Any Structural Engineers about?

[Busamav]

It may well be easier to treat it as one span though .

[Desiato]

Busamav said:

It may well be easier to treat it as one span though .

I would agree with Busamav here, unless you know that the partition wall is load bearing (which it very possibly isn't) then I would treat it as a single span. The beams are fairly small anyway.

Out of interest which way do the ceiling joists run, left to right as we look at the picture?
Is the gable wall slightly forward of the wall below (approx 100mm) with the door and window? No difference to the calculations just being nosy really.

[MuffDaddy]

Whilst we are on the subject of structural engineers, what would you all expect to pay to design and detail the required beams? I'm having the back wall of a 30s semi removed, and one of the internals too (they will T in together.

Current quote is £500 plus VAT. (Bristol area if anyone wants some work).

[iiyama]

Desiato said:

Busamav said:

It may well be easier to treat it as one span though .

I would agree with Busamav here, unless you know that the partition wall is load bearing (which it very possibly isn't) then I would treat it as a single span. The beams are fairly small anyway.

Out of interest which way do the ceiling joists run, left to right as we look at the picture?
Is the gable wall slightly forward of the wall below (approx 100mm) with the door and window? No difference to the calculations just being nosy really.

Figured as much but I like to get things right!

Joists run across the building looking at this elevation. There are two purlins running the length of the building supporting the long roof fall, the upper purlin is a sort of ladder truss, (although the entire original part of the roof is cut and pitch). This ladder is built onto the top of the partition, with struts ruinning out to the lower purlin.

The short roof fall has ties running from plate back to a binder.

Extension to the rear has an timber engineered roof.

[Busamav]

MuffDaddy said:

Current quote is £500 plus VAT. (Bristol area if anyone wants some work).

I would hope you are getting nice offices and PI cover for that , not a homeworker .

I have a flat rate agreed with my engineer and I would expect that to be under £200

Edited by Busamav on Thursday 19th August 19:12

[Johnniem]

Busamav said:

MuffDaddy said:

Current quote is £500 plus VAT. (Bristol area if anyone wants some work).

I would hope you are getting nice offices and PI cover for that , not a homeworker .

I have a flat rate agreed with my engineer and I would expect that to be under £200

Edited by Busamav on Thursday 19th August 19:12

Given that the engineer has to inspect, calculate the beam and produce a drawing for building control £200 seems extremely low for a fully qualified engineer (with PI, homeworker or not) Having said that for the regional consultants £500 could well be too high. I'd bank on £50-£75 an hour for a reasonable engineer. Most good engineers could probably tell the OP exactly what he needs by looking at the basic structure but he will still have to prove it for the purposes of building control. Doing this stuff on the cheap by by-passing usual regs is always going to lead to disaster. Good luck OP!

[camp freddie]

Johnniem said:

Given that the engineer has to inspect, calculate the beam and produce a drawing for building control £200 seems extremely low for a fully qualified engineer (with PI, homeworker or not)

I disagree. I carry £5million PI cover, am fully qualified and could knock out two simple beams within an hour. If existing and proposed floor plans are provided, along with elevations and span directions of floor joists, there is no reason to charge anymore or even visit site. Assuming the average engineer is charged out at £60/ hr, as per most practices, then we are assuming it'll take the engineer a day to design two simple beams and mark them on the architects layout for building control approval.

Edited by camp freddie on Friday 20th August 09:38

Edited by camp freddie on Friday 20th August 09:39

[Johnniem]

camp freddie said:

Johnniem said:

Given that the engineer has to inspect, calculate the beam and produce a drawing for building control £200 seems extremely low for a fully qualified engineer (with PI, homeworker or not)

I disagree. I carry £5million PI cover, am fully qualified and could knock out two simple beams within an hour. If existing and proposed floor plans are provided, along with elevations and span directions of floor joists, there is no reason to charge anymore or even visit site. Assuming the average engineer is charged out at £60/ hr, as per most practices, then we are assuming it'll take the engineer a day to design two simple beams and mark them on the architects layout for building control approval.

Edited by camp freddie on Friday 20th August 09:38

Edited by camp freddie on Friday 20th August 09:39

Disagree with what CF? £500 too high or £200 too low? A day's work at £60 per hour is, even on a 'long lunch day', going to be £420, yes? I was a bit shocked that you would give advice about a structure without visiting site (my PI would have kittens!) but I suppose, on relfection, there could be heavily caveated advice given to clients with prior knowledge. How's business by the way? Have just put a lot on my bottom line for this and next year, in three large refurbishment projects (phew!).

[Busamav]

Johnniem said:

Doing this stuff on the cheap by by-passing usual regs is always going to lead to disaster. Good luck OP!

I did not and never would suggest anybody would should ever do that .

My engineer gets regular work from me , on a weekly basis so we have a fee structure that works for both parties. We all know how long it takes to do a few beam calcs

Very seldomly does he have to visit site , I only send him along when things are looking a tad tricky or when consideration has to be given to other elements of the structure , normally when the building has been knocked about previously .

[Johnniem]

Busamav said:

Johnniem said:

Doing this stuff on the cheap by by-passing usual regs is always going to lead to disaster. Good luck OP!

I did not and never would suggest anybody would should ever do that .

My engineer gets regular work from me , on a weekly basis so we have a fee structure that works for both parties. We all know how long it takes to do a few beam calcs

Very seldomly does he have to visit site , I only send him along when things are looking a tad tricky or when consideration has to be given to other elements of the structure , normally when the building has been knocked about previously .

Busamav, I think you have misunderstood. I was answering the question as to whether £500 was too big as a fee. My last sentence was pointed at the fact that there may be an intention to do the works without the knowledge of the local authority. I certainly wouldn't rely on someone on the internet to design a beam on an unseen property with unknown construction or loadings. Maybe the OP also doesn't intend to do that but he hasn't responsed to eps's (or my) original question so we just can't tell. My comment was not directed at you. I don't know any construction professionals that are stupid enough to provide advice based on what someone unknown to them tells them what a building is like. It would be professional suicide. Presumptions are fine if the client is known to you and you work together a lot.

[Busamav]

my error

[MuffDaddy]

Not planning on avoiding regs at all, it just seems to me that £500 is a little steep. However I do appreciate the need for the calcs to be correct.

[andy43]

I'm going to be really cheeky and bump this - we're in the process of building and need one calc for one extra steel - I asked the engineer a while ago ago but he's stacked out and freely admitted he might not get to my request this week.
We're going to need to know possibly monday depending on the bricklayer, who seems to work faster when he knows we're waiting on stuff
Anyone help with a quick calc? Beer tokens available
PM me if you can help. TIA

[Si 330]

andy43 said:

I'm going to be really cheeky and bump this - we're in the process of building and need one calc for one extra steel - I asked the engineer a while ago ago but he's stacked out and freely admitted he might not get to my request this week.
We're going to need to know possibly monday depending on the bricklayer, who seems to work faster when he knows we're waiting on stuff
Anyone help with a quick calc? Beer tokens available
PM me if you can help. TIA

you have mail

[andy43]

Ta muchly for all the PMs - the power of PH
All sorted - should hopefully be specc'd tomorrow.
Thankyou all