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otolith

25,285 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
VoziKaoFangio said:
The wind has a habit of diluting and redistributing them. That doesn't happen to cat excrement. I suppose I should be slightly thankful of that, thinking about it - the redistributing bit, anyway!
Well there you go. There are lots of people (not me, by the way) who think that you should be prevented from doing that. Luckily, we live in a (relatively) free society.

Alfanatic

6,520 posts

103 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
VoziKaoFangio said:
Alfanatic said:
VoziKaoFangio said:
otolith said:
There are people who object to the exhaust emissions of your cars just as strongly (and perhaps with greater cause) as you object to cat emissions. Will you be getting rid of your cars, or do you selfishly not give a damn about those people?
You may have a point if I parked my car in their back gardens and revved the engine until their plants went black. I don't, so you don't.
Wrong. The point is that someone is offended by the fact that you use a car. The bit that they find offensive bit doesn't have to emulate the properties and impact of foreign cat poo to be relevant.
In the confines of this debate, the car comparison fails utterly and is totally irrelevant. It is not a comparable issue, for many reasons. We are talking here about the invasion and abuse of private property. General car ownership, whilst obviously offensive to some, does not come under this category.
We are not talking about deliberate vandalism by a person responsible for their own actions in law, we are talking about cat poo. The reason we are talking about it is because it offends someone who feels they should not have to live with it, and on that level it is directly comparable to car ownership.

oldnbold

564 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
Alfanatic said:
VoziKaoFangio said:
Alfanatic said:
VoziKaoFangio said:
otolith said:
There are people who object to the exhaust emissions of your cars just as strongly (and perhaps with greater cause) as you object to cat emissions. Will you be getting rid of your cars, or do you selfishly not give a damn about those people?
You may have a point if I parked my car in their back gardens and revved the engine until their plants went black. I don't, so you don't.
Wrong. The point is that someone is offended by the fact that you use a car. The bit that they find offensive bit doesn't have to emulate the properties and impact of foreign cat poo to be relevant.
In the confines of this debate, the car comparison fails utterly and is totally irrelevant. It is not a comparable issue, for many reasons. We are talking here about the invasion and abuse of private property. General car ownership, whilst obviously offensive to some, does not come under this category.
We are not talking about deliberate vandalism by a person responsible for their own actions in law, we are talking about cat poo. The reason we are talking about it is because it offends someone who feels they should not have to live with it, and on that level it is directly comparable to car ownership.
No wrong. We are talking about cat pooh on a persons private property. I have no objection to cats craping out on the road, in woods or on grass verges. Just not my garden

VoziKaoFangio

1,197 posts

35 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
Alfanatic said:
We are not talking about deliberate vandalism by a person responsible for their own actions in law, we are talking about cat poo.
Jesus. We are talking about cat poo, yes, but in the garden of someone who doesn't want it specifically in their garden, their private property. Read the OP. It's about cat's defiling his private property. In no way is this comparable to driving a car up a public road.

Public/private. See the difference? And before anyone starts waffling about air pollution from cars, the air is a public resource. I am offended by people having bonfires in urban areas, but it's nothing like the imposition of having someone's pet, for which the owner should be fully responsible, wandering in to my garden and defecating on plants which I grow to use for food.

Munter

25,057 posts

125 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
VoziKaoFangio said:
Jesus. We are talking about cat poo, yes, but in the garden of someone who doesn't want it specifically in their garden, their private property. Read the OP. It's about cat's defiling his private property. In no way is this comparable to driving a car up a public road.
<devils avacado> How fking dare you drive past my house/tent and pollute the air that comes through my window/tent door. Now I have to breath air polluted by your pointless fking car. Are you too fking lazy to walk or cycle. You don't see me getting off my hemp sofa and walking around to your front door to take a big lentil powered fart do you. So stop using your car to pollute the air I have to breath. Cocktard.

If anything I think we all agree the cat poo can be in the garden and not affect the health of the planet. While some argue that the car is doing irreparable damage to ALL the air in our private properties, the car is worse than cats.</devils avacardo>
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Alfanatic

6,520 posts

103 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
VoziKaoFangio said:
Alfanatic said:
We are not talking about deliberate vandalism by a person responsible for their own actions in law, we are talking about cat poo.
Jesus. We are talking about cat poo, yes, but in the garden of someone who doesn't want it specifically in their garden, their private property. Read the OP. It's about cat's defiling his private property. In no way is this comparable to driving a car up a public road.

Public/private. See the difference? And before anyone starts waffling about air pollution from cars, the air is a public resource. I am offended by people having bonfires in urban areas, but it's nothing like the imposition of having someone's pet, for which the owner should be fully responsible, wandering in to my garden and defecating on plants which I grow to use for food.
I know it's about cat poo. The car reference is about where an intolerant attitude to it fits into the big picture. You can't see that someone might find your car, choice of clothing, choice of music, working hours or whatever just as imposing as you find cat poo? Just because you judge them at a particular level doesn't mean everyone does.

oldnbold

564 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
I have to say I am basically an animal lover and would't personally harm any animal. But if the attitude of the pro cat contributors on here are representatve of all cat owners, I can now see why people like my neighbour take matters into there own hands.

He shot 2 cats that continually came into his newly landscaped garden and craped everwere as I said on an earlier post. This incident brought this exact arguement up within the comminity, and several people admitted that over the years they had "removed" the problem. One neighbour who has a friend who is a truck driver stated that the trucker had taken a problem cat with him to work a couple of times and dropped it of a couple of hundred of miles from home.

Whilst I in no way condone these actions, as long as cat owners bury there heads in the sand and say "its not a problem" there will be people who take these exteme actions.

otolith

25,285 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
Those people are what we call "criminals". Like those people who don't like cars parked on the street and respond by keying them or slashing the tyres.

oldnbold

564 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
Those people are what we call "criminals". Like those people who don't like cars parked on the street and respond by keying them or slashing the tyres.
Yes your right, however if someone parked on your drive every couple of days, what would you do. They are not commiting a criminal offence so the BiB would have no interest. It would upset you I guess and cause you inconvience just like cats do to other people

Simpo Two

59,501 posts

149 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
Good luck to the first person who removes all inconveniences from his life.

But then what will he do with his time?

otolith

25,285 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
If I had a problem with someone parking on my drive, I would physically block access.

Note, however, that although it is difficult and expensive to enforce, someone parking on my drive does commit civil trespass - they are breaking the law. If their cat strays into my garden, they are not.

oldnbold

564 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
If I had a problem with someone parking on my drive, I would physically block access.

Note, however, that although it is difficult and expensive to enforce, someone parking on my drive does commit civil trespass - they are breaking the law. If their cat strays into my garden, they are not.
So basically what you are saying is, so long as its not a criminal or civil offence you will do what the bloody hell you like, and stuff anyone else. Nice attitude

otolith

25,285 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
oldnbold said:
So basically what you are saying is, so long as its not a criminal or civil offence you will do what the bloody hell you like, and stuff anyone else. Nice attitude
No, what I am saying is that if what someone is doing is entirely within their legal rights, I have no right to expect them not to do it just because I don't like it. That's how the rule of law works.

oldnbold

564 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
oldnbold said:
So basically what you are saying is, so long as its not a criminal or civil offence you will do what the bloody hell you like, and stuff anyone else. Nice attitude
No, what I am saying is that if what someone is doing is entirely within their legal rights, I have no right to expect them not to do it just because I don't like it. That's how the rule of law works.
You seem to be fixated by laws. I certainly believe in taking the opinions and feelings of others into consideration in relation to actions that I take or don't take irespective if a law applies or not.

A few years ago a neighbour of ours used to leave for work at about 05.30 and let his dog into the garden as he went. The dog would then bark on and off for about an hour, waking all of the near neighbours up.

I went other and had a polite chat, he hadn't realised his dog was barking but afterwards modified his actions to get along with others. Its called consideration for others. Thats how a civilised society works!

otolith

25,285 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
Yes, but you didn't ask him to get rid of his dog, did you? Apart from not owning cats at all, what do you suggest people do?

oldnbold

564 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
Yes, but you didn't ask him to get rid of his dog, did you? Apart from not owning cats at all, what do you suggest people do?
Keep them in, properly fence your garden,fences are available to do this read back in this thread., take them walkies on leads like they have to in other countries.
Simples

bexVN

10,793 posts

95 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
Ok how about this!!!!!

I am a responsible cat owner, I have litter trays, 2 of my cats hardly ever go out. When I first moved in I introduced my self, explained I had cats and stressed to them to tell me if they thought my cats were causing a problem to them.

I have re iterated this several times....and yet I find out by accident that one of my neighbours is unhappy because my cat may have been in her garden recently (though there are 2 new ones in the area so very likely them!)

I feel that I HAVE done my bit but I can only do it if the neighbours work with me.

Quite honestly this thread has just been done to death, no one will agree, everyone will think they're right but it's never going to be black and white!!!

otolith

25,285 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
oldnbold said:
otolith said:
Yes, but you didn't ask him to get rid of his dog, did you? Apart from not owning cats at all, what do you suggest people do?
Keep them in, properly fence your garden,fences are available to do this read back in this thread., take them walkies on leads like they have to in other countries.
Simples
You still don't understand that a cat is not a dog, do you? Dogs like being walked on leads. Cats don't. Dogs don't climb trees or spend hours sleeping on the shed roof.

Fencing in is impractical, turning your entire garden into a cage would not get planning permission, would be an eyesore and in many cases would provide too little space for the cat to roam.

Keeping a cat indoors is - in my opinion - cruel.

oldnbold

564 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
bexVN said:
Ok how about this!!!!!

I am a responsible cat owner, I have litter trays, 2 of my cats hardly ever go out. When I first moved in I introduced my self, explained I had cats and stressed to them to tell me if they thought my cats were causing a problem to them.

I have re iterated this several times....and yet I find out by accident that one of my neighbours is unhappy because my cat may have been in her garden recently (though there are 2 new ones in the area so very likely them!)

I feel that I HAVE done my bit but I can only do it if the neighbours work with me.

Quite honestly this thread has just been done to death, no one will agree, everyone will think they're right but it's never going to be black and white!!!
Well bexVN you have just restored my opinion in cat owners, as you say you've been more than reasonable, and I think that is all that the original OP and the rest of us who have a problem with cats crapping on our property or walking on our cars wanted.

oldnbold

564 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
You still don't understand that a cat is not a dog, do you? Dogs like being walked on leads. Cats don't. Dogs don't climb trees or spend hours sleeping on the shed roof.

Fencing in is impractical, turning your entire garden into a cage would not get planning permission, would be an eyesore and in many cases would provide too little space for the cat to roam.

Keeping a cat indoors is - in my opinion - cruel.
Dogs generally don't like walking on leads they have to be trained which takes time and effort by the owner, why does Tiddles have to sleep on the shed roof as opposed to your living room floor.

Dogs don't like being kept in any more than cats do, but if left to roam they would cause a simular problem, indeed 30 or so years ago this was the case. Over the years it has become socially unacceptable to allow your dog to roam or foul in public places (never mind private ones)
As you are so fond of laws perhaps its about time they were imposed here as in other countries.

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