what have i let my self in for? first question
Discussion
ive just bought my first house. well i get the keys on friday so quite excited. even if it did mean selling my beloved M3 
its a 3 bed end terrace built around 1887.
BUT to say that it needs some work is ummmmm. well you get the idea. i dont think it has been touched since the late 40's 50's
now im not to fussed about this because i can do and have done most of this work in the past just not on this scale.
so my first job is to get some heat in the place. currently provided by a gas fired rayburn in the kitchen and fire places in every room. so no rads or pipes etc. which leads me to my first question of what im sure will be meny.
i have done a bit of plumbing in the past but allways on existing system ie soldered copper pipe and compression fittings.
but in this case as there is nothing i was thinking a combi system using this new style plastic pipe
looks a lot easier to fit what are your thoughts ? on this type of piping and recommend a boiler?
bit long winded sorry.
ill try and get some pics up when i get the keys if anyone is interested in the progress.
its a 3 bed end terrace built around 1887.
BUT to say that it needs some work is ummmmm. well you get the idea. i dont think it has been touched since the late 40's 50's
now im not to fussed about this because i can do and have done most of this work in the past just not on this scale.
so my first job is to get some heat in the place. currently provided by a gas fired rayburn in the kitchen and fire places in every room. so no rads or pipes etc. which leads me to my first question of what im sure will be meny.
i have done a bit of plumbing in the past but allways on existing system ie soldered copper pipe and compression fittings.
but in this case as there is nothing i was thinking a combi system using this new style plastic pipe
looks a lot easier to fit what are your thoughts ? on this type of piping and recommend a boiler?
bit long winded sorry.
ill try and get some pics up when i get the keys if anyone is interested in the progress.
I had put in a combi boiler with hot water and radiator system all linked by plastic pipes. Thiswas in a ground floor flat, with concrete and wooden floors, so pipes run outside of skirting boards, then blocked in. Since installation 6-7 years ago, installation was carried out within a day, and since then have had no leaks or other problems with plumbing
We had a Baxi boiler fitted a couple of years ago and have had no real problems with it. I hear lots of good things about Bosch Worcester boilers.
If you can afford it i'd use copper piping all the way! There is countless threads on here about push fit connections etc and using plastic piping.
Good luck
If you can afford it i'd use copper piping all the way! There is countless threads on here about push fit connections etc and using plastic piping.
Good luck
I've seen the of whole new build houses run in 99% plastic pipe with pushfit fittings.
I say 99%, because before you run the whole lot in plastic, the first meter from the boiler has to be copper.
I personally think plastic can be used but only where it is not seen. I think any pipework on show should be copper. It's your house at the end of the day though.
Get a plumber to install the boiler. You'll need it to be signed off by a Gas Safe registered plumber as it is, and not many will want to come and check over all of your work to the extent that they'll be happy to put their name to it when signing it off.
You could always hang and pipe up all of the rads, then get a plumber in to install the boiler and tie up the loose ends.
I say 99%, because before you run the whole lot in plastic, the first meter from the boiler has to be copper.
I personally think plastic can be used but only where it is not seen. I think any pipework on show should be copper. It's your house at the end of the day though.
Get a plumber to install the boiler. You'll need it to be signed off by a Gas Safe registered plumber as it is, and not many will want to come and check over all of your work to the extent that they'll be happy to put their name to it when signing it off.
You could always hang and pipe up all of the rads, then get a plumber in to install the boiler and tie up the loose ends.
Edited by Gingerbread Man on Wednesday 1st December 22:26
Your best bet might be to buy a heatpack containing boiler, radiators, piping, valves etc and get someone else to fit it.
You may want to offer your services as a labourer if you want to keep the costs down but the signing off of the installation, the comissioning and testing etc should ALLWAYS be done by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Your new boiler will have to be registered too.
I would get rid of the gas fires if I was you. They cost loads to run and although can be prety to look at they can be a nightmare.
You may want to offer your services as a labourer if you want to keep the costs down but the signing off of the installation, the comissioning and testing etc should ALLWAYS be done by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Your new boiler will have to be registered too.
I would get rid of the gas fires if I was you. They cost loads to run and although can be prety to look at they can be a nightmare.
Edited by Leve Lad on Wednesday 1st December 22:02
Leve Lad said:
Your best bet might be to buy a heatpack containing boiler, radiators, piping, valves etc and get someone else to fit it.
You may want to offer your services as a labourer if you want to keep the costs down but the signing off of the installation, the comissioning and testing etc should ALLWAYS be done by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Your new boiler will have to be registered too.
I would get rid of the gas fires if I was you. They cost loads to run and although can be prety to look at they can be a nightmare.
i will of corse be getting a "gas safe guy" to fit the supply and commision but the water side im sure i can deal with.You may want to offer your services as a labourer if you want to keep the costs down but the signing off of the installation, the comissioning and testing etc should ALLWAYS be done by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Your new boiler will have to be registered too.
I would get rid of the gas fires if I was you. They cost loads to run and although can be prety to look at they can be a nightmare.
Edited by Leve Lad on Wednesday 1st December 22:02
and as for fires, gas? that would be nice i ment open fire places in every room.
Your house sounds very similar to mine. I've got an 1882 three bed end of terrace house. Before you worry too much about central heating I'd recommend that you look closely at draught proofing and insulation. I did the same as you and fitted a new boiler and radiators as soon as I moved in but I found the central heating to be too expensive to use much in the end. The house is so bad at retaining warmth that the heating never seemed to hit temperature and turn off. I now just heat the lounge with a log burning stove and let the rest of the house get cold!
That point aside, personally I've always gone for copper pipework. I just prefer the security of a soldered joint particularly when hidden under floorboards or behind skirting boards. Copper is also going to look far better anywhere where it's visible. In reality there's probably no reason why plastic wouldn't be fine though, after all I guess that most new build modern houses are plumbed up with it these days.
That point aside, personally I've always gone for copper pipework. I just prefer the security of a soldered joint particularly when hidden under floorboards or behind skirting boards. Copper is also going to look far better anywhere where it's visible. In reality there's probably no reason why plastic wouldn't be fine though, after all I guess that most new build modern houses are plumbed up with it these days.
hoppo4.2 said:
Leve Lad said:
Your best bet might be to buy a heatpack containing boiler, radiators, piping, valves etc and get someone else to fit it.
You may want to offer your services as a labourer if you want to keep the costs down but the signing off of the installation, the comissioning and testing etc should ALLWAYS be done by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Your new boiler will have to be registered too.
I would get rid of the gas fires if I was you. They cost loads to run and although can be prety to look at they can be a nightmare.
i will of corse be getting a "gas safe guy" to fit the supply and commision but the water side im sure i can deal with.You may want to offer your services as a labourer if you want to keep the costs down but the signing off of the installation, the comissioning and testing etc should ALLWAYS be done by a Gas Safe registered engineer. Your new boiler will have to be registered too.
I would get rid of the gas fires if I was you. They cost loads to run and although can be prety to look at they can be a nightmare.
Edited by Leve Lad on Wednesday 1st December 22:02
and as for fires, gas? that would be nice i ment open fire places in every room.
the place is going to need replastering throughout i was considering using fome backed plaster board.
to aid insulation when i get round that job.
also the loft was converted way back about 1930 i think. the walls up there area stud covered in toung and grove. i intend to replace with plaster board and im willing to bet theres no sign of insulation behind there.
the windows are prity shot so will also be getting replaced at some point soon.
as for the wood burner i like the sound of that.
for now i will check the chimneys and light a fire where im working i think. at least while its this cold!
i may even look at fireing up the old rayburn for some heat and hot water but i guess its not been used in at least 10 years. so as its gas think i best get some one to have a look first. cant use it for long though as the chimney it vents through is going to have to come down. (before it falls)
to aid insulation when i get round that job.
also the loft was converted way back about 1930 i think. the walls up there area stud covered in toung and grove. i intend to replace with plaster board and im willing to bet theres no sign of insulation behind there.
the windows are prity shot so will also be getting replaced at some point soon.
as for the wood burner i like the sound of that.
for now i will check the chimneys and light a fire where im working i think. at least while its this cold!
i may even look at fireing up the old rayburn for some heat and hot water but i guess its not been used in at least 10 years. so as its gas think i best get some one to have a look first. cant use it for long though as the chimney it vents through is going to have to come down. (before it falls)
You need to decide what type of hot water system you want first.
Combis are easy and straight forward but when things are cold then the temperature of the hot water is low - they only raise the temperature of the incoming cold supply.
Cylinders need more room. Unvented systems need flow and pressure, Indirect systems need space for storage tanks.
You need to speak to a local (Gas Safe) plumber to discuss the options available to you.
You'll need to know what you plan to do to the home too. Are you going to add an en-suite or extend into the loft.
All these things need to be considered to make sure you get the right system installed.
Oh, if the house hasn't been touch for 60-years then I expect the electrics will need some work before the heating goes in. I'd recommend you sort this before the Wiring Regs are revised next year (for England and Wales) and RCBO's become a requirement instantly adding £500 of parts to a new consumer unit.
Combis are easy and straight forward but when things are cold then the temperature of the hot water is low - they only raise the temperature of the incoming cold supply.
Cylinders need more room. Unvented systems need flow and pressure, Indirect systems need space for storage tanks.
You need to speak to a local (Gas Safe) plumber to discuss the options available to you.
You'll need to know what you plan to do to the home too. Are you going to add an en-suite or extend into the loft.
All these things need to be considered to make sure you get the right system installed.
Oh, if the house hasn't been touch for 60-years then I expect the electrics will need some work before the heating goes in. I'd recommend you sort this before the Wiring Regs are revised next year (for England and Wales) and RCBO's become a requirement instantly adding £500 of parts to a new consumer unit.
Does the rayburn have a boiler in it? If so you just need pipes, rads and a pump. Gets you up and running whilst you sort out the combi. You can also have it running off of both so combi runs in the summer and the rayburn does it in the winter, especially economic if you have access to free fuel!
mrsxllifts said:
Does the rayburn have a boiler in it? If so you just need pipes, rads and a pump. Gets you up and running whilst you sort out the combi. You can also have it running off of both so combi runs in the summer and the rayburn does it in the winter, especially economic if you have access to free fuel!
the rayburn is gas fired. i cant see it's going to be cheap to run. mk1fan said:
Combis are easy and straight forward but when things are cold then the temperature of the hot water is low - they only raise the temperature of the incoming cold supply.
Eh? My hot water is at the same temperature summer or winter and my combi is one of the smaller ones on the market. It may work harder in the winter when the incoming water is colder, but the temperature of the hot water it produces never changes.Dont get a combi boiler whatever you do.
OK in summer but in Winter the shower will have to be on maximum hot and then it wont be hot enough. Forget it if the washing machine is on or someone flushes the bog / runs the sink downstairs. The bath will take about 1/2 hour to fill. I've just moved house and what a relief when I saw the new house had a hot water tank. This was a Baxi 80 combi not that old in a smallish 3 bed cottage with only 2 people living in it.
OK in summer but in Winter the shower will have to be on maximum hot and then it wont be hot enough. Forget it if the washing machine is on or someone flushes the bog / runs the sink downstairs. The bath will take about 1/2 hour to fill. I've just moved house and what a relief when I saw the new house had a hot water tank. This was a Baxi 80 combi not that old in a smallish 3 bed cottage with only 2 people living in it.
Vron said:
Dont get a combi boiler whatever you do.
OK in summer but in Winter the shower will have to be on maximum hot and then it wont be hot enough. Forget it if the washing machine is on or someone flushes the bog / runs the sink downstairs. The bath will take about 1/2 hour to fill. I've just moved house and what a relief when I saw the new house had a hot water tank. This was a Baxi 80 combi not that old in a smallish 3 bed cottage with only 2 people living in it.
Dont think you'll find all combis are like that.OK in summer but in Winter the shower will have to be on maximum hot and then it wont be hot enough. Forget it if the washing machine is on or someone flushes the bog / runs the sink downstairs. The bath will take about 1/2 hour to fill. I've just moved house and what a relief when I saw the new house had a hot water tank. This was a Baxi 80 combi not that old in a smallish 3 bed cottage with only 2 people living in it.
Spudler said:
Vron said:
Dont get a combi boiler whatever you do.
OK in summer but in Winter the shower will have to be on maximum hot and then it wont be hot enough. Forget it if the washing machine is on or someone flushes the bog / runs the sink downstairs. The bath will take about 1/2 hour to fill. I've just moved house and what a relief when I saw the new house had a hot water tank. This was a Baxi 80 combi not that old in a smallish 3 bed cottage with only 2 people living in it.
Dont think you'll find all combis are like that.OK in summer but in Winter the shower will have to be on maximum hot and then it wont be hot enough. Forget it if the washing machine is on or someone flushes the bog / runs the sink downstairs. The bath will take about 1/2 hour to fill. I've just moved house and what a relief when I saw the new house had a hot water tank. This was a Baxi 80 combi not that old in a smallish 3 bed cottage with only 2 people living in it.
There are good combis and bad combis, and equally important good installers and complete muppets.
A good quality combi installed by a good installer will do all you want it to do for many years.
However, they do need maintenance which is rarely done as well as servicing of the motor, and just as surely leads to problems.
The Baxi 80 combi has not been made for at least a decade, so the boiler you had was not exactly new either.
A good quality combi installed by a good installer will do all you want it to do for many years.
However, they do need maintenance which is rarely done as well as servicing of the motor, and just as surely leads to problems.
The Baxi 80 combi has not been made for at least a decade, so the boiler you had was not exactly new either.
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