so need to sort out storage and work bench better to fit with the two cars.
Looks like it would be around £600 for the under floor heating mat? And the controllers aren't a lot of money either.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/klima-underfloor-heatin...
https://www.screwfix.com/p/klima-underfloor-heatin...
The other really obvious one for humidity is keeping the rain out.
Most garage doors have no threshold and allow rain to run in under the door, which will undo much of what heating and or dehumidifying would do.
When I have a steel frame steel clad garage, it would run under the walls too! Enough that on a cool evening after a warm day it would rain inside!
Most garage doors have no threshold and allow rain to run in under the door, which will undo much of what heating and or dehumidifying would do.
When I have a steel frame steel clad garage, it would run under the walls too! Enough that on a cool evening after a warm day it would rain inside!
ingenieur said:
Looks like it would be around £600 for the under floor heating mat? And the controllers aren't a lot of money either.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/klima-underfloor-heatin...
Looks a nice solution, but would require something on top of that to get it to work and as I have already got a latex screed down on the floor and now going for interlocking PVC tile flooring I'm not sure that works under them - may give them a ring in the week though.https://www.screwfix.com/p/klima-underfloor-heatin...
dhutch said:
The other really obvious one for humidity is keeping the rain out.
Most garage doors have no threshold and allow rain to run in under the door, which will undo much of what heating and or dehumidifying would do.
When I have a steel frame steel clad garage, it would run under the walls too! Enough that on a cool evening after a warm day it would rain inside!
I have been speaking to garadry (https://uk.garadry.com/products/garage-door-seal-15mm) about a door seal underneath as I do see rain coming in underneath as per this pic...Most garage doors have no threshold and allow rain to run in under the door, which will undo much of what heating and or dehumidifying would do.
When I have a steel frame steel clad garage, it would run under the walls too! Enough that on a cool evening after a warm day it would rain inside!
The challenge being as the screed was laid just to the door there is a lip down to the other side meaning it wouldn't be a standard fit due to the drop and it will be hard to then have the bottom flat glued
But I think we have a solution that will mean cutting the garadry just before the highest part to create the protection and fix down the half for each door as shown
That combined with the stormdry masonry protection will hopefully stop water penetrating into the garage to help with humidity - and if it doesn't then at least you can all learn from my trying
80% humidity is not always a problem.
It's a problem if you have metal stuff in the garage which is notably cooler than the air though.
When the outdoors is relatively warm and > 90% humid, you want to seal up your garage and fire up a dehumidifier.
When you've put a lot of wet stuff, e.g. a car into your garage, fire up the dehumidifier unless ventilation is a better answer.
I use a dehumidifier 'when needed' which works out about 8 weeks a year. Rest of the time, a little ventilation is enough.
I can lock my garage door open a couple of inches
Sealing the bottom of the garage door is a good idea, I used a rubber seal glued down to sealed and painted concrete.
At my previous house, I actually made a little slopey bit of cement on the end of the floor slab.
I do some work in my garage and shed, so tend to have some heat in there from time to time. This helps dry things out.
It's a problem if you have metal stuff in the garage which is notably cooler than the air though.
When the outdoors is relatively warm and > 90% humid, you want to seal up your garage and fire up a dehumidifier.
When you've put a lot of wet stuff, e.g. a car into your garage, fire up the dehumidifier unless ventilation is a better answer.
I use a dehumidifier 'when needed' which works out about 8 weeks a year. Rest of the time, a little ventilation is enough.
I can lock my garage door open a couple of inches
Sealing the bottom of the garage door is a good idea, I used a rubber seal glued down to sealed and painted concrete.
At my previous house, I actually made a little slopey bit of cement on the end of the floor slab.
I do some work in my garage and shed, so tend to have some heat in there from time to time. This helps dry things out.
Been a little while as I have been travelling and Easter but have made a bit of progress as follows.
Eventually got more loft flooring sorted and made it a much better upstairs so I can find everything. Plus the extra floor and sorting means I can get nearly everything from the main garage up in the loft to create more area.
This is all down to a new toy for the garage meaning I really need to make it fit two cars comfortably, so out goes racking and coming up with new plan for a work bench down the side and storage for the kitchen stuff.
The next thing was to sort the lighting out, haven’t taken any pictures as nothing exciting but got some 3foot led battens and wired them up. Light is so much better now, this is very temporary till I decide what to do with the ceiling and these won’t be wasted as they will go up into the loft once done.
I have also got the brick protection on. It was quite a messy product to use so I have now storm guarded the front and half the side of the garage (the bit that gets most of the direct rain), also storm guarded bits of the driveway, part of my jeans and my shoes.
There was a bit of damp penetrating on the inside near the door so will be interested to see if this stops that.
And last thing I have sorted is the garadry door seal. Pretty straight forward to fit but you definitely need a sharp knife (resorted to my Xacto instead of a Stanley) as if you don’t cut right in one go you end up with little nicks in the rubber.
And sometimes the random crap you buy off the internet ads came in handy for cutting around the doors.
And we are up to date for now.
Still working out what to do with walls, and tiles have been ordered, sudden change of colour scheme for new toy was needed there.
Eventually got more loft flooring sorted and made it a much better upstairs so I can find everything. Plus the extra floor and sorting means I can get nearly everything from the main garage up in the loft to create more area.
This is all down to a new toy for the garage meaning I really need to make it fit two cars comfortably, so out goes racking and coming up with new plan for a work bench down the side and storage for the kitchen stuff.
The next thing was to sort the lighting out, haven’t taken any pictures as nothing exciting but got some 3foot led battens and wired them up. Light is so much better now, this is very temporary till I decide what to do with the ceiling and these won’t be wasted as they will go up into the loft once done.
I have also got the brick protection on. It was quite a messy product to use so I have now storm guarded the front and half the side of the garage (the bit that gets most of the direct rain), also storm guarded bits of the driveway, part of my jeans and my shoes.
There was a bit of damp penetrating on the inside near the door so will be interested to see if this stops that.
And last thing I have sorted is the garadry door seal. Pretty straight forward to fit but you definitely need a sharp knife (resorted to my Xacto instead of a Stanley) as if you don’t cut right in one go you end up with little nicks in the rubber.
And sometimes the random crap you buy off the internet ads came in handy for cutting around the doors.
And we are up to date for now.
Still working out what to do with walls, and tiles have been ordered, sudden change of colour scheme for new toy was needed there.
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Errrr where are the pics of the new Toy …?
Little sneak preview then... coming to a PH Fleet story soonAnd so I have decided on new tile colour scheme to match the new car colours...
These tiles are from some very helpful lot at Flexi-tile https://flexi-tile.com/products/flexi-tile-7/ and went for the 7mm industrial tile - will talk more once laid them down on the different products I got samples for across ecotile, garage floor tile company, R-tec etc
triggerh4ppy said:
RacingPete said:
Did you not need concrete padstones? Is this ok with that sat on a mortar line like that? RacingPete said:
Who knows... architect thought it was ok - I am no expert so go along with what they say, seems pretty solid so far and is really belt and braces on the existing structure. The breeze blocks are pretty solid too, They were definitely hard to drill into and not sure how much a concrete padstone would add.
Interesting, In the past on a similar project I was told building inspector will definitely not sign off a beam sat directly onto concrete blocks. This may have been a jobsworth, as logically I would have to agree, cant see anything going wrong when its sat on a concrete block anyway.
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Errrr where are the pics of the new Toy …?
Little more detail here on the new toy - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff